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Author Topic: Death Penalty  (Read 2198 times)

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Offline Timothy

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Death Penalty
« on: September 24, 2013, 03:04:31 PM »
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    • For what crimes may the death penalty be justly imposed?  Murder, obviously, but what else?

    In the past, various states in the United States have permitted the death penalty to be imposed for crimes such as rape, kidnapping, escaping from prison.  I believe the federal government still has the ability to impose the death penalty for treason, espionage, and piracy.  At one point in history, there were 220 offenses that carried the punishment of death in Great Britain (including a crimes that today are considered petty, such as theft).

    What about the method of execution?  Should is vary depending on the crime?  Should the condemned be entitled to a "humane" death, or should be go back to such methods as burning, boiling, stoning, etc.?
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    Offline Matto

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    Death Penalty
    « Reply #1 on: September 24, 2013, 03:07:16 PM »
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    • In the Old Testament times there were many crimes that were punished by death, including striking one's parent.
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    Offline Timothy

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    Death Penalty
    « Reply #2 on: September 24, 2013, 03:08:36 PM »
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    • Quote from: Matto
    In the Old Testament times there were many crimes that were punished by death, including striking one's parent.


    But we are not under the Old Law anymore, are we?  I am asking about what is permissible according to Church teaching.
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    Offline Matto

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    Death Penalty
    « Reply #3 on: September 24, 2013, 03:13:08 PM »
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    • Quote from: Timothy
    But we are not under the Old Law anymore, are we?  I am asking about what is permissible according to Church teaching.

    No, we are not under the Old Law anymore. I am not sure which crimes should be punished by death. Maybe murder, heresy and sodomy, but I don't know how many other crimes should be punished by death. I do know that the traditional Church was in favor of the death penalty for serious crimes though the Novus Ordo is against the death penalty.
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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Death Penalty
    « Reply #4 on: September 24, 2013, 05:12:50 PM »
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    • St Pius V ruled that sodomites were to be burned at the stake.  Though that may have been just for clergy sodomites, I'm not sure.
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    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Anthony Benedict

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    Death Penalty
    « Reply #5 on: September 24, 2013, 05:19:51 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mithrandylan
    St Pius V ruled that sodomites were to be burned at the stake.  Though that may have been just for clergy sodomites, I'm not sure.


    As I recall reading about it, the Holy Father instructed that they be tried by the Church and, if convicted, defrocked and turned over to the magistrate for trial and execution under existing law, which did permit being burned at the stake.
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    Offline Charlemagne

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    Death Penalty
    « Reply #6 on: September 24, 2013, 05:21:48 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mithrandylan
    St Pius V ruled that sodomites were to be burned at the stake.  Though that may have been just for clergy sodomites, I'm not sure.


    If that were still the case, Rome would be under a constant air quality advisory.
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    "This principle is most certain: The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope. The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member. Now, he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, and others. Therefore, the manifest heretic cannot be Pope." -- St. Robert Bellarmine

    Offline TheKnightVigilant

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    Death Penalty
    « Reply #7 on: September 24, 2013, 05:24:44 PM »
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    • Quote from: Charlemagne
    Quote from: Mithrandylan
    St Pius V ruled that sodomites were to be burned at the stake.  Though that may have been just for clergy sodomites, I'm not sure.


    If that were still the case, Rome would be under a constant air quality advisory.


    If I lived in Rome, I'd be willing to trade the air quality for the reinstatement of that law.
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    Offline Cato

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    Death Penalty
    « Reply #8 on: September 25, 2013, 12:13:48 AM »
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    • I think repeated acts of violence should be included to murder.  Career criminals just drain the resources of a society.  Many murderers have a history of violence long before they kill someone.  I think there should be a 3 strikes you're executed law.  Honest people spend too much resources on police forces, prisons, security systems, etc. Half of those tax dollars could be returned to tax payers and the other half could be used to fix roads and build libraries.
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    Offline TKGS

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    Death Penalty
    « Reply #9 on: September 25, 2013, 06:15:41 AM »
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    • I am not sure the Church (as opposed to the Conciliar sect) ever defined precisely what crimes for which the death penalty could legitimately be used.

    The Catechism of Saint Pius X says:

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    3 Q. Are there cases in which it is lawful to kill?
    A. It is lawful to kill when fighting in a just war; when carrying out by order of the Supreme Authority a sentence of death in punishment of a crime; and, finally, in cases of necessary and lawful defence of one's own life against an unjust aggressor.


    But it doesn't say which crime legitimately use this penalty.

    Based on my reading of history, I would suggest that any crime that is contrary to the good order of a moral society could legitimately resort to the death penalty in a Christian nation.  This does not require, of course, the State to execute each and every perpetrator of those crimes, but the Church would certainly not rule out execution for them.

    Thus, treason against one's nation certainly qualifies.  So does heresy when it becomes clear it is unrepentant and pertinacious and the heretic attempts to spread the heresy.  Other crimes that have often carried the death penalty to which the Church never objected would include:  murder, kidnapping, rape, sodomy, and theft (especially from another's substance as opposed to his excess).

    This is not, of course, an exhaustive list but merely a few of the more commonly considered crimes for which execution is a legitimate punishment.  The Church has traditionally given the State great latitude in determining the punishment due crimes.  The criteria given by the Conciliarists are, undeniably, ridiculously narrow.
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    Offline SJB

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    Death Penalty
    « Reply #10 on: September 25, 2013, 10:09:20 AM »
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    • Homicide, from Moral Theology, McHugh and Callan:
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    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline SJB

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    Death Penalty
    « Reply #11 on: September 25, 2013, 10:10:36 AM »
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    • Quote from: SJB
    Homicide, from Moral Theology, McHugh and Callan:
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    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline Traditional Guy 20

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    Death Penalty
    « Reply #12 on: September 25, 2013, 10:17:13 AM »
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    • Cold-blooded criminals, rapists, and drug dealers should be given the death penalty.
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    Offline Timothy

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    Death Penalty
    « Reply #13 on: September 25, 2013, 10:44:35 AM »
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    • So, at least in the opinion of the CI posters, the death penalty would be morally justified for at least the following crimes:

    Drug Trafficking
    Heresy
    Kidnapping
    Murder
    Rape
    Sodomy
    Theft
    Treason

    Any others?
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    Offline InfiniteFaith

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    Death Penalty
    « Reply #14 on: September 25, 2013, 11:13:57 AM »
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    • Quote from: Timothy
    So, at least in the opinion of the CI posters, the death penalty would be morally justified for at least the following crimes:

    Drug Trafficking
    Heresy
    Kidnapping
    Murder
    Rape
    Sodomy
    Theft
    Treason

    Any others?


    Adultery
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