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Author Topic: Mark Shea and Summorum Pontificuм  (Read 1247 times)

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Offline Belloc

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Mark Shea and Summorum Pontificuм
« on: January 04, 2010, 11:08:31 AM »
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  • A Note on Our Catholic Brother
    Mark Shea and Summorum Pontificuм
    The Holy Father's Motu Proprio, Summorum Pontificuм, as expected, has been received with great alacrity and positively by those who long awaited the restoration of the Traditional Latin Mass codified by Pope St. Pius V.

    Also, as expected, the reactionaries (who hold that the Catholic Church was established by decree of the Second Vatican Council in 1965), have had and are still having their field day in decrying -- to say the least, criticizing -- the mind and motive of Benedict XVI.

    Among these reactionaries and revisionists are neo-Catholics who are converts from evangelical and fundamental Protestantism, who, it seems, have not divested themselves of their protestant baggage and have completely embraced the Catholic ethos, but have brought their excess baggage along with them after crossing the Tiber. Now that they are "firmly entrenched" and have become bona fide citizens of the City of God, they believe that it is incuмbent upon themselves to arrogate the appellation, "Catholic Apologist," and thus have out forward their interpretation of what Catholicism is.

    Notorious among these neo-Catholics is Mark Shea, who has gone as far as insulting faithful Catholics (who he labels as "those traditionalists") who are moving in droves to the "restored" ancient Liturgy of the Latin Church. Without understanding what the Immemorial Mass is (described by Fr. Faber as "The most beautiful thing this side of Heaven"), Shea has gone even to the point of alluding to a fixation one may have for shoes (!) that a Catholic looks to the liturgy of the Mass.

    Is Mark Shea a Catholic, or does he have a peculiar brand of Catholicism? If one reads what he wrote in the article, "Some Thoughts on Motu Proprio Man ia," one would come out believing Shea does not know Church history (a commonality of Protestants). "To be deep in history is to ceased being a Protestant," as Ven. John Cardinal Newman once posited.

    To the reference of "shoes," he says, "The point of shoes is not to notice them, but to walk in them. Shoes you constantly notice are Bad Shoes. Liturgy you focus on is liturgy that's not doing its job, which is to refer us to God, not to itself." Mark Shea has got it backwards. The N.O. is all about celebrating "man made god," feel good about oneself, meet to socialize within the Liturgy itself.

    In the defense of the Novus Ordo Missae we always find it amusing to hear the platitude, "I'm not like the others, I attend a reverent Novus Ordo Mass" something
    which is getting rarer and rarer to find these days.

    Shea is still inprisoned in the cell of his protestant background, and is yet to become fully Catholic. We pray that this should be forthcoming very soon. He hasn't completely crossed the Tiber.

    SOURCE:     http://www.alcazar.net/mark_shea.html
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic


    Offline Elizabeth

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    Mark Shea and Summorum Pontificuм
    « Reply #1 on: January 05, 2010, 11:30:37 AM »
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  • A classic example of a Protestant thinking he's truly Catholic.  Understandable given the circuмstances, but annoying as all get out!


    Offline Belloc

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    Mark Shea and Summorum Pontificuм
    « Reply #2 on: January 05, 2010, 12:21:31 PM »
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  • having been a part of a group email involving him, can tell you he is very flippant, brushes things off and can be arrogant and nasty at times....
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline littlerose

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    Mark Shea and Summorum Pontificuм
    « Reply #3 on: January 05, 2010, 12:48:45 PM »
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  • Quote
    (from Belloc) Among these reactionaries and revisionists are neo-Catholics who are converts from evangelical and fundamental Protestantism, who, it seems, have not divested themselves of their protestant baggage and have completely embraced the Catholic ethos, but have brought their excess baggage along with them after crossing the Tiber. Now that they are "firmly entrenched" and have become bona fide citizens of the City of God, they believe that it is incuмbent upon themselves to arrogate the appellation, "Catholic Apologist," and thus have out forward their interpretation of what Catholicism is.


    Now as Pope Benedict moves us closer to where we belong, watch the "Fifth Column" move into high gear.  I was in the diocese headed by Cardinal Ratzinger when I returned to the Catholic Church after years of wilderness, and I saw immediately that the Scott Hahn cult was blocking returning Catholics unless we would submit to a number of significant heresies that are included in the baggage of converts and supported by the heresies of N-O.

    I don't know where this Mark Shea figures in with Hahn,  but I see the same pattern of contempt.  Cardinal Ratzinger's staff, the ones I spoke to about the interference with traditional Catholics returning, were very supportive.

    That is the main reason I do not support the sedevacantists, even though I strongly sympathize. I do believe that we will see restoration with this Pope.

    I am praying a novena of rosary over nine days to see more, I am on day two.  

    Please join me in nine-day novenas to strengthen Pope Benedict, former Cardinal Ratzinger, in moving us back under the protection of the proper Liturgy.

    Offline Belloc

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    Mark Shea and Summorum Pontificuм
    « Reply #4 on: January 05, 2010, 12:55:56 PM »
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  • will do, very informative post

    yes, they-Hahn, Shea-like to boast they are Catholic, but prefer the sappy, NO type Catholicsm (a form really in most parishes of Romanized protestantism)
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic


    Offline Caraffa

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    Mark Shea and Summorum Pontificuм
    « Reply #5 on: January 05, 2010, 02:45:34 PM »
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  • From having read some of Mark Shea's writings, he is a big-tent Evangelical turned a big-tent (read cafeteria) Catholic. Even the Protestants he debates with have pointed this out to him.
    Pray for me, always.

    Offline littlerose

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    Mark Shea and Summorum Pontificuм
    « Reply #6 on: January 05, 2010, 04:06:52 PM »
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  • Quote from: Caraffa
    From having read some of Mark Shea's writings, he is a big-tent Evangelical turned a big-tent (read cafeteria) Catholic. Even the Protestants he debates with have pointed this out to him.


    Exactly like Hahn, who specialized in attacking Catholics before his "conversion", and who now specializes in attacking "cradle Catholics" and the Franciscans are allowing him to hide behind their robes while he trains his cadres and sends them to bust up the parishes.  

    I think it is important to point out to Protestant converts who may be reading this that in all charity, there is a difference between "joining" and "converting" and if you join the Catholic church without converting,  that is, if you receive the Sacraments and profess to believe according to Catholic doctrine, but you are still "protestant" in culture and interpretation of those doctrines, that does not interfere with your salvation or your fitness to witness to others. You are Catholic, you are saved, but the difference is that you may be misunderstanding a great deal of what you have received and until you fully comprehend the total character of the Catholic Church you really are not a "convert".  

    The Catholic Church differs from the Protestant in that our salvation is not dependent upon our understanding, it is dependent upon our obedience. Understanding this is important because too many protestant converts turn around and attack the very Catholics who converted them almost before their knees lift off the floor at their Confirmation.

    Offline littlerose

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    Mark Shea and Summorum Pontificuм
    « Reply #7 on: January 05, 2010, 05:33:22 PM »
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  • Quote from: littlerose
    Quote
    (from Belloc) Among these reactionaries and revisionists are neo-Catholics who are converts from evangelical and fundamental Protestantism, who, it seems, have not divested themselves of their protestant baggage and have completely embraced the Catholic ethos, but have brought their excess baggage along with them after crossing the Tiber. Now that they are "firmly entrenched" and have become bona fide citizens of the City of God, they believe that it is incuмbent upon themselves to arrogate the appellation, "Catholic Apologist," and thus have out forward their interpretation of what Catholicism is.
    .


    Major Correction! I made a mistake to refer to Cardinal Ratzinger as being in charge of the diocese in Houston. He was Pope at the time! My mistake is due to the conversation I had with someone in the Archdiocese office (in Galveston) because a layman, a pipsqueak Hahnist Formation Director, was telling me that an Austin diocese could not accept a confession as valid if it were made to a priest who was in the other diocese.  The staffperson who answered the phone in Galvston when I called quoted "Cardinal Ratzinger" to me about the heresy of Apologetics and referred all of his supportive remarks to me to Cardinal Ratzinger in such a way that I assumed he was talking about the local Bishop.

    I have no idea whether there was ever actually any kind of split between the two diocese, I suspect there was none, but he Hahnist was looking for every excuse he could find to block older Catholics or "cradle Catholics" from the Sacraments, and when he questioned me about the steps of return, he seized on the fact that I had made my Confession to a semi-retired priest who served local parishes from time to time.

    This was all such a surprise to me, a simple middle-aged woman who wanted nothing more than to start going to Mass on Sunday and engaging in Catholic prayer traditions during the week.  I had done what any lapsed Catholic would do: the day I made up my mind to return, I picked up the phone book and looked up the local Catholic church. Called up, spoke briefly with the pastor about having been outside the Church for 35 years, and he welcomed me and told me to make an appointment for a confession with the other priest.  I then went to that appointment and made a good Confession and then was advised to talk to the Formation director about the current activities and classes.

    Neither priest seemed to be aware that the young Formation director was turning older Catholics away (although when I made a stink about it, I heard that there was a long line of complainers ahead of me about the same thing, but the priests weren't doing anything about him.)

    I won't go into further details unless anyone is interested. That pipsqueak is now in charge of RCIA for a California parish and there were other changes, but I moved away and am happily not having to be in contact with any more such N-O foolishness, since I have found a good Traditional body that will support my normal Catholic credentials of having been baptized and confirmed in a recognized diocese and living a relatively moral life, (at least lately :thinking: ).


    Offline QuisUtDeus

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    Mark Shea and Summorum Pontificuм
    « Reply #8 on: January 06, 2010, 09:13:55 PM »
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  • I'm not a Canonist, but I'm willing to bet money that your confession was valid and the Church supplied jurisdiction in this case.  You had every reason to believe he had faculties.

    Sounds like nonsense to me.  Either the "pipsqueak" was ignorant or playing ignorant...

    Offline littlerose

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    Mark Shea and Summorum Pontificuм
    « Reply #9 on: January 06, 2010, 09:31:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: QuisUtDeus
    I'm not a Canonist, but I'm willing to bet money that your confession was valid and the Church supplied jurisdiction in this case.  You had every reason to believe he had faculties.

    Sounds like nonsense to me.  Either the "pipsqueak" was ignorant or playing ignorant...


    Oh, yes, Quis, you are right. After the priest backed me up over being acceptable he kept pulling stunts I am all too familiar with from my days in a crazy left-wing cult, things like calling meetings and  then changing locations and telling half the people, playing gossip-games, manipulating vulnerable people, etc. So I went to the diocese over it, because apparently the tactic involved switching pastors so often that the hirelings like this pipsqueak could run the show.  That guy is not even in Texas anymore and recently when I looked up his online presence, I noticed that he skips right over his career in Texas as if he has never been here, *lol*

    But the N-O fog has crippled the minds and perverted the consciences of too many in that parish and now I am glad to be in a city where, ironically, it is easier to withdraw into a monastic lifestyle than it was in that small town.