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Author Topic: Conversion from Greek Orthodox to Roman Catholicism  (Read 3053 times)

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Offline Centroamerica

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Re: Conversion from Greek Orthodox to Roman Catholicism
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2018, 04:31:53 PM »
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    • If you want to know the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, don't look to the official docuмents approved by Roman authorities. Look at the grass roots Catholics. That is usually how the Novus Ordo is exposed. Our local UGCC priest has been denounced by the media and had attempts to contact the diocese (he is of the eparchy) for what is deemed radical Catholicism.

    And here we have the Ortho schismatics calling them bandits as the UGCC openly calls them Moscow dogs (not very Vatican Twoish to me). UGCC members of parliament openly tell the Orthodox schismatics that they have no religious freedom in Ukraine. A far cry from the Novus Ordo beast. The Orthodox schizos cry to Francis and the UGCC authorities pay them no mind.

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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Conversion from Greek Orthodox to Roman Catholicism
    « Reply #16 on: May 15, 2018, 07:11:42 PM »
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    • Quote from: Centroamerica on May 15, 2018, 04:24:52 PM
    There have always been heretic prelates weezeled away in the Church. Given that we are in the worst crisis the Church has ever seen, the Eastern rite churches of the Byzantine or Alexandrian traditions are not immune to this. But the Latin Church has become thoroughly rotten so much so that members of the clergy have had to consecrate bishops without permission of Roman authorities for 30 years just to preserve the Latin liturgy and validity of Holy Orders. It's not an odd thing to go to a UGCC Liturgy and have a sermon about the Arian heresy or the Council of Nicea whereas your common diocesan Masses (if there are even valid Masses and Holy orders) will pump liberal ideas and who knows what else. The sermons at a Ukrainian Liturgy are more doctrinally sound or even more Traditionally Catholic than often what your local SSPX priest will preach, and this alone speaks volumes.

    You can quickly discern that the Ukrainian Catholics in general certainly retain the Catholic faith.  And that's one of the implications of my slant on sedeprivationism.  Those Prelates appointed by a material Pope would exercise formal jurisdiction provided that they themselves have no impediment from doing so.
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    Offline Arsenius

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    Re: Conversion from Greek Orthodox to Roman Catholicism
    « Reply #17 on: May 18, 2018, 11:28:29 PM »
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    • Canonically speaking, I'm not even sure if it is possible for him to convert directly from Greek Orthodox to Roman Catholic (i.e., the Latin church). Ordinarily converts from canonical Orthodoxy are received into the Catholic Church merely by making a profession of faith and going to confession. However (and this is the important part) they do not become Roman Catholics, i.e. members of the sui juris Latin church. They become members of the Eastern Catholic representative of their Orthodox church. For example, a convert from Russian Orthodoxy would be received into the Catholic church as a Russian Catholic. It is extremely difficult for Eastern Catholics to canonically change sui juris churches, as the Latin church does not typically allow members of Eastern Catholic churches to become Roman Catholic. Your friend should speak with Eastern Catholics to ascertain the route he must take. 

    That being said as a convert in the opposite direction (from the Latin church to Eastern Orthodoxy) I can't imagine why he would want to do so. 
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    “We seek and we pray for our return to that time when, being united, we spoke the same things and there was no schism between us.” ~ St. Mark of Ephesus

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    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Re: Conversion from Greek Orthodox to Roman Catholicism
    « Reply #18 on: May 19, 2018, 12:44:33 AM »
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    • Quote from: Arsenius on May 18, 2018, 11:28:29 PM
    Canonically speaking, I'm not even sure if it is possible for him to convert directly from Greek Orthodox to Roman Catholic (i.e., the Latin church). Ordinarily converts from canonical Orthodoxy are received into the Catholic Church merely by making a profession of faith and going to confession. However (and this is the important part) they do not become Roman Catholics, i.e. members of the sui juris Latin church. They become members of the Eastern Catholic representative of their Orthodox church. For example, a convert from Russian Orthodoxy would be received into the Catholic church as a Russian Catholic. It is extremely difficult for Eastern Catholics to canonically change sui juris churches, as the Latin church does not typically allow members of Eastern Catholic churches to become Roman Catholic. Your friend should speak with Eastern Catholics to ascertain the route he must take.

    That being said as a convert in the opposite direction (from the Latin church to Eastern Orthodoxy) I can't imagine why he would want to do so.
    There IS a Greek-Catholic Church, but because of the Greek Church's ties to the state and identity and heritage, the Byzantine Catholic equivalent is very small, enough so that they have to import clergy. It is even smaller than the Russian Catholics, who at least have two (three?) parishes in the US.

    What would be the nearest option? Melkite?
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    Offline Arsenius

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    Re: Conversion from Greek Orthodox to Roman Catholicism
    « Reply #19 on: May 19, 2018, 01:05:30 AM »
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    • Quote from: JezusDeKoning on May 19, 2018, 12:44:33 AM
    There IS a Greek-Catholic Church, but because of the Greek Church's ties to the state and identity and heritage, the Byzantine Catholic equivalent is very small, enough so that they have to import clergy. It is even smaller than the Russian Catholics, who at least have two (three?) parishes in the US.

    What would be the nearest option? Melkite?
    The Melkite church is a Syriac church which shares much in common with the Antiochian Orthodox church, down to the style of chant and liturgical rubrics. If the person in question is from a very traditional Greek Orthodox background it’s likely he would feel more at home with the Melkites as opposed to a Slavic church which has totally different music and considerably different rubrics in some instances. Most so-called “Byzantine” Catholic churches in America are of Ruthenian origin, i.e. Slavic. The same is true of the OCA (Orthodox Church in America) which is Russian Orthodox and ex-Ruthenian in origin (tracing back to St Alexis Toth who was originally an Eastern Catholic bishop)
    That being said, the issue of canonical status might not be resolved (although it really doesn’t matter if you don’t intend on entering the clergy). I have a friend who converted to Catholicism from Russian Orthodoxy and was received into the Catholic Church through the Melkite church. Despite this he is still canonically considered Russian Catholic, even though he does not attend a Russian Catholic parish. 
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    “We seek and we pray for our return to that time when, being united, we spoke the same things and there was no schism between us.” ~ St. Mark of Ephesus

    "It is only when something very good is broken that you will pay almost any price to restore it" ~ Fr. Alexander Schmemann

    Offline Jovita

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    Re: Conversion from Greek Orthodox to Roman Catholicism
    « Reply #20 on: May 19, 2018, 07:54:44 AM »
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    • St Alexis Toth, of blessed memory, who was originally an Eastern Catholic bishop
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    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Re: Conversion from Greek Orthodox to Roman Catholicism
    « Reply #21 on: May 19, 2018, 08:45:56 AM »
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    • He was never a Catholic bishop, Fr. Alexis Toth was a priest who converted to Russian Orthodoxy after being mistreated by the Latin Catholic bishop and later canonized by the Orthodox.

    He lived in my hometown, Minneapolis and the church he started his American ministry became St. Mary's Orthodox Cathedral in northeast Minneapolis. It's in the same part of town as most of the Eastern Catholic parishes.
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    Offline Arsenius

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    Re: Conversion from Greek Orthodox to Roman Catholicism
    « Reply #22 on: May 19, 2018, 10:13:36 AM »
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    • Quote from: JezusDeKoning on May 19, 2018, 08:45:56 AM
    He was never a Catholic bishop, Fr. Alexis Toth was a priest who converted to Russian Orthodoxy after being mistreated by the Latin Catholic bishop and later canonized by the Orthodox.

    He lived in my hometown, Minneapolis and the church he started his American ministry became St. Mary's Orthodox Cathedral in northeast Minneapolis. It's in the same part of town as most of the Eastern Catholic parishes.
    Yes, apologies. I realized the typo after it was too late to edit. 
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    “We seek and we pray for our return to that time when, being united, we spoke the same things and there was no schism between us.” ~ St. Mark of Ephesus

    "It is only when something very good is broken that you will pay almost any price to restore it" ~ Fr. Alexander Schmemann

    Offline Peter

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    Re: Conversion from Greek Orthodox to Roman Catholicism
    « Reply #23 on: May 20, 2018, 03:47:56 AM »
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    • Centroamerica posted:


    Quote
    Byzantine tradition has always been the vernacular. The Ukrainian Church mostly used Ukrainian. That is why their Liturgy was not poisoned by Vatican 2. Again, thoroughly Catholic Liturgy used by the UGCC. The group attached to the SSPX wanted more Latinisms, which even includes special devotion to Sister Fautina and the Divine Chaplet. They seem closer to V2 then the official UGCC judging by their website. The UGCC is criticized by the Orthodox for not being ecuмenical and taking back their churches in a Saint Nicolas du Chardonnet fashion. They criticize Francis openly on their website for playing the fiddle with the Russian Orthodox. If I want Latin traditions, I go to the local SSPX/CMRI/ Resistance Church. When I go to a church of the Byzantine tradition, I don’t expect to pray the Chaplet of Divine Mercy.
    Hi Centroamerica,

    The Ukrainian Catholic tradition has always been Old Church Slavonic, although Old Church Slavonic (or a variant of it)  was once the vernacular of ancient Bulgaria from whence came Sts. Cyril and Methodius. This Liturgical language was then spread by the disciples of St. Methodius from Moravia, eastward to present day Eastern Slovakia and Ukraine. With respect to Halych (the heartland of the UGCC) the  Ukrainian Church began using modern Ukrainian only after VII and mostly after    the influence of those that came  from the diaspora in 1990 -who were fully imbued with the spirit of VII.

    I have no affiliation with the SSJK or Society of St. Josaphat although I do support some of their effort, at least in spirit. Their devotion to the false “divine Mercy” of Sister Faustina is certainly not one of them. Although, to be fair their devotion is not unlike that of some of their co-religionists in Western Ukraine including priests and laity in the mainstream (UGCC) church.

    The “taking back of their Church” struggle (in Kolomyia) that you cite is not really a religious struggle between Catholics and “Orthodox”. At its base level it’s a political issue between Ukrainian nationalists and pro-Moscow Orthodox i.e. Ukrainian Orthodox Church Moscow Patriarchate. For example, it is UGCC policy to share Holy Communion (Eucharistic hospitality as they call it) with laity of the pro-nationalist schismatic groups. A blatant example of communicatio in sacris. For that matter, at least in the parishes I have attended here in North America, non-Catholics i.e. Orthodox are welcomed to partake of the Holy Eucharist in UGCC parishes. Certainly a scandal to faithful Catholics. 
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