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Traditional Catholic Faith => General Discussion => Topic started by: Jehanne on October 25, 2014, 05:47:13 AM

Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: Jehanne on October 25, 2014, 05:47:13 AM
http://www.thebrittanyfund.org/

The present Catechism (in spite of its other deficiencies) defines mortal sin:

Quote
1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."

1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother." The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God's law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: Jehanne on November 02, 2014, 11:41:09 AM
Brittany has decided to postpone her irrevocable entry into eternal Hell:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/30/brittany-maynard-terminally-ill-cancer-patient-ret/

Let us all continue to pray that she will put the everlasting concerns of her eternal, immortal soul before that of any infinitesimal earthly suffering.  And, let us also pray for the shoddy, modernist seminarian who wrote Brittany a public letter:

http://angelqueen.org/2014/10/24/seminarian-phillip-terminal-brain-cancer-response-to-brittany-maynard/

without even mentioning the fate of her eternal soul.
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: Marlelar on November 02, 2014, 04:23:02 PM
Oh that is so sad.  He really has no clue does he.  And he thinks he will be a true priest?

Marsha
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: JezusDeKoning on November 02, 2014, 04:36:37 PM
I do not feel qualified to comment on the state of her eternal fate, nor of anyone's, but I do commend her on postponing her end date because it means she is pursuing other options - maybe she will forgo the assisted suicide altogether.
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: Jehanne on November 02, 2014, 05:18:21 PM
If her deliberate plan to kill herself does not constitute mortal sin, pray tell, what would be a mortal sin?
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: JezusDeKoning on November 02, 2014, 05:56:30 PM
No, it does constitute mortal sin. I'm just saying good for her for the ever slight change of heart.

She is not as adamant in pursuing assisted suicide as before and I'm still hopeful, as nothing is impossible with God, that she will not go through with it.
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: Traditional Guy 20 on November 02, 2014, 05:57:20 PM
Not surprising about the seminarian, since after Vatican II seminaries have become hotspots of liberal nonsense and also "pink palaces" where homosexual perverts rule the roost.
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: JezusDeKoning on November 02, 2014, 06:06:03 PM
I agree. His illness is something no person should ever endure, but Brittany Maynard's cause is nothing heroic.
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: MrsZ on November 02, 2014, 07:19:32 PM
Brittany Maynard has ended her life.  

Dear God, have mercy upon her and on all of us ... this is so terrible, not only for her but for our country.  Will any of us see old age?  Will we be killed as soon as we show signs of weakness or illness?

http://www.people.com/article/brittany-maynard-died-terminal-brain-cancer
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: Cantarella on November 02, 2014, 07:39:22 PM
Well,  too late for this poor lost soul who forgot that God alone is the giver and taker of life.

http://www.people.com/people/mobile/article/0,,20868349,00.html
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: Cantarella on November 02, 2014, 07:46:55 PM
Surely the liberals will make use of this type of news in order to further push their godless agenda of death.  Assisted suicide just like abortion is rebelling against God as Lucifer did at the beginning.  It is the ultimate rebellion which can only be punished by the eternal absence of the Beatific Vision. How disposable human life has become is nothing less than horrifying. We have descended lower than the beasts. Satan must be delighted with our behavior.
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: Jehanne on November 02, 2014, 10:54:05 PM
She has, at least to a moral certitude, consigned herself to eternal Hell.  Saint Thomas clearly speaks the mind of the true Church on suicide:

Quote
It is altogether unlawful to kill oneself, for three reasons. First, because everything naturally loves itself, the result being that everything naturally keeps itself in being, and resists corruptions so far as it can. Wherefore suicide is contrary to the inclination of nature, and to charity whereby every man should love himself. Hence suicide is always a mortal sin, as being contrary to the natural law and to charity. Secondly, because every part, as such, belongs to the whole. Now every man is part of the community, and so, as such, he belongs to the community. Hence by killing himself he injures the community, as the Philosopher declares (Ethic. v, 11). Thirdly, because life is God's gift to man, and is subject to His power, Who kills and makes to live. Hence whoever takes his own life, sins against God, even as he who kills another's slave, sins against that slave's master, and as he who usurps to himself judgment of a matter not entrusted to him. For it belongs to God alone to pronounce sentence of death and life, according to Deuteronomy 32:39, "I will kill and I will make to live." (ST, II II, Q.64)


Quote
Man is made master of himself through his free-will: wherefore he can lawfully dispose of himself as to those matters which pertain to this life which is ruled by man's free-will. But the passage from this life to another and happier one is subject not to man's free-will but to the power of God. Hence it is not lawful for man to take his own life that he may pass to a happier life, nor that he may escape any unhappiness whatsoever of the present life, because the ultimate and most fearsome evil of this life is death, as the Philosopher states (Ethic. iii, 6). Therefore to bring death upon oneself in order to escape the other afflictions of this life, is to adopt a greater evil in order to avoid a lesser. On like manner it is unlawful to take one's own life on account of one's having committed a sin, both because by so doing one does oneself a very great injury, by depriving oneself of the time needful for repentance, and because it is not lawful to slay an evildoer except by the sentence of the public authority. Again it is unlawful for a woman to kill herself lest she be violated, because she ought not to commit on herself the very great sin of suicide, to avoid the lesser sir; of another. For she commits no sin in being violated by force, provided she does not consent, since "without consent of the mind there is no stain on the body," as the Blessed Lucy declared. Now it is evident that fornication and adultery are less grievous sins than taking a man's, especially one's own, life: since the latter is most grievous, because one injures oneself, to whom one owes the greatest love. Moreover it is most dangerous since no time is left wherein to expiate it by repentance. Again it is not lawful for anyone to take his own life for fear he should consent to sin, because "evil must not be done that good may come" (Romans 3:8) or that evil may be avoided especially if the evil be of small account and an uncertain event, for it is uncertain whether one will at some future time consent to a sin, since God is able to deliver man from sin under any temptation whatever. (ST, II II, Q.64, A.3)
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: Cantarella on November 02, 2014, 11:35:21 PM
It used to be "a matter of fact", understood by all Catholics everywhere that those who commit Suicide, damn themselves and go to Hell. There used to be a great shame upon this deplorable fact and those who did it, could not even receive Christian burial.

Nowadays, when we face the heresy of Modernism with its typical disordered sentimentality, there are many who insist that this woman who in all evidence dies in mortal sin can be saved (nobody knows what happens between God and the soul at last minute, they say). As everyone knows, currently all Catholic doctrines are but a shadow of what they used to be and in the insane upside world we live in, suicide has even been idealized.  

From the New Catechism:
Quote

We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.


And compare this with the traditional teaching:

Quote

Key Points about Suicide
 
•Suicide is murder
The man who takes his own life, or helps another to do so, violates the Fifth Commandment, Thou shall not kill, and commits a crime before God - a mortal sin.

•Suicide is an act of despair
 The Catholic may not despair but relies on God’s mercy and help, which is often nearest when the need is greatest. Despair that ends in suicide is a sin against the providence of God (St. Thomas, Summa Theologica II,II, q. 64, a. 5).

•Suicide is a revolt against the will of God
 God is the author of life and only He can determine when a man should die (Deut 32:39). Self-destruction is a presumptuous encroachment upon the divine rights and shows contempt for God, by flinging back at Him His greatest gift to man, which is life (St. Augustine, City of God, 1, I, chap 20, P.L. vol. 41, col. 35).

Suicide entails Hell
 According to Catholic Morals, one who commits suicide goes to Hell. That is why the Church for many centuries denied Catholic burial, Masses and religious rites to those who committed suicide (Code of Canon Law, 1917, cans. 1240, 1241, 2339).

•Suicide is an act of cowardice
 Instead of facing the sufferings God gives and gaining the merits from them, the one who commits suicide fearfully deserts the battlefield. St Paul tells us to live and die for the Lord, and never for ourselves (Rom 14:7-8).

•Suicide defrauds society, of which man is a member
 The person who commits suicide brings sorrow and shame to his family. Many times a suicide can also cause an unjust moral blame to be placed on another member of the family. The person who commits suicide harms those members of society to which he owes a debt, and also gives scandal to all of society. It is worse to take one’s own life than that of another, because the man who commits suicide cowardly escapes the consequences of his act for society.

•Whoever assists a suicide is an accomplice of this crime
 The person who helps another commit suicide also commits a mortal sin. St. Augustine writes that "it is never licit to kill another: even if he should wish it, indeed even if he request it or, hanging between life and death, he begs for help in freeing the soul struggling against the bonds of the body and longing to be released; nor is it licit even when a sick person is no longer able to live" (Ep. 204, 5: CSEL 57, 320).

From
http://www.traditioninaction.org/banners/A_002_DefeatI_1000.htm
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: StCeciliasGirl on November 02, 2014, 11:42:28 PM
God is Merciful. And Just. We had the readings today and a sermon about the Saints who suffered, and about possible living saints, and I see people in nursing homes who are truly suffering and are lonely (not trying to sound like Frank) yet live on for that ONE MOMENT they can pass on a word of advice, or a hope, to a younger person, and THEY are a testimony and witness to God's Mercy and Justice. THEY suffer for Our Lord; they suffer grievously. And many others suffer silently and give us living witness to carry on through our own tribulations...

and then I see this dead demonic and her dead family on All Saints' Octave/All Souls' Day and am horrified that people are calling THAT "courageous". Or better yet, catholics asking everyone to pray for her "soul". (Isn't it a SIN to pray Good come from evil?)

I'm not praying for that, anymore than I'd ask God to bless a "marriage" of Sodomites. There's real stuff to pray for; we're not instructed to deal with those who have nothing to do with us. What's Our Lord's saying? "Let the dead bury the dead" or something? (Laptop's about to "update" so I can't look it up...)  Let the dead bury this suicide; let the dead world rejoice over her "courage". It sickens me, though.
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: Pelly on November 03, 2014, 03:08:48 AM
Is there a correlation between invalid "sacraments" and assisted suicide?
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: Traditional Guy 20 on November 03, 2014, 03:43:42 AM
We are definitely in a culture that glorifies death these days (while at the same time fears death when it comes to people who actually deserve it i.e. the death penalty). This reminds me when this first started to get popular back in 2002 with Admiral Nimitz's suicide, which gained national news since the admiral was a World War II "war hero." As usual even then the clergy tried to defend such an act with his sister as a Catholic nun saying that God is merciful and she knows her brother was saved.

Ever since the 1960's the world has pleaded for a world free of Christianity's moral code. Well they are getting what they wanted.
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: Petertherock on November 03, 2014, 09:50:58 AM
This is someone to admire...she's dying of a brain tumor and living her life to the fullest until the very end...

http://www.aol.com/article/2014/11/02/player-with-brain-tumor-fulfills-basketball-dream/20987472/?icid=maing-grid7%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl39%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D556402

Player with brain tumor fulfills basketball dream

CINCINNATI (AP) - In between making two layups that brought a packed arena to its feet, Lauren Hill spent much of this inspiring game sitting on the bench wearing sunglasses and headphones.

The bright gym and roar of the crowd are still special to Hill, an inoperable brain tumor, though, has made her extremely sensitive to sensations her teammates and opponents take for granted.

The freshman forward for Division III Mount St. Joseph's made an uncontested left-handed layup for the opening basket of Sunday's 66-55 victory over Hiram College. Hill has just months to live because of the tumor, which affects her coordination, forcing the right-hander to shoot with her left hand.

She made the last shot of the game, too, returning with 26.5 seconds remaining to sink a layup right-handed for the game's final basket.
"Today has been the best day I've ever had," Hill said after receiving another award upon the game's end.

Her shots brought standing ovations from a sellout crowd at Xavier University's 10,000-seat arena, among many emotional moments for Hill as she received love and support upon walking out for warmups. Her audience included former Tennessee women's coach Pat Summitt and several WNBA players including Elena Della Donne, Tamika Catchings and Skylar Diggins.
Moved by the reactions - especially after receiving the U.S. Basketball Writers Association's Pat Summitt most courageous award normally awarded at the Final Four - Hill said of the disease, "we're gonna fight this."

Hill's determination to play while raising awareness about pediatric cancer has resulted in a fan base that goes far beyond the school located on the outskirts of Cincinnati.

The 19-year-old Lawrenceburg, Indiana, native's fight has led to an outpouring of nationwide support. Teams and players have signed and sent No. 22 jerseys to Hill, including 15 from high schools that draped the backs of the Lions' bench.

Hill started an online layup challenge that involves spinning around five times and shooting a layup with the non-dominant hand. Similar to this summer's ALS Ice Bucket Challenge that became a social media phenomenon, the fundraising campaign (#Layup4Lauren) has drawn Cincinnati Bengals quarterback Andy Dalton and other athletes.
The Bengals showed a video of her layup during a timeout. Defensive tackle Devon Still -whose daughter, Leah, 4, is also being treated for cancer - wore Hill's name on his eye black; Whitworth had the No. 22 on his gloves.

A series of videos were shown with teams meeting the challenge - with missed layups - and challenging others.

Fundraising by The Cure Starts Now Foundation totaled more than $40,000. The NCAA allowed the game to be moved up two weeks because of the urgency of Hill's condition.

Lauren Hildebrand and daughter Allie, a Lawrenceburg High School sophomore, were among 3,000 from the town who got tickets, including the school's pep band. Allie Hildebrand was Hill's "little sister" during the player's senior year and said handling her friend's illness was difficult.
"You can't cry in front of her," Hildebrand said. "You don't want to get upset in front of her. That makes her upset."

Tears were conspicuously absent on an upbeat day that celebrated Hill's perseverance.

Smiling upon entering the floor for warmups, Hill's mood lifted the spirits of several children enduring various forms of cancer. That included Cynthia Towne, 11, who undergoes periodic chemotherapy for a less-aggressive form of cancer first diagnosed at 4.

The little girl from Cincinnati grinned widely as she gave Hill a specially-made headband sporting the word "Believe" with a yellow ribbon in the middle. Encouraged by recent diagnoses for her daughter, Katie Towne said Sunday was nonetheless bittersweet.

"I'm happy for the joy of her getting her wish coming true, not only for raising awareness but also for being able to play in this game," Towne said. "But there's also sadness knowing that how much awareness she brings right now, she won't get to reap the benefits personally.
"That's what's amazing; she did this, knowing that," Towne said.
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: RomanCatholic1953 on November 03, 2014, 11:17:52 AM
It is now official, according to Yahoo news, Brittany Maynard, age 29
has committed suicide.
Where ever she is now at, she now wished that she did not make
that decision. She will now be directly responsible for others
following her example. Her suicide is to promote legal and
voluntary suicide.
This is how evil movements get started to get the evil legalized.
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: stbrighidswell on November 03, 2014, 11:48:26 AM
Only speculation on my part but I only read yesterday one of the links in this thread and she had stated that at that time (past her set deadline) she was happy to be alive so far.  What changed in a matter of 2 days??
Wouldn't surprise me if she died naturally but those who surrounded her said she committed suicide as promised and drum roll the 'fawning eulogies' , keeps the evil agenda on track.  
However she will still face judgement on her part in suicide promotion.
God be merciful to her.
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: Nadir on November 03, 2014, 03:31:07 PM
Quote from: JezusDeKoning
His illness is something no person should ever endure...


Because of our sin we all deserve to suffer. Suffering has a redemptive aspect and God knows the needs and abilities of each one of us. It is the means of our salvation (or in the case of an innocent) for the redemption of other souls.

1 Cor [24]
Quote
Paul ...Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church:
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: Immaculata001 on November 03, 2014, 04:26:57 PM
At the heart of the "right to die" movement is the idea that we should never experience suffering. In V2 speak, it's beneath "the dignity of man." Life is full of suffering and troubles and that's the truth of Catholic teaching.

I'm very saddened that she actually went through with this -- I felt that maybe it was divine intervention that she was feeling that "it was the right time," earlier in the week.  I was hoping that others' prayers and her own deliberation would cause her to make another choice.
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: Cantarella on November 03, 2014, 04:43:57 PM
The right to die organization which supported Brittany Maynard’s decision to kill herself has ties to abortion giant Planned Parenthood.

http://www.lifenews.com/2014/11/03/planned-parenthood-activists-sit-on-board-of-group-that-urged-brittany-maynard-to-kill-herself/
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: Capt McQuigg on November 03, 2014, 04:58:56 PM
This woman had a choice and this woman made her choice.

She had a rancid soul and the world is a better place without her.  

Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: RomanCatholic1953 on November 03, 2014, 05:18:29 PM
Where ever Brittany Maynard is now at. I bet she now wished she
was the best Catholic Christian that ever walked the earth.
However, it is now to late FOREVER.
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: MyrnaM on November 03, 2014, 07:08:25 PM
Who knows maybe she did change her mind and her "loved ones" gave her the meds.  

We can't judge anyone's soul, and that is Catholic teaching. No matter how grave it may look.  
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: Jehanne on November 03, 2014, 07:56:58 PM
If she is, in fact, in eternal Hell at this very instant, then she will be there forever and ever and ever, which means that none of this "The Triune God granted her forgiveness at the last moment"-speculation will matter in the slightest.  Once again, Saint Thomas has much to teach us:

Quote
Man is made master of himself through his free-will: wherefore he can lawfully dispose of himself as to those matters which pertain to this life which is ruled by man’s free-will. But the passage from this life to another and happier one is subject not to man’s free-will but to the power of God. Hence it is not lawful for man to take his own life that he may pass to a happier life, nor that he may escape any unhappiness whatsoever of the present life, because the ultimate and most fearsome evil of this life is death, as the Philosopher states (Ethic. iii, 6). Therefore to bring death upon oneself in order to escape the other afflictions of this life, is to adopt a greater evil in order to avoid a lesser. In like manner it is unlawful to take one’s own life on account of one’s having committed a sin, both because by so doing one does oneself a very great injury, by depriving oneself of the time needful for repentance, and because it is not lawful to slay an evildoer except by the sentence of the public authority. Again it is unlawful for a woman to kill herself  lest she be violated, because she ought not to commit on herself the very great sin of suicide, to avoid the lesser sir; of another. For she commits no sin in being violated by force, provided she does not consent, since “without consent of the mind there is no stain on the body,” as the Blessed Lucy declared. Now it is evident that fornication and adultery are less grievous sins than taking a man’s, especially one’s own, life: since the latter is most grievous, because one injures oneself, to whom one owes the greatest love. Moreover it is most dangerous since no time is left wherein to expiate it by repentance.  Again it is not lawful for anyone to take his own life for fear he should consent to sin, because “evil must not be done that good may come” (Rom. 3:8) or that evil may be avoided especially if the evil be of small account and an uncertain event, for it is uncertain whether one will at some future time consent to a sin, since God is able to deliver man from sin under any temptation whatever. (ST IIa IIae, q.64, a. 5, ad 3)


So, this idea for "final repentance" for those who commit suicide seems to be yet another theological novelty.  And, yet, if the One and Triune God excludes infants who die without sacramental Baptism from His Presence, the Beatific Vision, it seems at least probable that He will also exclude those, such as Brittany, who plan their own deaths weeks in advance.

So, yes, to a near-absolute certitude, she's in eternal Hell at this very moment and will be there come tomorrow morning, and after that, forever and ever and ever.  This message is one which we all owe to the living, for the salvation of their eternal souls.
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: Nadir on November 04, 2014, 06:49:42 AM
Myrna could possibly be right. She may have changed her mind and her "minders" decided to do it in case the word got it. It is in the realm of possiblity though I'm not saying that happened. It just might have happened.

By the way, Jehanne, near-absolute certitude is an absolute contradiction, a double oxymoron.

Near-absolute means not absolute and if it is, as you say, near-absolute (i.e. not absolute) then there is no certitude at all. We must pray for her soul. Even if she is in Hell, our prayers are not wasted but will be used in another cause.
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: Jehanne on November 04, 2014, 07:17:24 AM
I think that when she died that she went straight to eternal Hell.  I am either "right" or "wrong" in this assessment.  As for praying for her, I did say one Hail Mary on her behalf, but I do not think that I will pray for her again.
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: RomanCatholic1953 on November 04, 2014, 08:39:39 AM
She is now the poster child of the right to die movement. She bears
responsibly for every soul that follows her example.
Her sin was serious.  She lived how she died, and died as she lived.
Meaning she took her beliefs unchanged at her departure where
ever she went.  
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: StCeciliasGirl on November 04, 2014, 02:06:45 PM
Quote from: Nadir
By the way, Jehanne, near-absolute certitude is an absolute contradiction, a double oxymoron.

Near-absolute means not absolute and if it is, as you say, near-absolute (i.e. not absolute) then there is no certitude at all. We must pray for her soul. Even if she is in Hell, our prayers are not wasted but will be used in another cause.


Certitude can be modified by "near-absolute"; google the term and you'll see it's rather common in many circles (especially philosophical and theological, but business as well) to discuss the degree of certitude one has.

And in this case, it's about the most charitable one can get without falling into fantasy, because suicides are condemned, and this one particularly so due to its public defiance of all things Holy, and yet Jehanne left room for God to operate. That's the "near-certainty".

I personally wouldn't have modified it at all (since I think it's de fide), but since it's been brought up, can anyone cite anything where Catholics are to pray for dead heathens? Everytime I've sinfully wasted my time trying to find something without "Faustina" in it, I just hear a resounding, "Follow Me and let the dead bury their dead."
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: 2Vermont on November 04, 2014, 03:40:02 PM
So here is the full section on Suicide in the New Catechism:

Suicide

2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of.

2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.


Would you say that this description leads one to believe that it is a mortal sin still?
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: Capt McQuigg on November 04, 2014, 04:02:01 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont
So here is the full section on Suicide in the New Catechism:

2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.



The public nature of this rancid soul's departure makes it a clear mortal sin.  

Barring some extraordinary intervention from Heaven, we can all shudder at the destination of this particular soul.  Tragically, her public example will lead at least some others to follow suit.  
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: 2Vermont on November 04, 2014, 04:10:58 PM
Quote from: Capt McQuigg
Quote from: 2Vermont
So here is the full section on Suicide in the New Catechism:

2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.



The public nature of this rancid soul's departure makes it a clear mortal sin.  

Barring some extraordinary intervention from Heaven, we can all shudder at the destination of this particular soul.  Tragically, her public example will lead at least some others to follow suit.  


I was referring to whether the new catechism's teaching makes it clear that suicide is a mortal sin (not for this particular soul).  In my mind, the wording is not clear at all.
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: snowball on November 04, 2014, 04:37:40 PM
Does this mean that if a man is dying miserably from a war wound
in the field and is shreiking for you to mercy kill him (no chance
of survival, only pain), that you commit murder and he commits
suicide for telling you to kill him ?
I wonder if Jesus wouldn't look too heavily upon all the theological
talking points and perhaps won't be so "automatic" to condemn
her to eternal hellfire.. you know, it wouldn't surprise me if she
makes Purgatory, with some extra suffering.
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: 2Vermont on November 04, 2014, 06:08:56 PM
Quote from: snowball
Does this mean that if a man is dying miserably from a war wound
in the field and is shreiking for you to mercy kill him (no chance
of survival, only pain), that you commit murder and he commits
suicide for telling you to kill him ?
I wonder if Jesus wouldn't look too heavily upon all the theological
talking points and perhaps won't be so "automatic" to condemn
her to eternal hellfire.. you know, it wouldn't surprise me if she
makes Purgatory, with some extra suffering.


Not a snowball's chance in hell.   :roll-laugh2:

Sorry couldn't resist.  
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: StCeciliasGirl on November 04, 2014, 08:58:42 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont
So here is the full section on Suicide in the New Catechism:

Suicide

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.


Would you say that this description leads one to believe that it is a mortal sin still?


2VT, love your posts but should that be on a Catholic forum?

So from the deposit of Faith (several Councils and Holy Scripture), we can't eat or pray with Jews, heretics, apostates, and others of the "condemned" variety who openly reject God; and the Council of Laodicea said we can't go to non-Catholic burial places to pray with or for the non-Catholics ...but we can pray for them if they condemn themselves eternally by committing suicide?

 :confused1:

Would one pray that "the master of my fate and captain of my soul" suicide might jump up a Dante level and be in a better part of Hell? Level up, like in a video game?

Snowball, your scenario sort of actually happened in Holy Writ. King Saul fell on his sword after the guy with him refused to run him through; and also when Job suffered grievously for far longer with far less support, but fought the good fight and was eventually made whole and then some. God smiled upon Job, but not Saul. Suicide is condemned. And so is murder. Always has been; always will be. The Faithful don't write the rules; we bow our heads and pray for the strength to abide by them, and help prop each other up, and pray to our Advocate along with the Saints if we're in communion of Saints (ie, the Church).

And 2V took my joke  :laugh1:
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: Disputaciones on November 04, 2014, 10:04:19 PM
Does brain cancer make you gain weight?

She looks slim in the pictures but heavier in the video.
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: Disputaciones on November 05, 2014, 12:44:20 AM
Why the downthumb? It was an honest question, I did not intend to make fun or anything like that.
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: stbrighidswell on November 05, 2014, 01:24:01 AM
One of our pp told a sermon once about a story he had heard about a woman sitting in the back of a church and crying.  The parish priest of this church went to her and said 'Don't worry, your husband repented before he hit the water and he was saved'.  Turned out her husband had committed suicide by jumping in the river and that was why she was crying bitterly.  I read this story somewhere myself and I think it was some famous cleric like Cur of Ars but I am not sure.

You just never know
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: Capt McQuigg on November 05, 2014, 06:59:16 AM
Quote from: Disputaciones
Does brain cancer make you gain weight?

She looks slim in the pictures but heavier in the video.


Her younger photos looked professionally touched up, the ones I saw show her in a wedding gown.

When she became ill, it is likely that she turned to the comforts of food.
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: stbrighidswell on November 05, 2014, 04:47:04 PM
She gained weight due to medications.
Title: Brittany Maynard, Countdown to eternal Hell!
Post by: Xystus on November 07, 2014, 04:11:02 AM
This is obviously a united effort of the news media moguls to promote assisted suicide across the nation.

There are already 5 states that allow it, and there already have been over 700 people who have already done what Maynard did - so why the sudden focus on this woman?  

Obviously, they want to get the ball rolling for as many states as possible to get the legislation through. They are just pretty much prepping the nation for what they have already determined to get established everywhere.

I think some people overlook something in regard to mortal sin. Yes, suicide is a mortal sin, meaning that it is grave matter. But someone doesn't go to hell for merely committing suicide....someone goes to hell for being guilty of committing it. Guilt is not determined merely on the act of grave matter, but also on full knowledge and consent. Sometimes people have an erroneous conscience.

This lady didn't look like she was in a good state to begin with. I got the impression she treated life as if she were just an animal seeking pleasures and experiences. To be in such a state of mind is actually the worst thing, and her mercy killing is merely a cherry on top....indicative of the way she already lived.