Author Topic: Church growth in Africa. (Read 1352 times)

Nishant · « **on:** December 11, 2011, 04:27:33 AM »

Some people point to the decline in vocations and figures of practicing and believing Catholics as proof that Vatican II was intrinsically harmful to the Church. But I believe the more likely explanation is that this was merely due to cultural upheavals and increase in general lawlessness in traditionally Christian societies, like Europe and America, and this seems borne out by the fact, that in other places, post-Vatican II, the Church has done rather well.

From Catholic Culture,

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The explosive growth of the Church in Africa began over a century ago and has accelerated in the past three decades. In 1900, there were 2 million Catholics in Africa; today, there are over 165 million-- triple the 1978 figure of 55 million. 14% of Catholics worldwide now live there, nearly half of the children in Catholic elementary schools study there, and 43% of the world’s adult baptisms-- over a million a year-- take place there. There are more Catholic hospitals in Africa than there are in North and Central America combined.

Between 1998 and 2007, the number of priests increased from 26,026 to 34,658, while the number of women religious grew by over 10,000, from 51,304 to 61,886. Over 14 million African children attend Catholic elementary schools, while another 3.7 million attend Catholic high schools. Since 1978, the number of African seminarians has more than quadrupled from 5,636 to 24,034, and Africa is now the world’s second most vocation-rich continent, bested only by Asia.

s2srea · « **Reply #1 on:** December 11, 2011, 06:42:06 AM »

Even the protestant sects in Africa are booming substantially.

What does this mean when you consider the increase in number of Catholics?

Graham · « **Reply #2 on:** December 11, 2011, 01:13:23 PM »

The Quiet Revolution in Quebec was already underway at the time of VII. But I've spoken with enough older Catholics here to know that the traditional-minded - who were numerous - were demoralized by the aggiornamento. So who can say how these cultural upheavals would have unfolded in the presence of an uncompromising Church?

It may be that the post-VII Church is popular in Africa in large part because it is a modernizing influence.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #3 on:** December 11, 2011, 01:22:36 PM »

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today, there are over 165 million-- triple the 1978 figure of 55 million. 14% of Catholics worldwide now live there, nearly half of the children in Catholic elementary schools study there, and 43% of the world’s adult baptisms-- over a million a year-- take place there.

Hasn't the population of Africa drastically increased since 1978?

Nishant, what happened in Europe, Latin America, the US and the anglosphere was not something that was an inevitable result of a changing culture. That's the liberal narrative, but it's not the truth.

The cognitive dissonance of trying to take one's religion seriously while the supposed leaders of the religion actively destroy it and contradict it is not something that most people can easily manage.

Those who are half-hearted give up, those who are faithful gradually become half-hearted. Ordinary human beings can't take being betrayed again and again and again.

Francisco · « **Reply #4 on:** December 11, 2011, 11:56:35 PM »

Quote from: Nishant2011

Some people point to the decline in vocations and figures of practicing and believing Catholics as proof that Vatican II was intrinsically harmful to the Church. But I believe the more likely explanation is that this was merely due to cultural upheavals and increase in general lawlessness in traditionally Christian societies, like Europe and America, and this seems borne out by the fact, that in other places, post-Vatican II, the Church has done rather well.

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Yes, I have heard local Novus Ordo priests comment that the Pope on the one hand shows great concern about the state of the Church in Europe, but on the other, scarcely says a word about the buoyant Church in Africa and even Korea. These places are doing well enough to make up for the shortfall in vocations elsewhere.

Concerning " cultural upheavals " I have heard that an Asian SSPX priest has lamented that many Filipina vocations to the religious life are lost because of the cultural differences encountered in the convents of Europe and America, and that, for some time now, there has been a crying need to establish a fully fledged convent ( and seminary?) in the Philippines.

nadieimportante · « **Reply #5 on:** December 12, 2011, 12:25:46 AM »

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Hasn't the population of Africa drastically increased since 1978?

Nishant, what happened in Europe, Latin America, the US and the anglosphere was not something that was an inevitable result of a changing culture. That's the liberal narrative, but it's not the truth.

The cognitive dissonance of trying to take one's religion seriously while the supposed leaders of the religion actively destroy it and contradict it is not something that most people can easily manage.

Those who are half-hearted give up, those who are faithful gradually become half-hearted. Ordinary human beings can't take being betrayed again and again and again.

Very well said.

I think that the whole world, including Africa, would have been Catholic, had the Catholic Church acted Catholic during the upheavals of the 1960's and on. The reality is that the world was left with no alternative to the upheaval.

Nishant · « **Reply #6 on:** December 13, 2011, 01:35:36 AM »

About a hundred years ago, Hillaire Belloc famously said, Europe is the Church and the Church is Europe. It was Europe who sent missionaries bearing the light of faith to all lands. I think we're seeing a changing dynamic, where perhaps the day is not too far off, when it will be those from Asia and Africa who will bring that light of Christ back to lands where it has been snuffed out, or almost lost.

Telespohorus, I looked up what you asked, and the approximate population figures are 100 million, 500 million and 1 bilion for 1900, 1978 and today. Or there were 53 million new Catholics out of an increase of 400 million in the population and 110 million out of a further increase of 500 million. So that is still a growth in the Catholic percentage of the total population, as such, from 2% to 11% to 16.5%, which is not bad.

But the increased vocations to the priesthood and religious life are waht I find heartening. I don't deny that the leaders of the Church, on the human side, share some of the blame. But I think the disparity in vocations in this timeframe between say, Africa and North America comparatively, make it likely that at least a large part is cultural rather than universal to the Church.

Rhea, well the Protestants have grown too, but it's scattered as you'd expect across their various denominations.

Graham, no doubt some left because Church leaders simply didn't seem to reflect Catholic beliefs anymore. But I think a fair number also left because the Church wasn't hip enough. As early as 1968, there was a widespread dissenting response to Humanae Vitae, and obviously things were going to get much worse as people actually began to engage in sin and to approve it culturally. Also, recent times have increased occasions for sin of all types.

Francisco, I agree with you, even though I think there has been some Vatican interest in Africa in recent times. The Pope recently went there and mentioned one of his Cardinal friends he was close to, I forgot his name. I've also heard though that some seminaries are even more liberal than the general population.

nadieimportante · « **Reply #7 on:** December 13, 2011, 08:00:42 AM »

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I've also heard though that some seminaries are even more liberal than the general population.

In the third world, most of the vocations are for monetary reasons. I know from experience in Latin America. An engineer with a degree is lucky if he makes $1000 a month there. A priest however, because of the shortage of priests in the USA, has a chance to get a job here and make like $35,000 per year.

Francisco · « **Reply #8 on:** December 13, 2011, 10:32:02 AM »

Quote from: nadieimportante

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I've also heard though that some seminaries are even more liberal than the general population.

In the third world, most of the vocations are for monetary reasons. I know from experience in Latin America.

I wouldn't say most. The vast majority of priests and religious of Third World countries are content to stay and work in their home countries. Statistics are available from various Church yearbooks. I have seen foreign priests sneer at local devotions to various saints, saying that we undertake them purely to obtain material gain rather than an increase in sanctity!

Nishant · « **Reply #9 on:** December 13, 2011, 10:42:52 AM »

Although we can't entirely rule out monetary reasons in some cases, I also think that that is slightly exaggerated. Many priests remain in their home countries all their lives, vocation shortage or not. It could also possibly be material desires and the prospect of riches in a developed economy and of an easy lifestyle in the first place that keeps people from seriously considering religious life.

nadieimportante · « **Reply #10 on:** December 13, 2011, 12:54:35 PM »

Quote from: Francisco

Quote from: nadieimportante
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I've also heard though that some seminaries are even more liberal than the general population.

In the third world, most of the vocations are for monetary reasons. I know from experience in Latin America.

I wouldn't say most. The vast majority of priests and religious of Third World countries are content to stay and work in their home countries. Statistics are available from various Church yearbooks. I have seen foreign priests sneer at local devotions to various saints, saying that we undertake them purely to obtain material gain rather than an increase in sanctity!

Of course, we can't generalize as I did, as each country is different. To be specific:

- a Brazilian friend tells me that in Brazil, the preisthood today has the reputation of being a profession of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs.

- Cubans tell me that the seminaries are controlled by the government. If a seminarian does not fit the mold, they are eliminated.

- In Mexico and Colombian, I'm told that the clergy are very conservative compared to the USA.

Francisco · « **Reply #11 on:** December 14, 2011, 01:52:48 AM »

[of course, we can't generalize as I did, as each country is different...]

You are absolutely right about generalizations! It's worse when Traditional Catholic priests start doing so because such prejudice clouds the apostolate and vocations are lost.