[LaramieHirsch]

So, I started to participate in this thread on CAF about the legitimacy of Hell.  I am feeling more compelled these days to participate and argue against those who reject God.  

And what I have beheld is intriguing.  

What is not intriguing is the fact that the atheists continue to ramble and ramble on nonsensically, growing more heads after I cut one off, starting new threads and accepting nothing I have to say.    That is not new.  

What is intriguing is that I haven't heard a single damned thing from any other Catholics who have witnessed this dialogue.  What I have heard (save one witness of the exchange) is mellow.  It seems as if all the Catholics are subdued when it comes to defending the faith against evil rejectors of Christ.  

So...are we to just "preach to the choir" in our own websites and parish communities with whatever we have to say as Catholics, until we become so weakened and our numbers dwindle so much that we are just stomped out?  Where is the boldness needed in this time?

I mean...it's not as if no one is watching.  The thread has almost 8,000 views.

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=647617

[Telesphorus]

Modernists are essentially atheists.  How do you expect people under modernist control to vigorously debate atheists?

CAF is modernist, shake the dust off your feet.

[Raoul76]

That is the inevitable result after you tell various people the truth about things only to be greeted with baffled stares and apathy.  At a certain point it becomes casting pearls before swine.  

I recognized this in myself the other day, I am now letting opportunities slip to talk about the faith.  I realize I just don't have any confidence that anyone will really turn around; or that I am going to be able to shepherd them to my CMRI chapel.  People are even asking me about religious stuff and I say "I don't want  to talk about it."  I have gone from being too confrontational to just not wanting to be bothered.  I think there is a happy medium here somewhere; I think the best thing to do is politely explain the way things are once, and then leave it there.

[wallflower]

What is intriguing is that I haven't heard a single damned thing from any other Catholics who have witnessed this dialogue.  What I have heard (save one witness of the exchange) is mellow.  It seems as if all the Catholics are subdued when it comes to defending the faith against evil rejectors of Christ.  

But doing that gets you labelled as mean and uncharitable. You have to tell people they don't make sense and use your religion instead of science to do so. Gasp!

Really though, that's a lot of it. Being a good or bad debater adds to it (which is why I don't do apologetics much, I'm terrible at it), we need to try to improve, but essentially being meek is translated to mean standing by and letting such things be said and done, letting the damage happen and just smiling sweetly at it. It is not a solid foundation for a successful debate. Doomed to fail. And strategically so by those who brought in that mentality.

[TKGS]

It is very difficult to defend the True Faith or to evangelize unbelievers when most self-professed Catholics are, themselves, unbelievers or, I should say, Freemasons in their doctrine.  And it is darn near impossible to do so in this age when probably 99% of the Conciliar clergy--the very face of the Church that the world sees--have abandoned all doctrine and no longer believe that there is any one particular Truth and that anything that contradicts that Truth is false and leads to damnation.  I cannot think of a single Conciliar bishop today who would actually publicly preach that anyone can be in danger of damnation in hell for eternity.

While Conciliar Catholics generally agree that hell exists, few would actually agree that it is populated.  So trying to convince atheists in the reality of hell is pretty much pointless to them.

The scandal given by Conciliar Catholics, both laity and clergy, makes it nearly impossible to convince anyone of the True Faith.  Most self-professed Catholics immediately reject any suggestion that there cannot be a multiplicity of Truths because their clergy, especially their pope, preach it in their words and actions.  Ecuмenism is the heresy that binds all men in hell.

[Exilenomore]

It seems to me that this will not be remedied as long as nominal Catholics do not convert to Catholicism. This might be our priority now if we want to make converts among the godless. In another thread on this forum, I saw someone write how in Iran, where she lives, Christendom is being identified with the pagan lifestyles of the apostate western nations, and that this is blocking the way for many potential converts to approach the salvific light of Christ Our Redeemer.

That is terrible. It means that the Christian faith is being confused with things which it radically opposes, but which are nevertheless being presented as Christian by the deceitful machinations of the world.

Thus, I repeat, I believe our priority to be this; to convert the nominal Catholics to Catholicism. Because of the modernists, the Name of God is being blasphemed among the nations.

[LaramieHirsch]

My atheist friend stated that the reason a Catholic cannot argue with an atheist, is because an atheist uses logic, while a Catholic uses faith, which is not logical.  

[alaric]

My atheist friend stated that the reason a Catholic cannot argue with an atheist, is because an atheist uses logic, while a Catholic uses faith, which is not logical.  

Just what "logic" is that?

Catholicism is based on Truth.

The atheist is just fooling himself that he has all the answers, he can't even prove something as simple as Evolution which is mostly hypothesis, an educated "guess".

Most of your brilliant minds through history had some kind of faith because when it comes right down to it, no one can prove the non existence of God, who by definition is a being with infinite knowledge, in order to disprove his existence you would have to have infinite knowledge of the universe yourself.

So in effect, the atheist says "Using infinite knowledge I will prove there isn't anyone or anything with infinite knowledge.

That's what they call and "Absolute negation".

In other words, illogical or nonsensical.

Ask the all-knowing atheist about that one.

[Matthew]

There's an easy answer to your question.

All the Catholics with zeal for truth, knowledge of the Faith, etc. get marginalized, censored, exasperated, even banned -- because most such Catholics end up traditionalist. Not to be high and mighty, but it's true. There are a few "good" Catholics in the Novus Ordo, but they are exceedingly rare.

And CAF is certainly hostile to even conservative Catholics, nevermind full-blown Traditionalists.

They made their bed; now they have to sleep in it.

Look at Fisheaters. Sure, it has plenty of problems, but why does it exist, and with so much traffic (and so many members)? Because people consider even FISHEATERS to be a breath of fresh air, where you can be traditional Catholic and not get persecuted for it. Many members formerly visited other mainstream Catholic fora like CAF, having experienced some degree of persecution.

Let's not forget that: CAF makes Fisheaters look as extreme "right wing" as a home-aloner Sedevacantist!

When in reality Fisheaters are quite mainstream; even worldly. The average member (if there is such a thing) is probably indult.

[Matthew]

Some might say Fisheaters is for beginner "trads", like elementary school, whereas CathInfo would be the equivalent of a university (circa 1800, when university education meant something).

[Marcelino]

So, I started to participate in this thread on CAF about the legitimacy of Hell.  I am feeling more compelled these days to participate and argue against those who reject God.  

And what I have beheld is intriguing.  

What is not intriguing is the fact that the atheists continue to ramble and ramble on nonsensically, growing more heads after I cut one off, starting new threads and accepting nothing I have to say.    That is not new.  

What is intriguing is that I haven't heard a single damned thing from any other Catholics who have witnessed this dialogue.  What I have heard (save one witness of the exchange) is mellow.  It seems as if all the Catholics are subdued when it comes to defending the faith against evil rejectors of Christ.  

So...are we to just "preach to the choir" in our own websites and parish communities with whatever we have to say as Catholics, until we become so weakened and our numbers dwindle so much that we are just stomped out?  Where is the boldness needed in this time?

I mean...it's not as if no one is watching.  The thread has almost 8,000 views.

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=647617

No doubt, Catholics behave like defeated people.  

[stevusmagnus]

What is intriguing is that I haven't heard a single damned thing from any other Catholics who have witnessed this dialogue.  What I have heard (save one witness of the exchange) is mellow.  It seems as if all the Catholics are subdued when it comes to defending the faith against evil rejectors of Christ.  

So...are we to just "preach to the choir" in our own websites and parish communities with whatever we have to say as Catholics, until we become so weakened and our numbers dwindle so much that we are just stomped out?  Where is the boldness needed in this time?

I mean...it's not as if no one is watching.  The thread has almost 8,000 views.

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=647617

Laramie,

You are 100% right on. We need to be fearless. We need to walk right into their lion's den and turn every ridiculous atheistic presupposition right back in their face. We need to present the truth to Neo-Caths and liberals no matter how many times they call us names, ban us, try to silence us, censure us, and ostracize us.

To do any less is to let them win by default. They have controlled the narrative for too long. They will keep playing the game and winning if we decide to stay in our ghettos.

The internet has provided a great opportunity for us. They can't control the information now. We have voices. We can get our narrative out. The true narrative. Expose the Catholic left in their own words. Go over the hierarchy's head and the heads of their apologists. Reach the people. Break stories. Force them to deal with it. Force them to engage and confront the real issues. The ones at there core of the crisis.

Their tactics so far have been to ignore us. Kill stories. Force obedience. Marginalize us. Lie about us. Ridicule us.

No more.

Time to start punching back. Go on offense. Be aggressive. Keep up the pressure. Force them to confront the misery their policies have caused over the last 50 years. Hold them accountable. Question their sacred cows. Plant doubt in the masses against their carefully strewn facade.

It's time to take our Church back.

[stevusmagnus]

That is the inevitable result after you tell various people the truth about things only to be greeted with baffled stares and apathy.  At a certain point it becomes casting pearls before swine.  

I recognized this in myself the other day, I am now letting opportunities slip to talk about the faith.  I realize I just don't have any confidence that anyone will really turn around; or that I am going to be able to shepherd them to my CMRI chapel.  People are even asking me about religious stuff and I say "I don't want  to talk about it."  I have gone from being too confrontational to just not wanting to be bothered.  I think there is a happy medium here somewhere; I think the best thing to do is politely explain the way things are once, and then leave it there.

Take the socratic approach. Try getting them to ask questions. Moderns love to question authority. Use that to your advantage. Start questioning their modern assumptions. Plant doubt. Stir their hunger for the truth. I've found this often works better than an hour long traditional explanation of apologetics. Just some food for thought. I've been very passive in the past as well. Avoiding disagreement just to keep the peace. That's going to change.

[Telesphorus]

CAF - Catholic Apostates Forum.

[SouthernBelle]

So, I started to participate in this thread on CAF about the legitimacy of Hell.  I am feeling more compelled these days to participate and argue against those who reject God.  

And what I have beheld is intriguing.  

What is not intriguing is the fact that the atheists continue to ramble and ramble on nonsensically, growing more heads after I cut one off, starting new threads and accepting nothing I have to say.    That is not new.  

What is intriguing is that I haven't heard a single damned thing from any other Catholics who have witnessed this dialogue.  What I have heard (save one witness of the exchange) is mellow. It seems as if all the Catholics are subdued when it comes to defending the faith against evil rejectors of Christ.  

So...are we to just "preach to the choir" in our own websites and parish communities with whatever we have to say as Catholics, until we become so weakened and our numbers dwindle so much that we are just stomped out?  Where is the boldness needed in this time?

I mean...it's not as if no one is watching.  The thread has almost 8,000 views.

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=647617

Subdued, or just sensible? I scanned that thread, and it seems a bit pointless to me. The atheists/agnostics don't really appear interested in learning or acquiring a different point of view, they're just using the internet as the virtual equivalent of preaching in Hyde Park.

It's important to use your time wisely, and internet debate with anonymous persons can be a massive time-waster. Just because Catholics don't contribute to a thread that is now 30+ pages long (which is a turn-off in and of itself, because someone new to the discussion has to catch up on a massive amount of information) doesn't mean that they're not defending the faith.