Author Topic: Death penalty (Read 1058 times)

InfiniteFaith · « **on:** August 13, 2015, 06:18:20 PM »

Let's say that a person committed a sin that is worthy of the death penalty. Now let's say that the man repents and believes after the fact, and years have passed. Should the man still be put to death?

Matto · « **Reply #1 on:** August 13, 2015, 06:36:20 PM »

I am not an expert so don't take me too seriously, but I have an idea about this. When you commit a crime you incur a debt that you owe to God because of this crime and it has to be paid back to God in this life or in purgatory or in hell. For those who commit crimes worthy of the death penalty, if they accept their punishment willingly and come to believe in God, when they are put to death (of course after confession, extreme unction, and communion) they can pay off their debt owed to God by their death and spend less time in purgatory and maybe even avoid purgatory and go straight to heaven.

That is just a thought though, so I may be wrong. I did not go look up the answer from a good Catholic source.

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #2 on:** August 13, 2015, 06:39:54 PM »

Quote from: Matto

I am not an expert so don't take me too seriously, but I have an idea about this. When you commit a crime you incur a debt that you owe to God because of this crime and it has to be paid back to God in this life or in purgatory or in hell. For those who commit crimes worthy of the death penalty, if they accept their punishment willingly and come to believe in God, when they are put to death (of course after confession, extreme unction, and communion) they can pay off their debt owed to God and spend less time in purgatory and maybe even avoid purgatory and go straight to heaven.

That is just a thought though, so I may be wrong. I did not go look up the answer from a good Catholic source.

So your answer is yes?

What about the woman who committed adultery in the new testament? Christ was asked if she should be put to death for it. He did not give them the go ahead to do so because they too were sinners.

I am not arguing against the death penalty by any means BTW. I am just wondering if maybe repentance could omit the death penalty.

Marlelar · « **Reply #3 on:** August 13, 2015, 06:42:55 PM »

That is my understanding also Matto. A person is not punished for being an unbeliever, or unrepentant but for the action itself.

Unless someone is mentally challenged I don't think there is anyway he would not know he were committing a capital offense so he must pay the penalty no matter how remorseful he may be after the fact. I would pray for his repentance so that he could one day be in heaven.

Matto · « **Reply #4 on:** August 13, 2015, 06:45:25 PM »

Quote from: InfiniteFaith

So your answer is yes?

What about the woman who committed adultery in the new testament? Christ was asked if she should be put to death for it. He did not give them the go ahead to do so because they too were sinners.

I am not arguing against the death penalty be any means BTW.

I could say yes or no. Sometimes mercy is best and sometimes judgment. It is up to a good king or judge to decide in each particular circuмstance, not for me. My thought was just to present the case that their is some value in the afterlife of accepting a death sentence because it is better to suffer in this world than the next.

And even though in one case recorded in scripture, God allowed for the guilty to be spared death, the same God made that law that ordered her death and many (I would guess thousands) people were killed because of God's law. All throughout Catholic history, serious crimes were punished by death in Catholic countries.

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #5 on:** August 13, 2015, 06:56:50 PM »

Quote from: Matto

Quote from: InfiniteFaith

So your answer is yes?

What about the woman who committed adultery in the new testament? Christ was asked if she should be put to death for it. He did not give them the go ahead to do so because they too were sinners.

I am not arguing against the death penalty be any means BTW.

I could say yes or no. Sometimes mercy is best and sometimes judgment. It is up to a good king or judge to decide in each particular circuмstance, not for me. My thought was just to present the case that their is some value in the afterlife of accepting a death sentence because it is better to suffer in this world than the next.

And even though in one case recorded in scripture, God allowed for the guilty to be spared death, the same God made that law that ordered her death and many (I would guess thousands) people were killed because of God's law. All throughout Catholic history, serious crimes were punished by death in Catholic countries.

Well I know I have committed crimes that are worthy of death. I would willingly accept capital punishment even now. But I will say that I have not committed any crimes worthy of death after becoming a believer. Sometimes I am glad that my life was spared long enough so that one day I would come to believe. Otherwise I would have gone to hell for sure.

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #6 on:** August 13, 2015, 08:23:22 PM »

Quote from: InfiniteFaith

Quote from: Matto
Quote from: InfiniteFaith

So your answer is yes?

What about the woman who committed adultery in the new testament? Christ was asked if she should be put to death for it. He did not give them the go ahead to do so because they too were sinners.

I am not arguing against the death penalty be any means BTW.

I could say yes or no. Sometimes mercy is best and sometimes judgment. It is up to a good king or judge to decide in each particular circuмstance, not for me. My thought was just to present the case that their is some value in the afterlife of accepting a death sentence because it is better to suffer in this world than the next.

And even though in one case recorded in scripture, God allowed for the guilty to be spared death, the same God made that law that ordered her death and many (I would guess thousands) people were killed because of God's law. All throughout Catholic history, serious crimes were punished by death in Catholic countries.

Well I know I have committed crimes that are worthy of death. I would willingly accept capital punishment even now. But I will say that I have not committed any crimes worthy of death after becoming a believer. Sometimes I am glad that my life was spared long enough so that one day I would come to believe. Otherwise I would have gone to hell for sure.

What I am struggling to understand is why would God have made me a believer after having committed crimes worthy of death? You would think that if a crime were worthy of death that He would not make the guilty person a believer. Rather He would take the persons life, as He did with the sodomites, and cast them into hell.

This is why sometimes I wonder if, like you say, some cases should warrant mercy while others death.

Nadir · « **Reply #7 on:** August 13, 2015, 09:14:43 PM »

Sometimes the knowledge of immanent death through capital punishment is enough to turn a person's heart to God. In that way, capital punishment will mean that they save their soul which is so much more valuable than their life.

2Vermont · « **Reply #8 on:** August 13, 2015, 09:30:22 PM »

How would the State determine that the man truly repented?

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #9 on:** August 13, 2015, 10:27:35 PM »

Quote from: 2Vermont

How would the State determine that the man truly repented?

Maybe if he/she showed signs of being a believer. Not just saying it but showing signs of it. One example might be that he/she exhibits prophecy. Or even his/her actions or words are in line with the universe. A priest might be a good judge for something like this. Oh... Or the person appears to be holy.

Maybe I'm just grasping for straws... I don't really know.

OHCA · « **Reply #10 on:** August 13, 2015, 10:47:27 PM »

Quote from: InfiniteFaith

. . . Or even his/her actions or words are in line with the universe.

???

Please do tell what this would entail.

MrYeZe · « **Reply #11 on:** August 13, 2015, 11:16:37 PM »

Is there even a question? Only bleeding heart heathens are against the death penalty...which explains why Europe is against it.

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #12 on:** August 14, 2015, 06:49:55 AM »

Quote from: MrYeZe

Is there even a question? Only bleeding heart heathens are against the death penalty...which explains why Europe is against it.

Yes. The question is... Does God spare the lives of some who have committed crimes worthy of death? If so, on what basis? Repentance? Belief? Both?

OHCA · « **Reply #13 on:** August 14, 2015, 10:21:25 AM »

Quote from: InfiniteFaith

Quote from: MrYeZe
Is there even a question? Only bleeding heart heathens are against the death penalty...which explains why Europe is against it.

Yes. The question is... Does God spare the lives of some who have committed crimes worthy of death? If so, on what basis? Repentance? Belief? Both?

Romans Chapter 11:

[33] O the depth of the riches of the wisdom and of the knowledge of God! How incomprehensible are his judgments, and how unsearchable his ways! [34] For who hath known the mind of the Lord? Or who hath been his counsellor?

Nadir · « **Reply #14 on:** August 14, 2015, 04:47:47 PM »

Quote from: InfiniteFaith

Yes. The question is... Does God spare the lives of some who have committed crimes worthy of death? If so, on what basis? Repentance? Belief? Both?

Only two options? Don't forget: there's also the prayers of the Faithful who pray for unrepentant sinners. God doesn't despise anyone's heartfelt prayer.

God doesn't go around zapping all mortal sinners. He is wanting repentance, conversion and submission to His Will. He does give more than one chance to some of us. But sooner or later all our chances are used up, whether it's 1 or 100, and we will die. Sure as eggs! He wants all of us with Him, but He gives us the final say about that.