Author Topic: cσɾσnαvιɾυs and the proper disposition regarding legal authorities  (Read 224 times)

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Offline TKonkel

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On the proper disposition regarding the legal authorities and their directives regarding the declared cσɾσnαvιɾυs pandemic: 

I speak from the point of view of one who is attempting to direct my families' actions according to Catholic / Thomistic principles as best as my limited lights allow. 
 
Law: “An ordinance of reason promulgated by legitimate authority for the sake of the common good.”
 
As a family, in the current case regarding this pandemic, we are intending to follow the spirit, as well as the letter of the law of our local, regional, and national authorities as best we can.  I think that the current directives by the authorities is intended for the sake of the common good (primarily here the overall health and wellbeing of the community) and thus these requests should be presumed reasonable, at least on account of their end.  The directive is by a legitimate authority that relies, as best it can, on the most competent council, in terms of the scientific community, as possible.  That says nothing of course to the question of whether some other direction by the authorities might not be more prudent.  The subject matter of prudence, as in this case applied to the political sphere, deals with the contingent where certitude and exactitude are not available as in other sciences.   Aristotle and St. Thomas, when speaking about the sciences of ethics and politics (Nicomachean Ethics BK I ch.3), point out that it is a lack of wisdom on our part if we demand a certitude that is not appropriate to the subject matter of a science.  We do not demand the same sort of certitude and exactitude of the carpenter as we do the neurosurgeon and neither is there the sort of clarity in the political sphere (not to mention the medical art) as there is in mathematics.  This becomes all the more true the further we move from more general to more concrete principles and directives.
 
 
A law can become unjust because it is contrary to the common good (as when one makes a law for the sake of his own cupidity or vainglory), or on account of the fact that the law exceeds the power committed to the lawgiver or if the burdens placed are imposed unequally.  “Unequal” is spoken of in terms of proportion and not strict equality.  The mean of distributive justice is a proportionate mean as opposed to the strict mean of equality which measures commutative justice.  So, for instance, we dole out tax burdens proportionately based on tax brackets but it would be unjust for the grocery store to charge me more for a gallon of milk than they charge you.
 
 I certainly do not claim to have any sort of certitude as to the most prudent way for those in authority and for we as a community to proceed in the current case but I have no reason to insist that such laws are unjust on their face.
In addition, it would be a strange thing if in the midst of a global crises (however “real” or not) those “of the world” would be willing to make sacrifices for the sake of the good of their community while we of the faith would seem unwilling to do so. 
  

Offline ByzCat3000

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  • I'm definitive that shutting down public masses is unjust, and that the church should be resisting that, though across the board they seem to not be, which is very depressing.

    I'm not certain regarding anything else.  I'm definitely bothered, but not certain.


    Offline Clemens Maria

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  • I'm definitive that shutting down public masses is unjust, and that the church should be resisting that, though across the board they seem to not be, which is very depressing.

    I'm not certain regarding anything else.  I'm definitely bothered, but not certain.
    Masses were not specifically targeted.  Rather gatherings of more than 10 people (or in Switzerland 5) were banned in some places and strongly discouraged in others.  Why don't you call or email your priest and find out if you can get into a Mass?

    Offline Miseremini

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  • I'm definitive that shutting down public masses is unjust, and that the church should be resisting that, though across the board they seem to not be, which is very depressing.

    I'm not certain regarding anything else.  I'm definitely bothered, but not certain.
    Shutting down public masses is to keep people at a distance to protect them.
    However, shutting down public Masses is a different story.
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline VO2 Max

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  • A cop saw me out and about during the first few days of our county's orders to stay inside except for essential needs. In fact, I pulled up right next to him and got out of my car. He drove off after looking at me. He knew he didn't want any part of me.


    Offline ByzCat3000

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  • Shutting down public masses is to keep people at a distance to protect them.
    However, shutting down public Masses is a different story.
    For clarity, are you just correcting the fact that I forgot to capitalize Masses?  Or is there some other point you're making? 

    Offline ByzCat3000

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  • Masses were not specifically targeted.  Rather gatherings of more than 10 people (or in Switzerland 5) were banned in some places and strongly discouraged in others.  Why don't you call or email your priest and find out if you can get into a Mass?
    I've already asked.  Why do you assume I haven't?

    Offline Clemens Maria

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  • I've already asked.  Why do you assume I haven't?
    Well that's the decision of your priest.  Masses are not forbidden.  In fact, he could have as many as 10 people in attendance at his Mass without running afoul of the public authorities.  If he chooses to not allow anyone to attend then that is his prerogative.  He may have a different assessment of the risks involved than you have.  Inconvenient.  But it is what it is.


    Offline Miseremini

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  • We don't always know the who what where  when and why of any given situation.  Just maybe some or all of the priests are "breaking the law" and attending to the sick and dying  who are in IMmєdιαTE NEED of them and are now reluctant to have even 10 people attend their Mass because they believe themselves to be compromised (health wise).  You may not like what the authorities are doing but you need some trust in your priest.
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline ByzCat3000

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  • We don't always know the who what where  when and why of any given situation.  Just maybe some or all of the priests are "breaking the law" and attending to the sick and dying  who are in IMmєdιαTE NEED of them and are now reluctant to have even 10 people attend their Mass because they believe themselves to be compromised (health wise).  You may not like what the authorities are doing but you need some trust in your priest.
    I didn't say anything negative about my priest.  Really I less blame the priests here.  One, they have to obey their episcopal superiors (at least probably, +Schneider says they can disobey and maybe he's right, but continue listening for point two), two, if they were to resist and get punished, especially without their bishops backing them up, that could indeed lead to the results you describe, basically not leading to any good but plenty of bad.

    I more am frustrated with Bishops and *especially* the Vatican, not that this is surprising to any of us, but these people should be insisting that the Mass is essential, and acting accordingly. 

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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  • You may not like what the authorities are doing but you need some trust in your priest.
    Did wonders in the 1960s and 70s...
    + Vincit veritas +


     

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