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Author Topic: Criticizing American Eastern Orthodox  (Read 1429 times)

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Offline LaramieHirsch

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Criticizing American Eastern Orthodox
« on: September 08, 2019, 10:47:40 PM »
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  • So, I tried to split hairs with this article and be careful and as respectful as I thought I could be.  Though I know it's a can of worms in a LOT of communities, and it raises a lot of emotional issues for so many people---mainly the Eastern Orthodox.  

    But, I tell you folks, there's a certain kind of breed of EO people who just don't exhibit the holy charity of a religious persona.  They lack charity and exhibit more antagonism than anything.  

    At the bottom of this post is the spiciest part of my article.  I do not know how/where to circulate this article, to be honest.  I know a lot of EO folks, truth be told.  And this article may upset quite nearly all of them.  But it's true.  And I'd like to hear some Catholic perspective on this matter.  Which is why I'm bringing it up here, at Cathinfo firstly.

    The purpose of this article is to put into words what a lot of us Catholics have already known about the EO, but hasn't been said too much in an open forum.  Sort of like that old FSSP vs SSPX article I wrote (which drew a LOT of attention; it was on everyone's minds, but no one simply "said it.")  Basically, this new batch of EO folks are obnoxious.

    The main article can be found here:    http://forge-and-anvil.com/2019/09/09/noting-u-s-trends-towards-eastern-orthodoxy/



    Quote
    I find that there’s three kinds of EO laity.

    1. There are those who are EO due to their geographical location. Such people are subject to their environment in those cases. These people are simply born within the Greco-Roman pipeline. If they know nothing else other than their EO heritage, it is hard to blame them. These kinds of Eastern Europeans—whether born in Romania, Macedonia, or Russia—are the inheritors of an almost-millenium-long tradition of Christianity that can be traced back to the Crusades.

    2. There are those Americans who’ve converted to the EO because they knew no better. They never really gave other “denominations” any other consideration. It seemed the best choice, it was put right in front of them, and so they made a jump without looking around at anything else. And such people I admire. It’s one step further towards the True Church. They understand that there’s a mystical aspect to the world. They recognize that Christendom didn’t spring forth from a scatological heretic. They realize that Christ came to Earth to leave us a Church, not a bible. These kinds of people are reasonable, like the first group. And if I were to go to an EO Mass and legally receive the Eucharist from an illicit-yet-valid consecration, I would want to be in a congregation with these first two groups of good people.

    3. But then there’s a third kind of EO laity. These are the kinds of people who join and brag of their church membership out of malicious spite. For these people, their revolt against the Roman Catholic Church continues apace, just as it was when they were still Protestant Evangelicals. Such individuals were fully aware of the option of becoming Roman Catholic, but they reject it in an utter refusal to recognize the primacy of Rome. The kinds of people I speak of are the same people who held an emotional animosity for the RCC before and after their conversion into the EO.

    This third group I’m talking about exhibits a lack of charity, which lies at the heart of schism. They are as much scoffers as they were before their conversion. And, in fact, much of what directs them deeper into their newfound EO traditions is more of a case of bitter zeal—the same kind of phenomenon that we see in other schismatic movements that have popped up in the Church these past fifty years. Their hearts are hardened to true, necessary, actual ecuмenical thought when it comes to the RCC. They luxuriate themselves in enmity, and like the pharisee of Luke 18:11, they say “At least I’m not like them.”

    This third subspecies of Eastern Orthodox laity are not innocently living a life of cloistered virtue. They are not isolated from the rest of the world in a closed-in EO community somewhere. They are not ignorant of other avenues towards the True Faith. Far from it, the Legitimate Authority of Christ is present and known to them every day of their lives, but they actively reject it. In this way, they are still Protestant in their hearts, for they are in an open protest against the Church. They mock the RCC’s problems, and like any atheist point to its corruption as a vindication of their religious position. And in this way, they ridicule Christ’s tortuous path up to Calvary. They see the Church in Her own Passion, and they scoff like a Roman soldier.

    American Catholics would do well to keep abreast of this current in the Christian community. It is a trend shared with other fellow-traveler schismatics who cannot bear to fathom the RCC having the problems She currently has. This is an matter that will have to be dealt with one way or another, and it is best to be informed and educated on the matter.

    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle


    Offline Sigismund

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    Re: Criticizing American Eastern Orthodox
    « Reply #1 on: September 12, 2019, 05:29:44 PM »
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  • Yeah, because there is just no animosity to non Catholic Christians among Trads. 
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir


    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Criticizing American Eastern Orthodox
    « Reply #2 on: September 13, 2019, 11:17:40 AM »
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  • Yeah, because there is just no animosity to non Catholic Christians among Trads.
    There are uncharitable people everywhere.
    All that being said, calling Protestants “Christian” is a slight stretch.  Not completely invalid, but kinda eeh 

    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    Re: Criticizing American Eastern Orthodox
    « Reply #3 on: September 13, 2019, 12:24:26 PM »
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  • Yeah, because there is just no animosity to non Catholic Christians among Trads.
    Catholic self-hate astounds me.  (Well, it used to.)

    Catholics have enough problems with self-image and morale.  Tearing ourselves down serves no one.  

    I do not care about non-Catholic "Christians."  I care about the Catholics.  That's why I'm posting on a Catholic forum, and why my writing is towards Catholic people.  Morale needs to be boosted.  Non-Catholics are wrong and have a problem.  Catholics are on the right track.  The Catholic Church is right, good, and supreme.  I am a Catholic supremacist.  Everything else is inferior.  If you are a Catholic, you are winning, compared to all others.  

    We are not on equal playing fields.  The three Abrahamic religions are not equal.  The denominations are not the same.  All are schismatic except for the Catholic Church.  

    I care about my team, my people, my group. No one else has given a damn about our group for as long as I can remember.  My in-group preferences are for Catholics.  

    The Eastern Orthodox needs to get their act together.  They are in schism.  We are right.  They are wrong.
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle

    Offline LeDeg

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    Re: Criticizing American Eastern Orthodox
    « Reply #4 on: September 13, 2019, 07:15:33 PM »
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  • Catholic self-hate astounds me.  (Well, it used to.)

    Catholics have enough problems with self-image and morale.  Tearing ourselves down serves no one.  

    I do not care about non-Catholic "Christians."  I care about the Catholics.  That's why I'm posting on a Catholic forum, and why my writing is towards Catholic people.  Morale needs to be boosted.  Non-Catholics are wrong and have a problem.  Catholics are on the right track.  The Catholic Church is right, good, and supreme.  I am a Catholic supremacist.  Everything else is inferior.  If you are a Catholic, you are winning, compared to all others.  

    We are not on equal playing fields.  The three Abrahamic religions are not equal.  The denominations are not the same.  All are schismatic except for the Catholic Church.  

    I care about my team, my people, my group. No one else has given a damn about our group for as long as I can remember.  My in-group preferences are for Catholics.  

    The Eastern Orthodox needs to get their act together.  They are in schism.  We are right.  They are wrong.
    I agree Laramie. I can't help but think that Catholics seem to forget other "religions" are the product of the evil one leading those astray. Whether they realize it or not really doesn't matter. They are outside looking in. 
    Unfortunately there is virtually no place that they can authentically "look in and see" after VII. Thus the agony we live in. Not just for ourselves, but for those seeking the truth. 
    "You must train harder than the enemy who is trying to kill you. You will get all the rest you need in the grave."- Leon Degrelle


    Offline poche

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    Re: Criticizing American Eastern Orthodox
    « Reply #5 on: September 13, 2019, 10:56:22 PM »
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  • Bojan is critical of these types also.

    Offline Jews Did 911

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    Re: Criticizing American Eastern Orthodox
    « Reply #6 on: September 13, 2019, 11:09:55 PM »
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  • There are a lot of Jєω false converts to Eastern Orthodoxy who enter the seminary and become priests.
    And the Lord said to me: A conspiracy is found among the men of Juda, and among the inhabitants of Jerusalem. They are returned to the former iniquities of their fathers, who refused to hear my words: so these likewise have gone after strange gods, to serve them: [...]
    - Jeremias 11:9-15

    Offline David Slays Goliath

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    Re: Criticizing American Eastern Orthodox
    « Reply #7 on: September 13, 2019, 11:40:14 PM »
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  • I do not care about non-Catholic "Christians."  I care about the Catholics.  That's why I'm posting on a Catholic forum, and why my writing is towards Catholic people.  Morale needs to be boosted.  Non-Catholics are wrong and have a problem.  Catholics are on the right track.  The Catholic Church is right, good, and supreme.  I am a Catholic supremacist.  Everything else is inferior.  If you are a Catholic, you are winning, compared to all others.[...]   

    I care about my team, my people, my group. No one else has given a damn about our group for as long as I can remember.  My in-group preferences are for Catholics. 

    Wait, didn't you somewhat recently collaborate with a pagan witch, Heithrun, and an admitted sodomite & Novus Ordo attenuated "convert" from atheism, who LARPs as a "trad", Davis Aurini, to "rebuild" white communities and civilization?


    Offline alaric

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    Re: Criticizing American Eastern Orthodox
    « Reply #8 on: September 14, 2019, 05:31:56 AM »
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  • I find EO is basically a network of ethnic churches. On the face of it, to the un-catechized believer, they come off as a quasi-catholic sect that are merely separated from Rome by the fact of papal supremacy and cultural'/ethnic differences with the West. But, they are much more than that in fact, there are so  many historical and ecclesiastical  differences that the chances of Constantinople coming home to Rome is just about mathematically impossible, IMO.

    At any rate, the hyper ethnocentrism within their "jurisdictions" will eventually be their downfall with the old immigrants dying off and the younger nbever really taking their religion serious to begin with, kind of like with the RCC is going through now as well.Yet, many young catholics are coming back to tradition in the Church and even though EO has maintained much tradition, it doesn't seem to be the case with their young. If anything, it's their converts, many from RC, that are trying to escape the madness of Francis and the gαy mafia that control the Vatican, that are starting to reinforce EO's numbers in small pockets.

    I also find that as EO brings in more converts from heretical protty sects, they begin to become too fruitty and "americanized" as well.Seeing these liberalized clerics in EO clerical garb is a very strange sight indeed. So, ironically, the combination of the old Orthodox ethnics dying off and the new fruitcake "converts" coming in, will eventually make this "traditional" sect of christianity into another modernistic nightmare.

    And one more thing. EO, loves to bash RC about all our differences and infighting within the Church.

    And yet, all these people do is fight against each other, the very nature of their "jurisdictions" with no hierarchy has set them against each other, from what I understand they just had another blow up recently and the largest sect in Russia is breaking from the Greek Patriarchy, which makes our "schisms" look like child's play. EO definitely has some problems, and from I observe, it damn sure isn't our papacy. They need to clean up their own houses first. My .02.

    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    Re: Criticizing American Eastern Orthodox
    « Reply #9 on: September 14, 2019, 10:24:05 AM »
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  • Alaric, I'll bet your predictions will prove accurate.  Spot on description.

    I'll admit, Jay Dyer's "religious jabs" this year compelled me to cover this.  Though I've read a lot of smug EO commentary from other quarters as well.


    There are a lot of Jєω false converts to Eastern Orthodoxy who enter the seminary and become priests.

    Intriguing.  Do you have any links discussing this?


    Bojan is critical of these types also.




    Who/what is Bojan?
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle

    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    Re: Criticizing American Eastern Orthodox
    « Reply #10 on: September 14, 2019, 10:31:31 AM »
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  • Wait, didn't you somewhat recently collaborate with a pagan witch, Heithrun, and an admitted sodomite & Novus Ordo attenuated "convert" from atheism, who LARPs as a "trad", Davis Aurini, to "rebuild" white communities and civilization?
    You've no idea what you're talking about, Croix/Quid Retribuam/terminal ballistics/David Slays Goliath.  Also, God abhors detractors.  I imagine you'll soon be banned again.
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle


    Offline David Slays Goliath

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    Re: Criticizing American Eastern Orthodox
    « Reply #11 on: September 14, 2019, 10:54:27 AM »
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  • You've no idea what you're talking about, Croix/Quid Retribuam/terminal ballistics/David Slays Goliath.  Also, God abhors detractors.  I imagine you'll soon be banned again.

    You know that you participated in a now defunct organized effort with Heithrun the pagan witch and sodomite Davis Aurini to "rebuild communities and Western civilization". Don't lie, it's a mortal sin. You can't cry "detraction" when somebody wants clarification of your past activities and collaborations, especially when you're trying to sell your blog, or whatever it is that you do, while wearing the cloak of a "righteous Catholic" who "only cares about Catholics", and who claims to be a "Catholic supremacist". How does that work when you're collaborating with pagans and Novus Ordo "converts" who have a history of sodomy?

    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    Re: Criticizing American Eastern Orthodox
    « Reply #12 on: September 14, 2019, 11:20:25 AM »
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  • How does that work when you're collaborating with pagans and Novus Ordo "converts" who have a history of sodomy?

    It works because there is no collaboration nor participation.  Chatting in streams or talking over Skype is far from running advertising campaigns and fund raisers.  Your gamma male concern-trolling-ankle-biting chirping is effeminate.

    Aurini is my friend, and I am loyal with my friendships.  You would think this would be an important feature of Catholics---who might I add should be encouraging one another and supporting each other, especially new converts.  Instead, as we all know, there's infighting and purity spiraling.  The perennial hate boner of Team Fail never ceases to astound me.

    My guess, based on your past behavior, is that you're either a loser or a fed.
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle

    Offline David Slays Goliath

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    Re: Criticizing American Eastern Orthodox
    « Reply #13 on: September 14, 2019, 11:40:31 AM »
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  • It works because there is no collaboration nor participation.  Chatting in streams or talking over Skype is far from running advertising campaigns and fund raisers.  Your gamma male concern-trolling-ankle-biting chirping is effeminate.

    Aurini is my friend, and I am loyal with my friendships.  You would think this would be an important feature of Catholics---who might I add should be encouraging one another and supporting each other, especially new converts.  Instead, as we all know, there's infighting and purity spiraling.  The perennial hate boner of Team Fail never ceases to astound me.

    My guess, based on your past behavior, is that you're either a loser or a fed.

    Uh, huh. So your willful intent in skyping & chatting with pagan witches and a Novus Ordoite, who has an admitted history of sodomy, was to try to get something "off the ground and moving". But it was so lame it never went anywhere. The failure is due to participants' lack of strategy and resolve, not due to your conscience telling you to not work with people who reject Christ and worship a tree, and a person (Aurini) who apparently has no true contrition for his past sodomy when he jubilantly admits to Matt Forney that he slept with men and trannies.

    My "guess" (more like correct analysis) is that you're a failed writer who can't get off the ground and moving, or you're the Fed trying to lure other Catholics into a trap. "By their fruits you will know them" ... Skyping with pagans and sodomites is the tip of the iceberg. Your fruit is rotten.

    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    Re: Criticizing American Eastern Orthodox
    « Reply #14 on: September 14, 2019, 11:54:39 AM »
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  • Uh, huh. So your willful intent in skyping & chatting with pagan witches and a Novus Ordoite, who has an admitted history of sodomy, was to try to get something "off the ground and moving". But it was so lame it never went anywhere. The failure is due to participants' lack of strategy and resolve, not due to your conscience telling you to not work with people who reject Christ and worship a tree, and a person (Aurini) who apparently has no true contrition for his past sodomy when he jubilantly admits to Matt Forney that he slept with men and trannies.

    My "guess" (more like correct analysis) is that you're a failed writer who can't get off the ground and moving, or you're the Fed trying to lure other Catholics into a trap. "By their fruits you will know them" ... Skyping with pagans and sodomites is the tip of the iceberg. Your fruit is rotten.

    And like I said, your continued efforts to sow emnity, spread scandal, and spout off detraction shows your failure with tact, discretion, and self control.  Your juvenile maliciousness is plain to see for anyone with eyes.  If anything, I have more cause to criticize your patronage of Matt Forney's content, as he's been admitting to becoming a lapsed Catholic.  Although, I listen to him too, on occasion, and I'm uninterested in tearing him down.  (I've even enjoyed listening to The Bectloff sometimes as our interests overlap; but I'm also not interested in criticizing him.)

    Your accusations, on the other hand, are hypocritical.
    .........................

    Before some audiences not even the possession of the exactest knowledge will make it easy for what we say to produce conviction. For argument based on knowledge implies instruction, and there are people whom one cannot instruct.  - Aristotle