Author Topic: Can a Catholic believe the gift of tongues has ceased? (Read 3061 times)

twiceborn · « **on:** September 13, 2010, 02:27:11 PM »

Just wondering about this as I have seen this view affirmed by a couple of catholics and also on the SSPX website.

Thanks,

Telesphorus · « **Reply #1 on:** September 13, 2010, 02:30:01 PM »

Quote from: twiceborn

Just wondering about this as I have seen this view affirmed by a couple of catholics and also on the SSPX website.

Thanks,

Well, any instances of the gift of tongues would not be a matter of public revelation. It seems to me that if someone speaks in tongues and you (and hopefully others) are able to interpret it that you would believe it was happening.

However, I do not think there is any obligation to believe someone else who claims they are speaking in tongues.

Certainly not those Pentecostalists.

Matto · « **Reply #2 on:** September 13, 2010, 03:57:13 PM »

I do not know of any people who have the ability to speak in tongues. Speaking in gibberish that nobody can understand is not the gift of tongues. I do not think there is anything wrong with thinking the gift of tongues has ceased for now, provided that you believe that God can at any time give his saints the gift of tongues again as he did to the apostles.

The gift of tongues is a great gift. It may be like the ability to raise the dead or to move mountains (I have heard two stories about saints who did indeed move mountains), which is not common and requires more faith than most of us poor sinners have.

If someone claimed that the gift of tongues has ceased forever, I would ask him if it was part of public revelation that the gift of tongues would cease after so many years and never return. For all we know, maybe when Enoch and Elias come down from Heaven to preach against the Anti-Christ among their many gifts will be the gift of tongues.

I may be wrong on this. I know very little.

spouse of Jesus · « **Reply #3 on:** September 13, 2010, 04:19:11 PM »

I wonder if we all have faith less than a mustard seed? :cry:

MaterDominici · « **Reply #4 on:** September 13, 2010, 06:11:00 PM »

What exactly did the gift of tongues originally look like?

I had thought at first that it was a sort of universal speach that everyone understood, but then read St. Paul's instruction that interpretation should be provided so that the faithful present could understand.

I still don't know if this was along the lines of speaking a foreign language or more like speaking jibberish which could then be interpreted by someone else with this gift?

MyrnaM · « **Reply #5 on:** September 13, 2010, 07:43:08 PM »

Isn't it true that when someone is possessed by the devil, they also can speak languages they normally would not be able too.

I would be very careful if someone was speaking in tongues, or claimed to. The way it was explained to me, was that gift was for the early Christians to help spread the truth to people that did not speak their language.

This is no longer necessary.

twiceborn · « **Reply #6 on:** September 13, 2010, 07:49:52 PM »

Quote from: MyrnaM

I would be very careful if someone was speaking in tongues, or claimed to. The way it was explained to me, was that gift was for the early Christians to help spread the truth to people that did not speak their language.

This is no longer necessary.

Yes, a gift given for a time but which has passed. That is very much my positon on them.

Matto · « **Reply #7 on:** September 13, 2010, 08:44:03 PM »

Mary of Agreda had the gift of tongues which enabled her to communicate with the natives in the New World who she miraculously appeared to and evangelized. According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, St. Francis Xavier and St. Vincent Ferrer also may have had this gift.

CathMomof7 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 14, 2010, 08:38:18 AM »

Quote from: MyrnaM

Isn't it true that when someone is possessed by the devil, they also can speak languages they normally would not be able too.

I would be very careful if someone was speaking in tongues, or claimed to. The way it was explained to me, was that gift was for the early Christians to help spread the truth to people that did not speak their language.

This is no longer necessary.

Myrna, this is exactly the way my SSPX priest explained this recently. In our time, we must be careful that we are not confusing what is of the Devil for what is of God.

There are many things that God allowed and were necessary during the Apostolic Age that are not necessary now. The gift of speaking in tongues is obvious. How else were the Apostles supposed to convert those of other nations? Since this is no longer necessary, God rarely gifts it. I can see how the missionary saints in recent times needed this gift to convert the ignorant in tribal communities. It just make sense.

In a previous life, I was a pentecostal. The practice is perfectly creepy. I was one of the few who never "received" the Holy Ghost in any capacity. Hmmm.....

St. Augustine said this:
"Who in our day expects that those on whom hands are laid so that they may receive the Holy Spirit should forthwith speak with tongues....These signs were adapted to the times. For there behooved to be that betokening of the Spirit in all tongues to show that the Gospel of God was to run through all the tongues over the earth. But that thing was done for the betokening, and it has passed away." (Quoted from Minority Religions in America by William Whalen, 1971)

We could get into a very long discussion about the Charismatics, their influence on the Catholic Church, their erroneous belief system, and how that truly effects people. It could be interesting. But I will say this.

Be very cautious and skeptical. I am not saying that God cannot give a person the gift of speaking in tongues. He can certainly do whatever He wants. But God doesn't do anything without purpose. The Devil also doesn't do anything without purpose. And he will gladly sit by while people pray, shout, and raise their hands all while speaking jibberish as long as the path at the end is Hell.

Belloc · « **Reply #9 on:** September 14, 2010, 08:42:13 AM »

Quote from: twiceborn

Just wondering about this as I have seen this view affirmed by a couple of catholics and also on the SSPX website.

Thanks,

speaking in tongues was a 1st century gift that is no longer required, if they speak in tongues, what tongues? usually it is mumbo-jumbo, indicative of mental illness or hoax. if not, then likely they are :devil2: in them.....

Elizabeth · « **Reply #10 on:** September 14, 2010, 09:02:32 AM »

Quote from: CathMomof7

We could get into a very long discussion about the Charismatics, their influence on the Catholic Church, their erroneous belief system, and how that truly effects people. It could be interesting.

Why not start a thread about this? It would be very interesting and informative. :jumping2:

Matto · « **Reply #11 on:** September 14, 2010, 11:47:26 AM »

Quote from: Belloc

speaking in tongues was a 1st century gift that is no longer required, if they speak in tongues, what tongues? usually it is mumbo-jumbo, indicative of mental illness or hoax. if not, then likely they are :devil2: in them.....

I agree that what most people today call speaking in tongues resembles demonic possession or insanity more than anything else, but we should not confuse this with the true gift of tongues which God has given to some of the early Christians and to certain saints at times after the age of the apostles when it was necessary for these saints to evangelize those who spoke other languages.

MaterDominici · « **Reply #12 on:** September 14, 2010, 11:49:00 AM »

Quote from: Elizabeth

Quote from: CathMomof7

We could get into a very long discussion about the Charismatics, their influence on the Catholic Church, their erroneous belief system, and how that truly effects people. It could be interesting.

Why not start a thread about this? It would be very interesting and informative. :jumping2:

I too think this would be an interesting discussion and would love to hear the insights of anyone previously involved with charismatic movements. I understand Catholic charismatic groups were very popular on Catholic college campuses in the 70s.

innocenza · « **Reply #13 on:** September 15, 2010, 11:14:09 AM »

Hi, all--

FWIW on the subject of glossolalia, I think the speech itself is unrecognizable, rather than, even in the time of the first Christian Pentecost, some universally recognizable communication -- which I would doubt ever existed except at the time of and for a while after the Creation. When the Jєωs of all nations heard the apostles speaking in tongues, I think the phenomenon was that each hearer was able to understand the unrecognizable speech form in his own native language.

Before I was even a Novus Ordo Catholic, I attended Mass. Having been told about 'healing Masses' at a particular RC Church, I had a couple of experiences of what Catholic Charismatics were, although at that time I didn't have either the term or the concept. Of course I was not capable of knowing anyone else's mind or heart; but it was not at all congenial to me, nor was it at all what I expected of Catholicism. In addition to glossolalia, people were doing what they called 'resting in the Lord'.

It is my belief, based on talking to a Protestant neighbor and a Protestant acquaintance, that the less fundamentalist Protestant churches today, although they do not disbelieve in glossolalia, do not countenance its practice during their services: because, as St. Paul explained, even in his time it was not of benefit to those who heard, unless there were someone to interpret the unrecognizable speech for them. (In fact my Protestant neighbor had told me that her previous church had actually split apart, due to a situation in which one person in the congregation had begun speaking in tongues during the worship service and the pastor had neglected/failed to silence him.)

Thank you, Fr. Benedict Groeschel, on behalf of the Novus Ordo Church, for your invaluable assistance. [Attempt at sardonic humor.]

spouse of Jesus · « **Reply #14 on:** September 15, 2010, 11:26:20 AM »

Quote from: MaterDominici

Quote from: Elizabeth
Quote from: CathMomof7

We could get into a very long discussion about the Charismatics, their influence on the Catholic Church, their erroneous belief system, and how that truly effects people. It could be interesting.

Why not start a thread about this? It would be very interesting and informative. :jumping2:

I too think this would be an interesting discussion and would love to hear the insights of anyone previously involved with charismatic movements. I understand Catholic charismatic groups were very popular on Catholic college campuses in the 70s.

Only if that thread won't end in naming names and arguing about whether this or that particual priest or organization are charismatic or not.