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Author Topic: Could the British Prime Minister be a Daily Rosary Saying, Tridentine Mass fan?  (Read 14087 times)

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Offline trad123

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I wasn’t making an argument with the last post. I don’t care if you disagree with me, but you have no basis for calling me a non -Catholic. Here’s what Pius IX says on EENS

(. . .)

can attain eternal life by the power of divine light and grace.


What do you think is meant by divine light and grace. No one who professes a false religion can be saved. 

https://www.cathinfo.com/baptism-of-desire-and-feeneyism/pius-ix-and-invincible-ignorance/


What do you think is meant by divine light and grace. No one who professes a false religion can be saved.

https://www.cathinfo.com/baptism-of-desire-and-feeneyism/pius-ix-and-invincible-ignorance/
Wrong. If they profess it in ignorance they can be saved( although they would be saved as Catholics, not by their religion)


Offline trad123

  • Supporter
Wrong. If they profess it in ignorance they can be saved( although they would be saved as Catholics, not by their religion)

There it is, Vatican II's imperfect communion.

Catholic religion ; a statement of Christian teaching and history (1919)

pg. 176 to 177

Quote
No Salvation Outside the Church.

Baptism of desire does not make one a member of the body of the Church nor capable of receiving the other sacraments, until sacramental Baptism has been administered. It unites one with the soul of the Church. It effects the internal communion with the Church, consisting in the desire (albeit implicit) of being externally united with it, which is an indispensable means of salvation. One must bear in mind the different kinds of union with the Church, in order to understand the truth, that outside of the Church there is no salvation. Those who would be saved must have the will to do all that God has ordained for salvation consequently the desire of being a member of His true Church. If one who professes a false religion is saved, he is saved not through his false religion, but only inasmuch as he is (however unconsciously) a member of the true Church. Christians who through no fault of their own, are separated by heresy or schism from the body of the Church, may be in the soul of the Church. The will to do all that God has ordained for salvation is compatible with external but unconscious separation from the Church; therefore one who is in error through invincible ignorance (bonafide) is capable of perfect contrition. The case is different with him who is knowingly in error (bone fide) so long as he persists in thus acting against his conscience.


Vatican II, Unitatis redintegratio

http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/docuмents/vat-ii_decree_19641121_unitatis-redintegratio_en.html

Quote
3. Even in the beginnings of this one and only Church of God there arose certain rifts,(19) which the Apostle strongly condemned.(20) But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions made their appearance and quite large communities came to be separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame. The children who are born into these Communities and who grow up believing in Christ cannot be accused of the sin involved in the separation, and the Catholic Church embraces upon them as brothers, with respect and affection. For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. The differences that exist in varying degrees between them and the Catholic Church - whether in doctrine and sometimes in discipline, or concerning the structure of the Church - do indeed create many obstacles, sometimes serious ones, to full ecclesiastical communion. The ecuмenical movement is striving to overcome these obstacles. But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ's body,(21) and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.(22)

The poison of Vatican II didn't happen over night.

Offline trad123

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Ut Unum Sint (25 May 1995) | John Paul II

http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/docuмents/hf_jp-ii_enc_25051995_ut-unum-sint.html


Quote
Indeed, the elements of sanctification and truth present in the other Christian Communities, in a degree which varies from one to the other, constitute the objective basis of the communion, albeit imperfect, which exists between them and the Catholic Church.

To the extent that these elements are found in other Christian Communities, the one Church of Christ is effectively present in them. For this reason the Second Vatican Council speaks of a certain, though imperfect communion. The Dogmatic Constitution Lumen Gentium stresses that the Catholic Church "recognizes that in many ways she is linked" 14 with these Communities by a true union in the Holy Spirit.

Now one understand subsists in.

Ut Unum Sint (25 May 1995) | John Paul II

http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/docuмents/hf_jp-ii_enc_25051995_ut-unum-sint.html


Now one understand subsists in.
Not what I’m saying. I’m done arguing this. We’ve done this many times before.