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Author Topic: Definitive proof that Geocentrism is false.  (Read 8669 times)

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Offline Jehanne

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Definitive proof that Geocentrism is false.
« on: August 13, 2015, 09:06:13 AM »
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  • Note that the Sun is always the same size throughout the day (which, means, the same distance from Earth):



    Geocentrism, to have any plausibility, must assert that the Sun goes around the Earth at nearly the same distance, hence, the Sun must go around the Earth in a circle.  But, Here's a Martian sunrise:



    And, a Martian sunset:



    Note that the Sun is the same size from both Mars & Earth but is smaller in Mars' sky than it appears in Earth's sky:



    Ergo, the Sun is farther away from Mars than it is from the Earth, which is why it is smaller, but it always appears to be the same size!

    Note that the Earth can be seen from Mars and that is moves:



    Geocentrism cannot possibly be true, because it would mean that the Sun goes around the Earth in a circle and around Mars in a circle, both at the same time, which is mathematically and physically impossible!


    Offline Matthew

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    Definitive proof that Geocentrism is false.
    « Reply #1 on: August 13, 2015, 09:28:05 AM »
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  • You don't understand Geocentrism at all.

    Have you watched any of the fascinating videos about it?

    Mars goes around the Sun. So do all the other planets. The planets' moons go around them.

    You have not discovered any GOTCHA! like you think you have. You need to read up on it some more.

    It's only Earth that stands immobile in the center of the universe. Yes, the center of the universe. What are you going to do, mock me for being a "fundamentalist" or for believing in a creator God?

     :facepalm:

    You need to look into it further than you have. I used to think the same as you -- that Geocentrism wasn't necessary to be a Catholic. But now I see the scam that is "the Copernican Principle" that the Earth is just in the middle of nowhere, a grain of sand among billions, nothing special... What you don't realize is, in the very next breath they talk about the Big Bang and whatnot. It's all a package deal. It's stupid to believe their backstory and not their conclusion. That's really what it comes down to.

    It isn't even likely -- that the Earth isn't anything special -- considering Calvary is on Earth. There is only one God, and he became MAN and walked on Earth. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Earth was literally fixed at the center of the universe. It is quite believable, there is gobs of evidence for it, and it makes tons of sense.

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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Definitive proof that Geocentrism is false.
    « Reply #2 on: August 13, 2015, 09:28:34 AM »
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  • Quote from: Jehanne
    Geocentrism cannot possibly be true, because it would mean that the Sun goes around the Earth in a circle and around Mars in a circle, both at the same time, which is mathematically and physically impossible!


     :facepalm:

    Utterly idiotic.  As I told you, the math and physics are NOT impossible.  In fact, the math was worked many centuries ago.  Most Planetarium projectors (I actually went to a planetarium last night with my kids) are developed around GEOCENTRIC MATH.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Definitive proof that Geocentrism is false.
    « Reply #3 on: August 13, 2015, 09:30:19 AM »
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  • LOL, Matthew.  You must have beaten me by seconds with your own facepalm.

    Offline B from A

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    Definitive proof that Geocentrism is false.
    « Reply #4 on: August 13, 2015, 10:25:06 AM »
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  • Offline Jehanne

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    Definitive proof that Geocentrism is false.
    « Reply #5 on: August 13, 2015, 12:49:14 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    You don't understand Geocentrism at all.

    Have you watched any of the fascinating videos about it?

    Mars goes around the Sun. So do all the other planets. The planets' moons go around them.


    If Mars goes around the Sun but the Sun goes around the Earth in a circle (which is the only way that the Sun could appear, in Earth's sky, to be a constant size), then the Sun should vary in size as seen from the surface of Mars.  It doesn't.

    Offline Jehanne

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    Definitive proof that Geocentrism is false.
    « Reply #6 on: August 13, 2015, 01:19:49 PM »
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  • What you are proposing is the Tychonic system, which came after the Ptolemaic/Aristotelian system:



    Of course, if the Sun is a constant size in Mars' sky and the Sun is a constant size in Earth's sky, then the size of Mars will vary wildly in Earth's sky.  In fact, Mars should be about the half the size of the Moon during its closet approach to Earth, which, of course, never happens.

    P.S.  If the above were also true, then we should be able to see Mars transit (that is, cross the face of the Sun), which, of course, we never see.

    Offline confederate catholic

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    Definitive proof that Geocentrism is false.
    « Reply #7 on: August 13, 2015, 01:41:25 PM »
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  • Brahe's system requires all objects to be contained within their own elliptical orbits with the planets moving in the opposite direction of the suns movement. that blue circle thing is not Brahe's system but a simple misrepresentation of it making it look flat and foolish.
    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا


    Offline confederate catholic

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    Definitive proof that Geocentrism is false.
    « Reply #8 on: August 13, 2015, 01:43:17 PM »
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  • P.S.
    Quote
    Brahe served as an astronomer for the Danish king before settling in Prague in the court of Holy Roman Emperor Rudolph II. Brahe is known for making the most accurate measurements of stars and planets without the aid of a telescope, proving that comets are objects in space and not in Earth's atmosphere


    unlike the inaccurate galileo
    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا

    Offline Paul9

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    Definitive proof that Geocentrism is false.
    « Reply #9 on: August 13, 2015, 02:30:43 PM »
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  • Jehanne,

    You are going to have to put on your thinking cap.

    1. If mars goes around the sun in a circle, the size of the sun seen from mars will always be the same.
    If the sun goes around the earth in a circle, the size of the sun seen from earth will always be the same.

    2. Where on the diagram you show does the red dot (mars) go between earth and the sun? It doesn't. Therefore you wont see any transit of mars across the sun.

    Offline Clemens Maria

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    Definitive proof that Geocentrism is false.
    « Reply #10 on: August 13, 2015, 02:59:57 PM »
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  • The distance between Mars and Earth varies in both systems.  If your analysis about the relative size was definitive proof about which system is correct don't you think we would be reading about it in the scientific literature?  Please give us a reference.  I can't find anything.  The scientists are claiming:

    Quote
    James Bradley's discovery of stellar aberration, published in 1729, eventually gave direct evidence excluding the possibility of all forms of geocentrism including Tycho's.


    cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tycho_Brahe

    I think you would be well-served to stick to the different arguments already published by scientists rather than try to figure this thing out on your own.  But I think you should also consider reading some of Robert Sungenis' work as well.


    Offline Jehanne

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    Definitive proof that Geocentrism is false.
    « Reply #11 on: August 13, 2015, 03:06:30 PM »
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  • Quote from: confederate catholic
    Brahe's system requires all objects to be contained within their own elliptical orbits with the planets moving in the opposite direction of the suns movement. that blue circle thing is not Brahe's system but a simple misrepresentation of it making it look flat and foolish.


    Brahe did not discover elliptical orbits; Kepler did, some four years after Brahe's death:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Kepler#Astronomia_nova

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Definitive proof that Geocentrism is false.
    « Reply #12 on: August 15, 2015, 02:09:22 AM »
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  • .

    The mathematics used to describe how geocentrism works is the same mathematics that can describe how any other point in our solar system can be thought of as stationary, or motionless.  It makes no difference to the physics of the theoretical system being considered.  

    Using the identical gravitational formulas and those for elliptical orbits (such that the area traced out by the arc of orbit by a satellite is the same area for each unit of time, regardless of the distance from the presumed stationary focal point), the sun could be thought of as stationary (but nobody thinks that it is anymore, unlike Galileo), or Jupiter could be thought motionless, or Mars, or Venus, or Earth's moon, or even Halley's comet.  

    In fact, any point in space, even one not occupied by any planet, sun or asteroid (or a particle of space debris or dust), could be imagined motionless and the center of rotation around which all other objects rotate.  The math is the same.

    The way planets and/or the sun appear to a viewer located at any particular point is likewise the same, regardless of whether one presumes that one spot or another is "motionless."  

    An analogy could be a merry-go-round, where someone standing on the rotating floor could be the "motionless" one, and the world around the merry-go-round is in motion (relatively speaking).  From the standpoint of physics and mathematical calculation, the way the world around appears to the rider is the same whether the rider believes he is moving or not.  

    When engineers figure how large framework beams and columns in a bridge have to be to make the bridge safe, they use a system called "taking moments of inertia" which requires presuming some point to be stationary, or "point zero."  To do so, they can choose any point on the bridge, and "take moments" around that "zero point," most often using two or more points in successive calculations, to double or triple check their work for accuracy.  When all the numbers are correct, they'll get the same results for member forces regardless of which point is held as "zero" (or "motionless").  If you know an engineer, ask him this question.  And don't be surprised if he has to stop and think when you ask him how this applies to geocentrism, because they do not make the connection (which is simple logic) in engineering schools.  That's another topic, really.

    Many misunderstandings about the discussion around geocentrism arise from a failure to recognize the simple principle described above.

    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Jehanne

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    Definitive proof that Geocentrism is false.
    « Reply #13 on: August 15, 2015, 06:57:04 AM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    .

    The mathematics used to describe how geocentrism works is the same mathematics that can describe how any other point in our solar system can be thought of as stationary, or motionless.  It makes no difference to the physics of the theoretical system being considered


    Brahe rejected the heliocentric model because he was not able to observe stellar parallax:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_parallax

    As the article states, James Bradley tried observing it, but ended-up discovering the aberration of light:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberration_of_light

    Of course, as I have already posted, the rotation of the Earth can now be observed directly:

    http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2011/oct/28/laser-gyroscope-measures-the-earths-wobble

    Of course, this fact was also known in the 19th century:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foucault_pendulum

    Offline confederate catholic

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    Definitive proof that Geocentrism is false.
    « Reply #14 on: August 16, 2015, 09:55:15 PM »
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  • kepler discovered nothing

    Quote
    Kepler didn't 'discover' anything, and he didn't prove anything. He worked with
    mountains of data, and found a theory that fit them best.

    Tycho Brahe was a Dane who spent most of the nights of his life observing the
    stars and the planets, measuring their positions, and keeping written records of
    his measurements. Kepler had access to Tycho's notebooks, and used Tycho's
    data to try to figure out how all of these things were situated and how they moved.

    Kepler spent literally years with Tycho's measurements, trying one model after
    another for how the set of planets was put together, looking for one geometry
    that would fit the motions that Tycho actually saw. What he 'discovered' was:
    If you assume that the sun is in the middle and assume that the planets revolve
    around it in elliptical orbits, then that model fits Tycho's observations pretty well.

    In his three "laws" of planetary motion, Kepler said: "Here's a model that does
    a pretty good job of describing the motions we see in the sky, and here's how
    the model is put together":


    soooooooo........... his theory proves (according to this "science" article) Geocentrism.


     :jester:
    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا