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Author Topic: Can we ever completely loose our salvation whilst on earth  (Read 536 times)

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Offline xavierpope

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Can we ever completely loose our salvation whilst on earth
« on: March 10, 2018, 05:07:00 PM »
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    • Hi all,

    Quick question, just wondering if we can ever loose our salvation whilst on earth and not get it back even through confession. Thoughts?
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    Offline Student of Qi

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    Re: Can we ever completely loose our salvation whilst on earth
    « Reply #1 on: March 10, 2018, 05:18:19 PM »
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    • Quote from: xavierpope on March 10, 2018, 05:07:00 PM
    Hi all,

    Quick question, just wondering if we can ever loose our salvation whilst on earth and not get it back even through confession. Thoughts?
    Quick answer: NO!! That would fall under the Calvinistic belief of "Predestination" which is heresy and against God's Infinite Love and Mercy. God would have even forgave the traitor Judas if he would have just repented.
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    Many people say "For the Honor and Glory of God!" but, what they should say is "For the Love, Glory and Honor of God". - Fr. Paul of Moll

    Offline xavierpope

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    Re: Can we ever completely loose our salvation whilst on earth
    « Reply #2 on: March 11, 2018, 05:23:02 PM »
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    • even during the great tribulation?
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Can we ever completely loose our salvation whilst on earth
    « Reply #3 on: March 11, 2018, 07:37:55 PM »
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    • Quote from: xavierpope on March 10, 2018, 05:07:00 PM
    Hi all,

    Quick question, just wondering if we can ever loose our salvation whilst on earth....
    What salvation? If we just make it to purgatory till the end of time it is only by the mercy of God.
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    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline xavierpope

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    Re: Can we ever completely loose our salvation whilst on earth
    « Reply #4 on: March 11, 2018, 07:59:52 PM »
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    • fine, HOPE of salvation.
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Can we ever completely loose our salvation whilst on earth
    « Reply #5 on: March 11, 2018, 08:29:35 PM »
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    • Quote from: xavierpope on March 10, 2018, 05:07:00 PM
    Hi all,

    Quick question, just wondering if we can ever loose our salvation whilst on earth and not get it back even through confession. Thoughts?
    After all my years of study on the subject of salvation, I  have concluded that not one person of good will is lost. If we truly seek God, He  will provide us with EVERYTHING for our salvation. When we die, we will learn the truth, that maybe we leaned 1/1000 of 1% toward God and he did the rest. The problem is that few people are of good will. Scarcely anyone is saved

    "Before all decision to create the world, the infinite knowledge of God presents to Him all the graces, and different series of graces, which He can prepare for each soul, along with the consent or refusal which would follow in each circuмstance, and that in millions of possible combinations ... Thus, for each man in particular there are in the thought of God, limitless possible histories, some histories of virtue and salvation, others of crime and damnation; and God will be free in choosing such a world, such a series of graces, and in determining the future history and final destiny of each soul. And this is precisely what He does when among all possible worlds, by an absolutely free act, he decides to realize the actual world with all the circuмstances of its historic evolutions, with all the graces which in fact have been and will be distributed until the end of the world, and consequently with all the elect and all the reprobate who God foresaw would be in it if de facto He created it." [The Catholic Encyclopedia Appleton, 1909, on Augustine, pg 97]


    In other words before a man is conceived, God in his infinite knowledge has already put that person through the test with millions of possible combinations and possible histories, some histories of virtue and salvation, others of crime and damnation; along with the consent or refusal which would follow in each circuмstance (of millions of possible combinations!!!) and God will be free in determining which future history and final destiny He assigns each soul.


    THE TEACHINGS OF THE FATHERS, DOCTORS AND SAINTS OF THE CHURCH UPON THE FINAL DESTINY OF MOST PEOPLE.




    1) Notwithstanding assurances that God did not create any man for Hell, and that He wishes all men to be saved, it remains equally true that few will be saved; that only few will go to Heaven; and that the greater part of mankind will be lost forever. (St. John Neuman)



    2) It is certain that few are saved. (St. Augustine)



    3) The majority of men shall not see God. (St. Julian the Martyr)



    4) Those who are saved are in the minority. ( St. Thomas Aquinas)



    5) The greater part of men choose to be damned rather than to love almighty God. (St. Alphonsus Liguori)



    6) So vast a number of miserable souls perish, and so comparatively few are saved. (St. Philip Neri)



    7) Among adults there are few saved because of the sins of the flesh....With exception of those who die in childhood, most men will be damned. (St. Remigius of Rheims)



    8) Death bed conversions/repentance-there are hardly any:   Out of 100,000 sinners who continue in sin until death, scarcely ONE will be saved. (St. Jerome)



    9) The MAJORITY OF CATHOLICS GO TO HELL:



    a) The greater number of Christians today are damned. The destiny of those dying on one day is that very few  -  not as many as ten  -   went straight to Heaven; many remained in Purgatory; and THOSE CAST INTO HELL WERE NUMEROUS AS SNOWFLAKES in mid-winter. (Bl. Anna Maria Taigi)



    b) There are many who arrive at the faith, but few who are led to the heavenly kingdom. Behold how many are gathered here for today's Feast-Day; we fill the church from wall to wall. Yet who knows how FEW they are who shall be numbered in that chosen company of the elect? (Pope St. Gregory the Great)



    c) The Ark, which in the midst of the Flood was the symbol of the Church, was wide below and narrow above, .... It was wide where the animals were, narrow where men lived; for the Holy Church is indeed wide in number of those who are carnal minded, narrow in the number of those who are spiritual.

    ( Pope St. Gregory the Great)



    d) Shall we all be saved? Shall we go to heaven? Alas, my children we do not know at all! But I tremble when I see so many souls lost these days. See, they fall into Hell as leaves fall from the trees at the approach of winter. (St. John Vianney)



    10) MOST PRIESTS GO TO HELL:



    St. John Chrysostom, Patriarch of Constantinople, Doctor of the Church:



    I do not speak rashly, but as I feel and think., I do not think that many priests are saved but that those that perish are far more numerous. The reason is that the office requires a great soul. For there are many things to make a priest swerve from rectitude, and he requires great vigilance on every side. Do you not perceive how many qualities a bishop must have that he may be apt to teach; patient towards the wicked, firm and faithful in teaching the Word? How many difficulties herein.



    Moreover the loss of others is imputed to him. I need say no more. If but one dies without baptism, does it not entirely endanger his salvation? For the loss of one soul is so great an evil as no man can understand. If the salvation of one soul is of such importance that, for its sake, the Son of God became man and suffered so much, think of the penalty the loss of one soul will entail. (Third Homily, Acts of the Apostles)



    b) Many religious go to Hell because they do not keep their vows. (St. Vincent Ferrer)





    CATHOLICS NOT ASPIRING AND NOT LIVING AS SAINTS WILL GO TO HELL:



    a) They who are enlightened to walk in the way of perfection, and through lukewarmness wish to tread the ordinary paths, shall be abandoned. (Bl. Angela of Foligno)



    b) They who are to be saved as Saints, and wish to be saved as imperfect souls, shall not be saved. (Pope St. Gregory the Great)



    c) St. Teresa.... had she not risen from the state of lukewarmness in which she lived, she would in the end have lost the grace of God and been damned. ( St. Alphonsus Liguori)



    14) How many inhabitants of this city may perhaps be saved? What I am about to say is very terrible, yet I will not conceal it from you. Out of this thickly populated city with it's thousands of inhabitants, not 100 people will be saved. I even doubt whether there will be as many as that! ( St. John Chrysostom - the city was Antioch and its inhabitants were known to be in pursuit of comfort and the good things of life.)



    15) A multitude of souls fall into the depths of Hell. (St. Anthony Mary Claret - It has been revealed that on the day of the death of St. Bernard there also died 79,997 other people, and of this total of 80,000 who died, only St. Bernard and two other monks were saved.)



    16) In the great deluge in the days of Noah, all mankind perished, eight persons alone being saved in the Ark. In our days a deluge, not of water, but sins, continually inundates the earth, and out of this deluge very few escape. Scarcely anyone is saved. ( St. Alphonsus Liguori)



    17) Yes indeed, many will be damned; few will be saved. (St. Benedict Joseph Labro)



    18) If you only knew the women who will go to Hell because they did not bring into the world the children they should have given to it. ( St. John Vianney)



    19) He who goes to Hell, goes of his own accord. Everyone who is damned, is damned because he wills his own damnation. (St. Alphonsus Liguori)



    20) THOSE WHO HAVE HEARD NOTHING ABOUT THE FAITH CAN ALSO GO TO HELL:



    a) When such unbelievers are damned, it is on account of other sins, which cannot be taken away without the faith, but not because of their sin of unbelief. (St. Thomas Aquinas)



    b) Everyone that is of truth hears my voice. (St. John 18:37)



    c) It may be true that there are, in the remotest parts of the world, some people who have not yet seen the light of the Savior. Certainly, God's manifold and ineffable goodness has always provided, and still provides, for all mankind in such a way that not one of the reprobates can find an excuse as though he had been refused the light of truth. ( St. Prosper of Aquitaine)



    d) No one is lost without knowing it, and no one is deceived without wanting to be. (St. Teresa of Avila)



    21) OUTSIDE OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, THERE IS NO SALVATION:



    a) No matter how praiseworthy his actions might seem, he who is separated from the Catholic Church will never enjoy eternal life (Pope Gregory XVI)



    b) O ye atheists who do not believe in God, what fools you are ! But if you do believe there is a God, you must also believe there is a true religion. And if not the Roman Catholic, which is it? Perhaps that of the pagans who admit many gods, thus they deny them all. Perhaps that of Mohammed, a religion invented by an impostor and framed for beasts rather than humans. Perhaps that of the Jєωs who had the true faith at one time but, because they rejected their redeemer, lost their faith, their country, their everything. Perhaps that of the heretics who, separating themselves from our Church, have confused all revealed dogmas in such a way that the belief of one heretic is contrary to that of his neighbor. O holy faith! Enlighten all those poor blind creatures who run to eternal perdition! (St. Alphonsus Liguori)
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    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline xavierpope

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    Re: Can we ever completely loose our salvation whilst on earth
    « Reply #6 on: March 11, 2018, 08:42:22 PM »
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    • cheerful.
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Can we ever completely loose our salvation whilst on earth
    « Reply #7 on: March 12, 2018, 10:50:48 AM »
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    • What follows is a story that my wife heard in an SSPX retreat in Ridgefield in 1999. I have not found it online and so I introduce it here as I remember it:

     

    Johnnie and His Little White Rabbit

     

    "The father of the house came home and called all his children together. He then told them if they gathered up all of their toys, every single last one of them, and gave them away to the poor, that he would then buy them new toys, much more toys, and better toys. However, they had to give away every single toy or else they would not get anything.

     

    The next day the father came home and found a big pile of toys stacked in the living room. He asked the children; is that all the toys, every single last one of them? All the children answered yes, but Johnnie. Johnnie was holding his hands behind his back. His father asked him, Johnnie, did you put all your toys in the pile? Johnnie answered yes, father. The father asked him, Johnnie, what do you have behind your back, show me your hands. Then Johnnie showed his little white stuffed rabbit, his favorite companion. His father said, Johnnie, remember, in order to get  the new toys, much more toys than you have now, better toys, you have to give everything away, everything Johnnie. Johnnie answered back, no Daddy, not my little white rabbit, no, I can’t give him away".



     

    (The father is Our Lord Jesus Christ, the toys are man’s earthly attachments which cause them to never receive sanctifying grace or to lose it. The new gifts are sanctifying grace and ultimately eternal bliss in Heaven)

     



     



     



     

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    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24
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