Author Topic: Can God seduce any body?  (Read 1770 times)

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Offline spouse of Jesus

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Can God seduce any body?
« on: January 09, 2009, 01:07:45 PM »
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  • why Jeremiah says:Lord,you have seduced me and I was seduced"?

    Offline trent13

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    Can God seduce any body?
    « Reply #1 on: January 09, 2009, 03:17:40 PM »
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  • That seems like one of those mind twister questions dealing with free will and Divine Providence.  I don't know what the phrase is (Gordian knot?) but it *seems* (and I realize this can't be the case) that if faith is a grace and conversion is a grace, then there isn't any room for human free will in the equasion... so why can't God just convert the whole world?  


    Offline Stephanos II

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    Can God seduce any body?
    « Reply #2 on: January 09, 2009, 08:18:58 PM »
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  • Quote from: spouse of Jesus
    why Jeremiah says:Lord,you have seduced me and I was seduced"?


    By any chance is this the verse you are talking about?

    Jer:31:18:
    18 ¶ Hearing I heard Ephraim when he went into captivity: thou hast chastised me, and I was instructed, as a young bullock unaccustomed to the yoke. Convert me, and I shall be converted, for thou art the Lord my God. (DRV)

    In this case Ephraim is the one who is saying this. There is plenty of room here for free will to answer God's chastisement. The second part shows the assent of Ephraim's free will. Ephraim is not a person here, but instead represents a group of people. Each of them would have an individual choice to make.

    Offline spouse of Jesus

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    Can God seduce any body?
    « Reply #3 on: January 10, 2009, 04:13:34 AM »
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  • but to seduce means to decieve.can God decieve anybody?

    Offline Stephanos II

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    Can God seduce any body?
    « Reply #4 on: January 10, 2009, 03:09:23 PM »
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  • Quote from: spouse of Jesus
    but to seduce means to decieve.can God decieve anybody?


    NO.


    Here are all the New Testament verses concerning the word seduce.

    Mt:24:4:
    4 ¶ And Jesus answering, said to them: Take heed that no man seduce you. (DRV)

    Mt:24:5:
    5  For many will come in my name saying, I am Christ. And they will seduce many. (DRV)

    Mt:24:11:
    11  And many false prophets shall rise and shall seduce many. (DRV)

    Mt:27:63:
    63  Saying: Sir, we have remembered, that that seducer said, while he was yet alive: After three days I will rise again. (DRV)

    Mk:13:22:
    22  For there will rise up false Christs and false prophets: and they shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce (if it were possible) even the elect. (DRV)

    Lk:21:8:
    8  Who said: Take heed you be not seduced: for many will come in my name, saying: I am he and the time is at hand. Go ye not therefore after them. (DRV)

    Jn:7:12:
    12  And there was much murmuring among the multitude concerning him. For some said: He is a good man. And others said: No, but he seduceth the people. (DRV)

    Jn:7:47:
    47  The Pharisees therefore answered them: Are you also seduced? (DRV)

    Rom:7:11:
    11  For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, seduced me: and by it killed me. (DRV)

    Rom:16:18:
    18  For they that are such serve not Christ our Lord but their own belly: and by pleasing speeches and good words seduce the hearts of the innocent. (DRV)

    1Cor:15:33:
    33  Be not seduced: Evil communications corrupt good manners. (DRV)

    2Cor:11:3:
    3  But I fear lest, as the serpent seduced Eve by his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted and fall from the simplicity that is in Christ. (DRV)

    Col:2:18:
    18  Let no man seduce you, willing in humility and religion of angels, walking in the things which he hath not seen, in vain puffed up by the sense of his flesh: (DRV)

    1Tm:2:14:
    14  And Adam was not seduced; but the woman, being seduced, was in the transgression. (DRV)

    2Tm:3:13:
    13  But evil men and seducers shall grow worse and worse: erring, and driving into error, (DRV)

    Ti:1:10:
    10  For there are also many disobedient, vain talkers and seducers: especially they who are of the circumcision. (DRV)

    1Jn:2:26:
    26  These things have I written to you concerning them that seduce you. (DRV)

    2Jn:1:7:
    7 ¶ For many seducers are gone out into the world who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a seducer and an antichrist. (DRV)

    Rv:2:20:
    20  But I have against thee a few things: because thou sufferest the woman Jezabel, who calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants, to commit fornication and to eat of things sacrificed to idols. (DRV)

    Rv:12:9:
    9  And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, who seduceth the whole world. And he was cast unto the earth: and his angels were thrown down with him. (DRV)

    Rv:13:14:
    14  And he seduced them that dwell on the earth, for the signs which were given him to do in the sight of the beast: saying to them that dwell on the earth that they should make the image of the beast which had the wound by the sword and lived. (DRV)

    Rv:19:20:
    20  And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet who wrought signs before him, wherewith he seduced them who received the character of the beast and who adored his image. These two were cast alive into the pool of fire burning with brimstone. (DRV)

    Rv:20:3:
    3  And he cast him into the bottomless pit and shut him up and set a seal upon him, that he should no more seduce the nations till the thousand years be finished. And after that, he must be loosed a little time. (DRV)

    Rv:20:7:
    7  And when the thousand years shall be finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison and shall go forth and seduce the nations which are over the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog: and shall gather them together to battle, the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. (DRV)

     Rv:20:9:
    9  And there cane down fire from God out of heaven and devoured them: and the devil, who seduced them, was cast into the pool of fire and brimstone, where both the beast (DRV)



    Here are all the Old Testament verses where the word seduce occurs.

    Ex:22:16:
    16 ¶ If a man seduce a virgin not yet espoused, and lie with her: he shall endow her, and have her to wife. (DRV)

    2Kgs:21:9:
    9  But they hearkened not: but were seduced by Manasses, to do evil more than the nations which the Lord destroyed before the children of Israel. (DRV)

    2Chr:33:9:
    9  So Manasses seduced Juda, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to do evil beyond all the nations, which the Lord had destroyed before the face of the children of Israel. (DRV)

    Neh:1:7:
    7  We have been seduced by vanity, and have not kept thy commandments, and ceremonies and judgments, which thou hast commanded thy servant Moses. (DRV)

    Prv:5:20:
    20  Why art thou seduced, my son, by a strange woman, and art cherished in the bosom of another? (DRV)



    In all of the above verses, which is every verse where the word seduce occurs, NOT ONCE DOES IT SAY THAT GOD SEDUCES ANYONE

    The word seduce does not occur in Jeremiah the Prophet.

    Here is an interlinear Latin English Bible with links to Greek and Aramaic Bibles. Find me where it says God ever seduced anyone. It isn't there. Go to this link and use the links at the top of that page there as well:

    http://vulgate.org/ot/jeremiah_1.htm

    Where in Jeremiah do you think you are talking about? Chapter and Verse please.


    Offline spouse of Jesus

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    Can God seduce any body?
    « Reply #5 on: January 11, 2009, 09:21:57 AM »
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  • Oh I saw such a verse on the web.

    Offline Stephanos II

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    Can God seduce any body?
    « Reply #6 on: January 11, 2009, 10:57:59 AM »
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  • Quote from: spouse of Jesus
    Oh I saw such a verse on the web.


    It is no verse from the Bible. It is someone's vain imagination.

     

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