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Author Topic: Croix de Fer has been banned  (Read 10148 times)

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Offline Jaynek

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Re: Croix de Fer has been banned
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2018, 04:47:45 AM »
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  • I hope everyone can see I really didn't have a choice. I can't start each day by deleting 10+ posts where Croix de Fer is calling other members foul names. And I got sick of all the reports coming in to the moderator about him and his posts. 
    I don't see what else you could have done, but I hope that the people who escalated the problem by calling him names reflect on their role in the situation.  Few, if any, of the people he called foul names had not also attacked him.  There were many posters saying some rather nasty things about him.  It is likely this was a factor in his unacceptable behaviour. 

    Did he "jump the shark" or was he pushed over the edge?

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Croix de Fer has been banned
    « Reply #16 on: July 05, 2018, 07:54:44 AM »
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  • I've gotten more downvotes in the last week, talking about feminism.  Apparently, people can't talk about it without getting triggered.  I'd say the same people who "complained to the moderator" about him were the one's calling him names.  His response just took things up a notch. 

    As someone else asked, maybe he could have a temporary ban?


    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Croix de Fer has been banned
    « Reply #17 on: July 05, 2018, 11:38:27 AM »
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  • I've gotten more downvotes in the last week, talking about feminism.  Apparently, people can't talk about it without getting triggered.  I'd say the same people who "complained to the moderator" about him were the one's calling him names.  His response just took things up a notch.  
    Yeah, everybody says they are against feminism, but the pattern of downvotes suggests that there are some people who support it.  It isn't just posts with name-calling that get downvotes, but even perfectly polite condemnations of feminism.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Croix de Fer has been banned
    « Reply #18 on: July 05, 2018, 12:25:17 PM »
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  • I've gotten more downvotes in the last week, talking about feminism.

    Sometimes it's not about what you say but about how you say it.  There's an implicit undercurrent of misogyny in your posts to the effect of "most women are scuм and left to their own devices will be immoral and cheat".    Most MEN, my friend, end up falling into sin at college.  So it's a little imbalanced to single out women in that regard.  And that's where the downthumbs come from.  PS -- I haven't downthumbed you myself since the sedevacantists battles of a couple months ago.  I will not let my sons live on campus at college in the dorm rooms ... occasions of sin are everywhere on campus.  They'll be commuting to college ... to minimize that danger.

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Croix de Fer has been banned
    « Reply #19 on: July 05, 2018, 12:42:17 PM »
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  • Sometimes it's not about what you say but about how you say it.  There's an implicit undercurrent of misogyny in your posts to the effect of "most women are scuм and left to their own devices will be immoral and cheat".    Most MEN, my friend, end up falling into sin at college.  So it's a little imbalanced to single out women in that regard.  And that's where the downthumbs come from.  PS -- I haven't downthumbed you myself since the sedevacantists battles of a couple months ago.  I will not let my sons live on campus at college in the dorm rooms ... occasions of sin are everywhere on campus.  They'll be commuting to college ... to minimize that danger.
    My anti-feminist posts were getting down-voted too, as were those of other women.  I think that this time it is about what we are saying, not how we say it.


    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Croix de Fer has been banned
    « Reply #20 on: July 05, 2018, 01:11:35 PM »
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    There's an implicit undercurrent of misogyny in your posts to the effect of "most women are scuм and left to their own devices will be immoral and cheat".
    Sorry, but that was Croix's mindset, not mine.  I am simply arguing that IF a woman loses her Faith and decides to divorce, then a prenup can help a man.  As many have pointed out, the odds are low, but it's still a possibility. 
    Most who disagreed with me were making the argument that any rebuke of women is automatic feminism and hateful language.  Meanwhile, EVERY post where I criticized women AND men, were upvoted - which shows immaturity.  The downvotes are just coming from closet-feminsts who are not adult enough for such discussions without getting their feelings hurt.

    Offline Merry

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    Re: Croix de Fer has been banned
    « Reply #21 on: July 05, 2018, 01:34:12 PM »
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  • For a marriage to be valid, do not both parties have to come to it without any mental reservations?  Does not a pre-nup indicate a mental reservation?   
    If any one saith that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and on that account wrests to some sort of metaphor those words of Our Lord Jesus Christ, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost...,"  Let Him Be Anathama.  -COUNCIL OF TRENT Sess VII Canon II “On Baptism"

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Croix de Fer has been banned
    « Reply #22 on: July 05, 2018, 02:00:32 PM »
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  • Is the Church's Nuptial Blessing, wherein she prays for and reminds the wife to be pure, faithful, wise in her friends, supportive of her husband and honoring of her vows a mental reservation?  I mean, the couple just got married 45 minutes before, and the Church is already praying for the wife to remember her vows?

    A prenup deals with civil divorce, not the sacrament.  It's an agreement that if a civil marriage is destroyed by either party, then here are the financial penalties.  Just like the Church has/teaches spiritual penalties during marriage classes, so the prenup is an agreement as to financial penalties.  If the marriage stays together, then the prenup is meaningless, so it doesn't affect anything.


    Offline TxTrad

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    Re: Croix de Fer has been banned
    « Reply #23 on: July 06, 2018, 10:34:32 AM »
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  •   I am simply arguing that IF a woman loses her Faith and decides to divorce, then a prenup can help a man.  
    Should a man assume this is a real possibility before he marries the young lady, why marry her at all?  Same goes for the young lady.  If she believes the man may leave her or beat her or cheat on her, etc, why take the risk?
    .
    The solution is not to take precautions on paper but to do the best you can to make a good choice before marriage, pray for each other a lot, and leave the rest to God.
    .
    He will take care of you if you do the best you can and trust in Him.

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Croix de Fer has been banned
    « Reply #24 on: July 06, 2018, 12:35:22 PM »
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  • If the young lady is trustworthy and pious, then why does she care about signing a docuмent that will never affect her?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Croix de Fer has been banned
    « Reply #25 on: July 06, 2018, 12:37:53 PM »
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  • Should a man assume this is a real possibility before he marries the young lady, why marry her at all?  Same goes for the young lady.  If she believes the man may leave her or beat her or cheat on her, etc, why take the risk?
    .
    The solution is not to take precautions on paper but to do the best you can to make a good choice before marriage, pray for each other a lot, and leave the rest to God.
    .
    He will take care of you if you do the best you can and trust in Him.

    Legal precautions can be circuмvented if the woman has lost all regard for the moral aspects of the act.  She can claim abuse for instance.  Ah, yes, the wicked husband severely spanked one of the children (this can be exaggerated).  Despite what Pax says, it doesn't have to be proven in a criminal court in order for the divorce judge to factor it in.  Women could have affairs without ever getting caught, etc.  As you say, the only true precaution is finding the right person.  And you don't go on how she presents herself while dating.  You look at her family, her upbringing, and signs of her being devout.  Look for women who, without being forced to by their parents, dress modestly and are devout beyond the mere requirements.  Look for women who attend weekday Mass or have a strong prayer life.  Then your odds of a stable marriage increase dramatically ... if you yourself have the same qualities.

    And then, if despite all this, God wills to bring you the cross of an unfaithful wife, well then it's His will that we suffer those things for our sanctification.  We have the opportunity to turn the other cheek and become holy in our forgiveness of such a great offense.


    Offline Vintagewife3

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    Re: Croix de Fer has been banned
    « Reply #26 on: July 06, 2018, 12:43:27 PM »
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  • And then, if despite all this, God wills to bring you the cross of an unfaithful wife, well then it's His will that we suffer those things for our sanctification.  We have the opportunity to turn the other cheek and become holy in our forgiveness of such a great offense.
    Isn’t adultry a reason to get a divorce in the Church’s eyes? Or well, God’s eyes.

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Croix de Fer has been banned
    « Reply #27 on: July 06, 2018, 12:52:57 PM »
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    Legal precautions can be circuмvented if the woman has lost all regard for the moral aspects of the act.  
    Maybe partially, but not totally.  I'd rather have an agreement than not.
    Your argument is one based on extremes.  "Well, the safety features of a car don't work 100% of the time, and even if you had airbags, and steel framing, anti-lock brakes and impact-resistant engineering, you could still die, so you might as well save $ and buy a crappy car because safety features are a waste."  Just because something isn't full-proof doesn't mean it's worthless.

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Croix de Fer has been banned
    « Reply #28 on: July 06, 2018, 01:00:38 PM »
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    And then, if despite all this, God wills to bring you the cross of an unfaithful wife, well then it's His will that we suffer those things for our sanctification.  We have the opportunity to turn the other cheek and become holy in our forgiveness of such a great offense.
    You don't go hiking in the woods without water, food and emergency supplies...just in case.  If you forget all that, go hiking and then almost die of dehydration because you turned your ankle and didn't have water, and it took you 4 hrs to walk back to your car.  You can't say "well, God wanted me to suffer this tragedy."  That's true in some sense- God did allow you to turn your ankle... but it's also true that you caused your own suffering through stupidity and being unprepared.  Had you brought extra water, you wouldn't have almost died, even with a turned ankle.
    The point is, humans must act in the world on the spiritual AND temporal level.  Same thing applies to marriage.  Your prep is both spiritual AND temporal (which includes legal).

    Offline Vintagewife3

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    Re: Croix de Fer has been banned
    « Reply #29 on: July 06, 2018, 01:04:07 PM »
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  • Pax Vobis, 

    Are you against marriage license too? I only ask because after much reading, and listening to everything most have to say here. I actually don’t think a prenup is a bad thing. I can see how it’s been stigmatized, but my only request would be that the man signed a marriage license so he can’t just ghost us and remarry.