Author Topic: Calling out Telesphorus (Read 17026 times)

s2srea · « **Reply #45 on:** October 25, 2011, 01:03:53 PM »

@caminus:

I wish you woulnd't have brought out those most uncharitable comments I made. I'm very ashamed of them.

Caminus · « **Reply #46 on:** October 25, 2011, 01:07:38 PM »

I think they were certainly deserved, but that aside, don't you find it strange that you can reflect upon yourself and feel ashamed about these words while Telesphorus not only does not repent, does not reflect, but lashes out yet again and is emboldened even further? That is because you possess charity whereas Telesphorus is consumed by hatred.

s2srea · « **Reply #47 on:** October 25, 2011, 01:13:40 PM »

Quote from: Caminus

I think they were certainly deserved, but that aside, don't you find it strange that you can reflect upon yourself and feel ashamed about these words while Telesphorus not only does not repent, does not reflect, but lashes out yet again and is emboldened even further? That is because you possess charity whereas Telesphorus is consumed by hatred.

Matt- I'm not here to continually point out Tele's flaws. He has them, yes; I recognize them; I even point them out when I need to. What is your objective here? You're upset that he's spoken wrongly of the SSPX, and I mostly agree with you here. But why are you worried about it? If the society is as good and great as you think, why should you worry about this one man who speaks against them excessively? Is not the Society bigger than one Tele? Are you going to continually point out his weaknesses because you think you're the only one who see's whats wrong with his going about on this point?

Have you ever prayed for him?

Caminus · « **Reply #48 on:** October 25, 2011, 01:15:34 PM »

Yes, speaking in terms of virtue rather than in myopic, compartmentalized categories that paralyze rational thought ending in a multitude of sins, certainly deserves thumbsdown from every normal thinking Catholic! It's easier for the one with an agenda to speak in generic, sweeping, organizational terms; it's easier to hide behind "group terms" so as to avoid any personal responsibility, even though he's defamed many Catholics here by calling them liars, cultists, etc. in the face of any opposition.

Caminus · « **Reply #49 on:** October 25, 2011, 01:21:31 PM »

Quote from: s2srea

Quote from: Caminus
I think they were certainly deserved, but that aside, don't you find it strange that you can reflect upon yourself and feel ashamed about these words while Telesphorus not only does not repent, does not reflect, but lashes out yet again and is emboldened even further? That is because you possess charity whereas Telesphorus is consumed by hatred.

Matt- I'm not here to continually point out Tele's flaws. He has them, yes; I recognize them; I even point them out when I need to. What is your objective here? You're upset that he's spoken wrongly of the SSPX, and I mostly agree with you here. But why are you worried about it? If the society is as good and great as you think, why should you worry about this one man who speaks against them excessively? Is not the Society bigger than one Tele? Are you going to continually point out his weaknesses because you think you're the only one who see's whats wrong with his going about on this point?

Have you ever prayed for him?

Rich, this is an SSPX board and I have grown weary of this man's perverted agenda. It's not about his personal weaknesses, we all have them. Rather it is about holding someone accountable for this unnecessary, insulting behavior on an SSPX board. The object is the seeking of justice and charity, not to pick on him personally. If someone were to continually insult your mother, for example, unjustly accusing her of terrible things, would you stand for it or would you attempt to correct them at very least? There was a time when an accuser in court was bound to prove his case, otherwise retaliation would be the result. It's a basic premise of justice.

Do I pray for him? Of course, I pray for all whom I know or come into contact with, in reality or virtually, everyday.

Has he ever once expressed sorrow for his sins here? One apology anywhere? Does he pray for people? Has he ever prayed for anything but to satiate his own will and desire?

Has he ever blamed himself for anything?

Have any of us ever blamed ourselves for the crisis in the Church? Have we ever begged God for true Wisdom and pleaded not to be deluded? Has anywhere here ever wept for the state of the Church?

St. Catherine of Sienna blamed herself for the corruption of the Church in her times, yet she was sinless. She asked to be punished for the sins of Catholics in their stead. The answer to that puzzle may well solve our current crisis today.

s2srea · « **Reply #50 on:** October 25, 2011, 01:23:44 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

If the SSPX leadership, and priests and laity who behave unjustly don't want to be criticized by me, then they can start acting like honest Catholics. Until they start acting like Catholics, I will criticize them.

And what specifically will prove to you that they will act like honest Catholics? Just so you know, your continual slander against them is itself un-Catholic; a more Catholic thing to do would be to say your peace, once, and pray for them.

You obviously do not engage with them directly anymore, so how would you know if they were, according to you, to start acting "Catholic"? You expect a phone call from all the people who you felt treated you badly? That's a little off the wall logic there Leonard. So while Caminus is not going about this properly either, it would be good to admit to yourself that perhaps you also could better handle this issue.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #51 on:** October 25, 2011, 01:26:15 PM »

Looking at that list that Caminus posted I must say I feel that the things I said are for the most part justified. Anyone reading that and taking it to heart will hopefully be influenced to see things my way. So I thank Caminus for posting it. Without context, of course.

If people think there's not a "cult mentality" that infects parts of the SSPX - if they think that there isn't a cabal of sorts surrounding Bishop Fellay, then they are not seeing things clearly.

s2srea · « **Reply #52 on:** October 25, 2011, 01:29:49 PM »

Quote from: Caminus

Rich, this is an SSPX board and I have grown weary of this man's perverted agenda. It's not about his personal weaknesses, we all have them. Rather it is about holding someone accountable for this unnecessary, insulting behavior on an SSPX board. The object is the seeking of justice and charity, not to pick on him personally. If someone were to continually insult your mother, for example, unjustly accusing her of terrible things, would you stand for it or would you attempt to correct them at very least? There was a time when an accuser in court was bound to prove his case, otherwise retaliation would be the result. It's a basic premise of justice.

Do I pray for him? Of course, I pray for all whom I know or come into contact with, in reality or virtually, everyday.

Has he ever once expressed sorrow for his sins here? One apology anywhere? Does he pray for people? Has he ever prayed for anything but to satiate his own will and desire?

Well I'm not going to stay on this issue much longer. I'll say this though, I don't condemn what you're doing, but I think its good to realize that people who stay on here enough, enough to read through Tele's unfair posts, can indeed see his 'agenda'. If they agree with him, then they though unfairly about the Society from the get go- so who really cares. I doubt he's creating any real conversion from Society supporters.

And you have to remember that this is not only SSPX, but a "SSPX and other Traditional Catholics" board. And we are not in a court where anything has to be proven to anyone. We all know that everything presented here, SSPX, CMRI, the Great Monarch, +Fellay vs +Williamson, Nirubu, post-VII Politics, and everything, should be taken with a grain of salt.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #53 on:** October 25, 2011, 01:30:55 PM »

Quote from: s2srea

And what specifically will prove to you that they will act like honest Catholics? Just so you know, your continual slander against them is itself un-Catholic; a more Catholic thing to do would be to say your peace, once, and pray for them.

I don't consider it slander. Maybe sometimes I've gone too far, but for the most part, it's on the mark. Look at what Bishop Williamson has said. What I am saying is just the elaboration of what Bishop Williamson has said in principle.

Quote

You obviously do not engage with them directly anymore, so how would you know if they were, according to you, to start acting "Catholic"? You expect a phone call from all the people who you felt treated you badly?

I don't expect it, but I will tell the truth about what happened when I'm asked about it, and I am owed it. I am their creditor.

Quote

So while Caminus is not going about this properly either, it would be good to admit to yourself that perhaps you also could better handle this issue.

Yes, that's true, but let's not forget that I am often provoked, which accounts for going too far sometimes.

s2srea · « **Reply #54 on:** October 25, 2011, 01:32:42 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Looking at that list that Caminus posted I must say I feel that the things I said are for the most part justified.

Tele we should learn what it means to be practical.

Overstating anything is counter productive.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #55 on:** October 25, 2011, 01:36:36 PM »

I think a lot of people here would agree with a lot of the things on Caminus' list.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #56 on:** October 25, 2011, 01:44:20 PM »

Another thing - I've had sedevacantist leanings from the beginning of my turn towards Tradition. I was very disappointed by SSPX apologetics against sedevantism, but I thought they were relatively tolerant of sedevacantists. That was a mistaken belief. If I started speaking more openly about what I really think because I was kicked out of SSPX chapels, that's not some "drastic" change with an ulterior motive. I'm simply saying what I was thinking privately (but not always privately - I would speak about such things before) - and when I saw my private thoughts confirmed again and again in the behavior of the priests and in the behavior of the SSPX leadership - I decided it was time to start expressing those thoughts.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #57 on:** October 25, 2011, 02:20:19 PM »

http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Why-has-Caminus-not-been-banned-or-even-admonished

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #58 on:** October 25, 2011, 03:22:51 PM »

Tele, what does that thread about Caminus have to do with this thread?

Some of the things Tele has said about the Society I'm not sure qualify as slander, but definitely calumny. Saying the SSPX is "probably full of masons" is calumny and absolute nonsense.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #59 on:** October 25, 2011, 03:40:40 PM »

I hope whatever SS is saying is actually a quote and not a misrepresentation of what I said. I have a feeling it is another careless quotation and misrepresentation.