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Author Topic: Copyright vs Imprimatur  (Read 586 times)

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Offline ascanio1

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Copyright vs Imprimatur
« on: November 12, 2019, 03:51:35 PM »
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    • Can someone, please, explain which date is the relevant one, to determine the version of liturgy of the missal?

    Most missals display four different dates for:
    1. Imprimis potest: 1962
    2. Imprimatur: 1962
    3. Copyright (C): 1958, 1962 by Abbaye of ...

    or:
    1. Imprimis potest: 1964
    2. Imprimatur: 1965
    3. (C): 1965 Abbaye de St ...
    4. (C): 1960 Darton ...

    or:
    1. Imprimis potest: 1962
    2. Imprimatur: 1962
    3. (C): 1960 Abbaye de St ...
    4. (C): 1960 Darton ...

    etc., etc..

    My objective is to buy a missal that conforms, exactly, to the 1962 liturgy. Kindly, could some one help me understand?
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    Offline MiserereMei

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    Re: Copyright vs Imprimatur
    « Reply #1 on: November 13, 2019, 12:14:06 PM »
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    • The title of the Missal should show so. Imprimaturs and copyrights vary since they are specific for that particular edition and/or author. For instance, an edition of the1962 missal by X author could have been issued in X country and language in 1963,  with 1963 aproval. I've seen other publications with several imprimaturs and nihil obstats for the same edition granted by different bishops or ordinaries. 
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    Offline ascanio1

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    Re: Copyright vs Imprimatur
    « Reply #2 on: November 14, 2019, 05:36:02 PM »
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    • Thank you.

    So the imprimatur and nhil obstat are not useful to determine which liturgy is used, only to determine that it is an (any) approved liturgy.

    Which element determines the liturgy?

    The Copyright?

    If so, what does it mean when there are two (C)?

    If not the copyright, then what date defines the exact rubric/liturgy?

    My goal is to purchase a book with the exact liturgy in use in my chapel.
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    Offline MiserereMei

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    Re: Copyright vs Imprimatur
    « Reply #3 on: November 15, 2019, 07:30:24 PM »
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    • Probably I'm going to confuse you even more... I have Latin/Spanish missals. The pictures show different imprimaturs, copyrights, etc.  but the three of them show the same exact Latin text for the Mass. Translations differ a little bit since one was published in Argentina, other in Spain and the other one in Belgium. I would recommend checking the Latin text of your options vs the one used in your chapel.
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    Offline MiserereMei

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    Re: Copyright vs Imprimatur
    « Reply #4 on: November 15, 2019, 07:32:42 PM »
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    Offline MiserereMei

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    Re: Copyright vs Imprimatur
    « Reply #5 on: November 15, 2019, 07:33:46 PM »
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    Offline ascanio1

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    Re: Copyright vs Imprimatur
    « Reply #6 on: November 16, 2019, 04:25:10 PM »
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    • Quote from: MiserereMei on November 15, 2019, 07:30:24 PM
    Probably I'm going to confuse you even more... I have Latin/Spanish missals. The pictures show different imprimaturs, copyrights, etc.  but the three of them show the same exact Latin text for the Mass. Translations differ a little bit since one was published in Argentina, other in Spain and the other one in Belgium. I would recommend checking the Latin text of your options vs the one used in your chapel.
    Thank you very much! I appreciate your images but, yes, I am even more confised... ::)
    I want to understand which refereuce (imprimatur, the first (C), the second (C), nihl obstat, etc.) descibes the content year?

    When examining misslas online, one cannot ask the seller to show all the pages. But, even if the seller did show them, I would not be able to deterine which content year, they relate to.

    There must be a way of determining which missal to buy...
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Copyright vs Imprimatur
    « Reply #7 on: November 16, 2019, 05:27:46 PM »
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    • I would think that if it's the Tridentine Mass and if you have the chance to skim to the Canon, if the name of St. Joseph is there, then I would say that it's the 1962 Tridentine Missal.  Otherwise, these dates would not be conclusive.

    These are nothing more than the dates on which the copyright and various ecclesiastical were received.

    In a straight Missale Romanum, there would be a preface that would indicate the Editio Typica on which it was based as being the 1962.  It's the Editio Typica date that determines the year of the Missal.  You could conceivably have a 1962 Missal published and imprimatured in 2015.

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    Offline ascanio1

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    Re: Copyright vs Imprimatur
    « Reply #8 on: November 17, 2019, 12:35:06 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on November 16, 2019, 05:27:46 PM
    In a straight Missale Romanum, there would be a preface that would indicate the Editio Typica on which it was based as being the 1962.  It's the Editio Typica date that determines the year of the Missal.  You could conceivably have a 1962 Missal published and imprimatured in 2015.
    Thank you.

    My goal is to:
    i. find a Missal as close as possible to the Mass being prayed in my chapel (FSSPX),
    ii. if possible with Fr Lasance layout that is very helpful for "novices" to our Faith, like me,
    iii. if possible "prayed on" (used) as I like the aura of time.
    iv. I do not mind if a few words only have changed (for example, adding only St Joseph)

    I found and bought an original 1937 Fr Lasance Missal and then ordered a 1945 Fr Lasance reprint Missal. I was looking for a 1962 original Fr Lasance missal but I discovered that he died before. In my catechism studies I came across a course byDr. Taylor. He and Mrs Mary from StAnneHelper both recommend the St Andrew missal, after the Fr Lasance missal. Hence I now started looking for one such (St Andrew) missal and found these (I will enquire with the seller to see if he can find the "Editio Typica" year):

    i. https://www.ebay.com/itm/362796509168

    ii. https://www.ebay.com/itm/ST-ANDREW-DAILY-MISSAL-W-SLIPCASE-LEATHER-GILT-LOVELY-COND-W-HOLY-CARDS/283665892356?hash=item420bce0404:g:TXwAAOSwRS9dwfre

    iii. https://www.ebay.it/itm/Vintage-1960-THE-SUNDAY-MISSAL-MADE-IN-BELGIUM-WOOD-AND-LEATHER/193083675925?_trkparms=aid%3D1110001%26algo%3DSPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140131123730%26meid%3D866aa47f921c46269cb15d4d481ebb88%26pid%3D100167%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D362796509168%26itm%3D193083675925%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D5411&_trksid=p5411.c100167.m2940

    iv. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Saint-Andrew-Bible-Missal-1965-Biblica-Bruges-Belgium/362392676197?hash=item5460496765:g:~moAAOSwYFpbSlpK

    v. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Saint-Andrew-Bible-Missal-1965-Biblica-Bruges-Belgium/362392676197?hash=item5460496765:g:~moAAOSwYFpbSlpK

    vi. https://www.ebay.com/itm/143381448731


    By the way. I have been unable to understand why there are missals split into four books like this one:
     https://www.ebay.it/itm/ST-ANDREW-DAILY-MISSAL-4-VOL-1958-LEFEBVRE-LEATHER-GILT-NO-BOX-EXC-COND/283591623403?_trkparms=aid%3D1110001%26algo%3DSPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140131123730%26meid%3Dde41c5c5a3a847828a87fb312da5f559%26pid%3D100167%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D283665892356%26itm%3D283591623403%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D5411&_trksid=p5411.c100167.m2940


    Again, thank you for investing your time and sharing your expertise.
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    Offline ascanio1

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    Re: Copyright vs Imprimatur
    « Reply #9 on: November 20, 2019, 04:23:53 AM »
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