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Author Topic: Democracy is Fundamentally Wrong  (Read 712 times)

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Offline Joseantoniano

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Democracy is Fundamentally Wrong
« on: July 31, 2019, 12:49:51 AM »
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  • If there's anything I've learned about ghosts from movies, it's like this-

    the ghost remains on earth because it has unfinished business on earth and cannot leave the earth until some good samaritan from among the humans comes along and helps resolve the ghost's unfinished business and then the ghost happily leaves the earth and moves into... wherever the ghost is headed.

    Now, in the same way, there are ghosts waiting for us to come along and help us resolve their unfinished business when it comes to the US revolution.

    The fact is, the ghosts will quit haunting us and leave us alone once we acknowledge that the US revolution was wrong and that the "patriots" had no right to revolt against Britain.

    I hope I don't have to tell you that the revolution was directed by Freemasons. Hopefully that's already old news to you.

    So what was the point of the Freemasonic revolution? Were they killing people and terrorizing loyalists due to some taxes which were less than what we pay now?

    There is a direct line from George Washington to Vladimir Lenin. If 100 people deny that, it won't make it any less true.

    Washington was the Lenin of his day. The revolution against England was a step towards the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr just as ʝʊdɛօ-Bolshevism was.

    Whatever the right response to our day's issues is- it is a prerequisite that we free the ghosts by recognizing that the US revolution was wrong and that democracy was wrong.

    I saw someone talking about how we can change things within our democracy.

    No, it is not right that we should change things within our system. The state of things is not a bug within the system but a feature- it is inherent to the system.

    The solution cannot be within the system. The problem is not a glitch within the system but within the nature of the system itself.

    I am not a Marxist and I am not proposing an overturning of the system.

    Were things to be corrected, it would necessitate an overturning of the system but I am not proposing such an overturning.

    I am not proposing that things be corrected (not on a social scale).

    Anyone that thinks that things in a societal scale can be corrected... I think they're well-intentioned but mistaken.

    I think things will only get worse on a social level (but much good is possible on smaller scales).

    My point is therefore not that workers of the world unite and overturn the system because they have only their chains to lose... I am not advocating that...

    my point is that ideally you should on an intellectual level understand that democracy is fundamentally wrong and that really fixing things would necessitate the fundamental change of overturning the system and eliminating democracy.

    Again- I don't think fixing society will happen. The Antichrist will rule over all peoples. No nation will win, as far as I'm aware.

    Now what would be the correct system were democracy to be overturned?

    The best model we have is Francoist Spain, I believe. However, Francoism was specifically geared for Spain so the model for another nation would have to be specifically geared for that nation.

    I say this so you can have a sense of what things moving in the right direction would look like. However, things are headed downhill for society (but not necessarily for individuals). There is no saving society, I believe. I hope I'm proven wrong but I doubt I'll be proven wrong.


    Offline rosenley

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    Re: Democracy is Fundamentally Wrong
    « Reply #1 on: July 31, 2019, 01:56:28 AM »
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  • Very well done. (Although, I do slightly disagree regarding the best alternative example to democracy being Francoist Spain.) 

    If I had to add one thing, it would be that the system itself dehumanizes those that deny the system. This seems self-evident, but it makes less sense when the entire predicate of democracy is the absolute equality of all constituents. Trying to change the system of democracy democratically is impossible and requires fighting an uphill battle. As you said, we're best to throw the entire system out and strive for a Godly society that emphasizes hierarchy and moral order. 
    "If the Revolution is disorder, the Counter-Revolution is the restoration of order. And by order we mean the peace of Christ in the Reign of Christ, that is, Christian civilization, austere and hierarchical, fundamentally sacral, antiegalitarian, and antiliberal." - Dr. Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira


    Offline richard

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    Re: Democracy is Fundamentally Wrong
    « Reply #2 on: July 31, 2019, 04:16:52 AM »
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  • Ok, I agree that democracy, also known as mob rule, is wrong. The U.S. is a constitutional republic which has disintegrated into a system of rule by oligarchs or special interest but the thought of never revolting from Great Britain and being ruled by the system they now have and with the current "monarch" on the throne is revolting to me. 

    Offline Joseantoniano

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    Re: Democracy is Fundamentally Wrong
    « Reply #3 on: July 31, 2019, 07:03:48 AM »
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  • Very well done. (Although, I do slightly disagree regarding the best alternative example to democracy being Francoist Spain.)

    If I had to add one thing, it would be that the system itself dehumanizes those that deny the system. This seems self-evident, but it makes less sense when the entire predicate of democracy is the absolute equality of all constituents. Trying to change the system of democracy democratically is impossible and requires fighting an uphill battle. As you said, we're best to throw the entire system out and strive for a Godly society that emphasizes hierarchy and moral order.

    "As they say in the United States: 'to be different is to be indecent'. The mass crushes beneath it everything that is different, everything 
    that is excellent, individual, qualified and select. Anybody who is not like everybody, who does not think like everybody, runs the risk of being eliminated."
    -José Ortega y Gasset, Revolt of the Masses (translated from the Spanish)

    I don't know if the people in the United States really used to say "to be different it to be indecent" (Ortega y Gasset was writing in the 1920's, if I remember correctly) but it's interesting that he made that sort of association with the United States.

    Whether we realize it or not, the United States is to democracy what the Soviet Union was to Communism.

    Anyways, I cite that book because what you described reminded me of that quote (specifically "the mass crushes beneath it...").

    I agree entirely with what you said (except of course we have a difference of opinion on Francoist Spain).

    Btw if anyone has a vague intuition that democracy is not such a great system- Revolt of the Masses articulates very well why democracy is a horrible system and I think can help a person to understand why democracy is not so great and to overcome a sense that they are committing some kind of crime if they question it.

    What are your thoughts on Francoist Spain and what would you consider as alternative models (or just "model" in the singular")?

    Offline Joseantoniano

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    Re: Democracy is Fundamentally Wrong
    « Reply #4 on: July 31, 2019, 07:27:27 AM »
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  • Ok, I agree that democracy, also known as mob rule, is wrong. The U.S. is a constitutional republic which has disintegrated into a system of rule by oligarchs or special interest but the thought of never revolting from Great Britain and being ruled by the system they now have and with the current "monarch" on the throne is revolting to me.
    I think there's a slight sort of outrage on your part.

    "Ok"..... like you're making a concession and wishing to hold back.... and then "revolting".

    I understand- to question democracy is "unAmerican". It's like saying you hate Jesus and apple pie. In fact, from a social standpoint it's sort of worse in how it's seen- these days it's perfectly accepted to hate Jesus.... but to question democracy.... now that is beyond the pale.... allegedly.

    I understand- on some level, people think it's a sin to question democracy. Democracy is not supposed to be questioned, it's seen as being immoral and sort of like a blasphemy. To openly question democracy is to have basically committed an act of treason and I should be hanged, from a certain standpoint.

    The United States is not like, say.... Japan. The United States is not an organic thing in the way that Japan is- or even, say, England. The English people really are from England, the Japanese really are from Japan.

    Japan wasn't created by a revolution, England wasn't created by a revolution. The Japanese are one people, the English are one people.

    The United States is a sort of melting pot of a bunch of different peoples. The United States is a sort of artificial creation in a sense- I say that as an observation, not as a criticism.

    The US people are not held together by a common heritage in the way that Japanese, English or Spanish are.

    The.... sort of basis..... the sort of foundation- is belief in democracy.

    Democracy is the sort of foundation of the people's identity as a people. To question democracy is to question our very identity as a nation.

    Now, some people might say "well we're actually a constitutional republic"..... I don't think "republic" really tells us much..... we're not living in the system of Plato's Republic..... at least not entirely in a literal sense.... maybe in spirit but not to the letter......
    the system of the USSR.... you could say it was Communism, socialism, "state capitalism," "not-real-Communism," whatever you want to call it... whatever you want to call it, it's the same system.

    The basis of the nation's identity is "democracy"- Wilson didn't talk about "making the world safe for constitutional republics," Bush didn't talk about bringing "constitutional republics" to the Middle East. The name of our common creed is Democracy. I know the scientific name may be "constitutional republic" or whatever.... however, what you call it doesn't really matter..... it's not as though we're being ruled by Plato's class of Guardians and there are no elections. Whether we call our system "democracy," "constitutional republic," "not-real-democracy", doesn't really matter. Whatever you call a rose it's still the same flower.

    I talked about events that took place around 1776 and didn't say anything about us being ruled by the UK's monarchy in 2019. That comment was part of a sort of visceral reaction, I believe, to someone like myself having the nerve to question democracy rather than shut up, be thankful I don't live in North Korea and not question democracy.

    Nevertheless, as much as questioning democracy is a taboo and engaging in questioning it may be seen as implying that I "hate America", am "unAmerican," unpatriotic and need to pack my bags and go to North Korea or some other foreign country- it is the very taboo nature of questioning democracy that makes questioning it all the more vital.


    Offline Kazimierz

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    Re: Democracy is Fundamentally Wrong
    « Reply #5 on: July 31, 2019, 09:38:49 AM »
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  • With respect to the British monarchy, in reality it has little to no influence politically here in Canada apart from tradition. We are called a constitutional monarchy, but it too is a democracy by any other name. I do not want a republic but a CATHOLIC monarchy. Once Queen Elizabeth II passes away, I sense there will be a major push from many sectors to permanently dissolve our formal ties with the English monarchy.

    Canada, by the way, also was not created by a revolution. The Fathers of Confederation were worried though that the Yankees, having destroyed and subjugated the glorious South, and wiping out the American tribes to a huge degree, would turn their sights again on Canada, as they did back in 1812 (when we were technically still Brits.)

    PS Welcome to CI Joseantoniano :) I for one agree with your assessment, having reached similar conclusions from my years of study.

    Does God bless America? I will leave that answer to others.

    Does God keep our land glorious and free, as it is sung in Canada's national anthem? It is glorious in terms of its geography and natural beauty as a part of God's Creation. Free? We have less freedom than the US, so freedom is relative.
    Da pacem Domine in diebus nostris
    Qui non est alius
    Qui pugnet pro nobis
    Nisi  tu Deus noster

    Offline richard

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    Re: Democracy is Fundamentally Wrong
    « Reply #6 on: July 31, 2019, 06:11:16 PM »
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  • I think there's a slight sort of outrage on your part.

    "Ok"..... like you're making a concession and wishing to hold back.... and then "revolting".

    I understand- to question democracy is "unAmerican". It's like saying you hate Jesus and apple pie. In fact, from a social standpoint it's sort of worse in how it's seen- these days it's perfectly accepted to hate Jesus.... but to question democracy.... now that is beyond the pale.... allegedly.

    I understand- on some level, people think it's a sin to question democracy. Democracy is not supposed to be questioned, it's seen as being immoral and sort of like a blasphemy. To openly question democracy is to have basically committed an act of treason and I should be hanged, from a certain standpoint.

    The United States is not like, say.... Japan. The United States is not an organic thing in the way that Japan is- or even, say, England. The English people really are from England, the Japanese really are from Japan.

    Japan wasn't created by a revolution, England wasn't created by a revolution. The Japanese are one people, the English are one people.

    The United States is a sort of melting pot of a bunch of different peoples. The United States is a sort of artificial creation in a sense- I say that as an observation, not as a criticism.

    The US people are not held together by a common heritage in the way that Japanese, English or Spanish are.

    The.... sort of basis..... the sort of foundation- is belief in democracy.

    Democracy is the sort of foundation of the people's identity as a people. To question democracy is to question our very identity as a nation.

    Now, some people might say "well we're actually a constitutional republic"..... I don't think "republic" really tells us much..... we're not living in the system of Plato's Republic..... at least not entirely in a literal sense.... maybe in spirit but not to the letter......
    the system of the USSR.... you could say it was Communism, socialism, "state capitalism," "not-real-Communism," whatever you want to call it... whatever you want to call it, it's the same system.

    The basis of the nation's identity is "democracy"- Wilson didn't talk about "making the world safe for constitutional republics," Bush didn't talk about bringing "constitutional republics" to the Middle East. The name of our common creed is Democracy. I know the scientific name may be "constitutional republic" or whatever.... however, what you call it doesn't really matter..... it's not as though we're being ruled by Plato's class of Guardians and there are no elections. Whether we call our system "democracy," "constitutional republic," "not-real-democracy", doesn't really matter. Whatever you call a rose it's still the same flower.

    I talked about events that took place around 1776 and didn't say anything about us being ruled by the UK's monarchy in 2019. That comment was part of a sort of visceral reaction, I believe, to someone like myself having the nerve to question democracy rather than shut up, be thankful I don't live in North Korea and not question democracy.

    Nevertheless, as much as questioning democracy is a taboo and engaging in questioning it may be seen as implying that I "hate America", am "unAmerican," unpatriotic and need to pack my bags and go to North Korea or some other foreign country- it is the very taboo nature of questioning democracy that makes questioning it all the more vital.
    Rage? No, I have no rage I am just pointing out that I think the monarchial system in Great Britain is a joke. The system in the U.S. is a joke also but that being said I would still rather be here than in Great Britain. For what it's worth I would much prefer to live under a Roman Catholic Monarch then any elected official.

    Offline Donachie

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    Re: Democracy is Fundamentally Wrong
    « Reply #7 on: August 01, 2019, 07:37:17 PM »
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  • The French monarchy and France at the time helped the American Revolution. I think George Washington died in peace as a Catholic. I read an article about it by a priest. He never went beyond the third degree in Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and warned others that it could be dangerous or actually was dangerous, et cetera.

    The English monarchy at the time was from a line of Dutch and German Protestants anyway. They're all Freemasons themselves.

    No taxation without representation and pull the plug on the "Federal" Rezerve Bank. It's the diabolical central bankers who are ruining the freedom of the republic, etc. 


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Democracy is Fundamentally Wrong
    « Reply #8 on: August 01, 2019, 08:07:54 PM »
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  • I hope I don't have to tell you that the revolution was directed by Freemasons. (So was the English monarchy and government)

    Now what would be the correct system were democracy to be overturned?
    The Church has never condemned democracy or a constitutional Republic form of government, it has condemned socialism. Both democracy and preferable a Republic type of government can work very well if it is Catholic, really Catholic. The problem is that the whole world is not Catholic, even in thinking.  Of the over one billion baptized Catholics in the world, I doubt that 100,000 truly LIVE the faith. THAT is the problem.

    P.S. - a monarchy will not work either, unless it is Catholic. For example, if you name Bergolio, the king of the world, and let him have absolute power, the world will go to pot, because he is does not LIVE the faith. As a matter of fact, that should be an indicator to anyone with eyes to see, that he is an impostor pope. 
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Joseantoniano

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    Re: Democracy is Fundamentally Wrong
    « Reply #9 on: August 01, 2019, 09:51:01 PM »
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  • The Church has never condemned democracy or a constitutional Republic form of government, it has condemned socialism. Both democracy and preferable a Republic type of government can work very well if it is Catholic, really Catholic. The problem is that the whole world is not Catholic, even in thinking.  Of the over one billion baptized Catholics in the world, I doubt that 100,000 truly LIVE the faith. THAT is the problem.

    P.S. - a monarchy will not work either, unless it is Catholic. For example, if you name Bergolio, the king of the world, and let him have absolute power, the world will go to pot, because he is does not LIVE the faith. As a matter of fact, that should be an indicator to anyone with eyes to see, that he is an impostor pope.
    Yes, I am with you 100 percent. I am a sedevacantist.
    It is my role to submit to the papacy, not to "recognize and resist" the papal officr