What a load of manure.You are entitled to your opinion, but not to your own facts.
You are entitled to your opinion, but not to your own facts.Cera, I sincerely think you should take the time to view Dennis Wise's magnum opus on Hitler, The Greatest Story Ever Told.
Cera, I sincerely think you should take the time to view Dennis Wise's magnum opus on Hitler, The Greatest Story NEVER Told.https://thegreateststorynevertold.tv/10-questions-answered-by-dennis-wise/
Wise is a trad Catholic and knows a ton about these issues.
Cera, I sincerely think you should take the time to view Dennis Wise's magnum opus on Hitler, The Greatest Story Ever Told.If that's the case, why did the Pope condemn the 3rd Reich in Mit Brennende Sorge?
Wise is a trad Catholic and knows a ton about these issues.
Speer was bought and paid for at Nuremberg to save his skin.
Bormann was indeed anti-Christian. His fireside chats that are allegedly words of Hitlers that many have grave doubts about their authenticity, are dubious at best.
The fact is, the Church lost it's only temporal protector on earth when the Axis lost. Shortly there after, enter VII......
8. Whoever exalts race, or the people, or the State, or a particular form of State, or the depositories of power, or any other fundamental value of the human community — however necessary and honorable be their function in worldly things — whoever raises these notions above thheir standard value and divinizes them to an idolatrous level, distorts and perverts an order of the world planned and created by God; he is far from the true faith in God and from the concept of life which that faith upholds.dude shut up
9. Beware, Venerable Brethren, of that growing abuse, in speech as in writing, of the name of God as though it were a meaningless label, to be affixed to any creation, more or less arbitrary, of human speculation. Use your influence on the Faithful, that they refuse to yield to this aberration. Our God is the Personal God, supernatural, omnipotent, infinitely perfect, one in the Trinity of Persons, tri-personal in the unity of divine essence, the Creator of all existence. Lord, King and ultimate Consummator of the history of the world, who will not, and cannot, tolerate a rival God by His side.
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius11/p11brenn.htm
If that's the case, why did the Pope condemn the 3rd Reich in Mit Brennende Sorge?Um, that just isn't true. MBS is not a condemnation of NS but rather the extremes of UNRESTRAINED nationalism. It was written by Eugenio Pacelli for Pius XI, and while justly concerned for what appeared as the Cult of the State in Germany (as well as Italy by the way) The fact is that the practical aspects of NS were not only NOT condemned, but even encouraged in his later actions as POPE PIUS XII. Hitler understood the German nation as in fact a corporate family that had a right and a duty to protect itself and grow, seeking it's rightful aims Pius the 12th wanted to prevent an over-arching worship of the state as a substitute God and I think he was correct to express these concerns. He NEVER meant to condemn either the party or the German state, rather to check extremism and encourage political moderation.
Um, that just isn't true. MBS is not a condemnation of NS but rather the extremes of UNRESTRAINED nationalism. It was written by Eugenio Pacelli for Pius XI, and while justly concerned for what appeared as the Cult of the State in Germany (as well as Italy by the way) The fact is that the practical aspects of NS were not only NOT condemned, but even encouraged in his later actions as POPE PIUS XII. Hitler understood the German nation as in fact a corporate family that had a right and a duty to protect itself and grow, seeking it's rightful aims Pius the 12th wanted to prevent an over-arching worship of the state as a substitute God and I think he was correct to express these concerns. He NEVER meant to condemn either the party or the German state, rather to check extremism and encourage political moderation.:applause: :applause: :applause:
In a word, the Third Reich was NOT condemned in MBS, only the notion of the state replacing God. Your statement is just WRONG
Um, that just isn't true. MBS is not a condemnation of NS but rather the extremes of UNRESTRAINED nationalism. It was written by Eugenio Pacelli for Pius XI, and while justly concerned for what appeared as the Cult of the State in Germany (as well as Italy by the way) The fact is that the practical aspects of NS were not only NOT condemned, but even encouraged in his later actions as POPE PIUS XII. Hitler understood the German nation as in fact a corporate family that had a right and a duty to protect itself and grow, seeking it's rightful aims Pius the 12th wanted to prevent an over-arching worship of the state as a substitute God and I think he was correct to express these concerns. He NEVER meant to condemn either the party or the German state, rather to check extremism and encourage political moderation.Implying that a German text read out only in Germany was not directed at Germany is a blatant and poor attempt at revisionism
In a word, the Third Reich was NOT condemned in MBS, only the notion of the state replacing God. Your statement is just WRONG
Implying that a German text read out only in Germany was not directed at Germany is a blatant and poor attempt at revisionisimImplying that VII was not for the consumption of the universal Church is....oh never mind....
Implying that VII was not for the consumption of the universal Church is....oh never mind....Redirect? You're the one bringing up a completely unrelated Council 20 years later by an entirely different Pope.
This is a weak redirect.
Redirect? You're the one bringing up a completely unrelated Council 20 years later by an entirely different Pope.The analogy is lost on you.
The analogy is lost on you.They had a State Church with its own altered version of the Bible, seems like policy to me.
The National Socialist policies are not mentioned ONCE in Mit. But you know what is mentioned?
"No one would think of preventing young Germans establishing a true ethnical community in a noble love of freedom and loyalty to their country. What We object to is the voluntary and systematic antagonism raised between national education and religious duty. That is why we tell the young: Sing your hymns to freedom, but do not forget the freedom of the children of God".
The fact that there were those, such as Bormann, who wanted to elevate German identity above ALL else was the problem. That WAS NOT NSDAP policy. The fact that the government was attempting to stop the corrupt clergy within the Reich from teaching the German youth "the virtues" of the Marxist ideal was the issue.
The Church itself was infiltrated at this point of history. Of course the Catholic schools would have been infiltrated as well. Pius XI was shielded from the reality of what was going on on the ground, just like the Cristeros fiasco.
8. Whoever exalts race, or the people, or the State, or a particular form of State, or the depositories of power, or any other fundamental value of the human community — however necessary and honorable be their function in worldly things — whoever raises these notions above thheir standard value and divinizes them to an idolatrous level, distorts and perverts an order of the world planned and created by God; he is far from the true faith in God and from the concept of life which that faith upholds.:applause:
9. Beware, Venerable Brethren, of that growing abuse, in speech as in writing, of the name of God as though it were a meaningless label, to be affixed to any creation, more or less arbitrary, of human speculation. Use your influence on the Faithful, that they refuse to yield to this aberration. Our God is the Personal God, supernatural, omnipotent, infinitely perfect, one in the Trinity of Persons, tri-personal in the unity of divine essence, the Creator of all existence. Lord, King and ultimate Consummator of the history of the world, who will not, and cannot, tolerate a rival God by His side.
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius11/p11brenn.htm
They had a State Church with its own altered version of the Bible, seems like policy to me.Demonstrate.
Um, that just isn't true. MBS is not a condemnation of NS but rather the extremes of UNRESTRAINED nationalism. It was written by Eugenio Pacelli for Pius XI, and while justly concerned for what appeared as the Cult of the State in Germany (as well as Italy by the way) The fact is that the practical aspects of NS were not only NOT condemned, but even encouraged in his later actions as POPE PIUS XII. Hitler understood the German nation as in fact a corporate family that had a right and a duty to protect itself and grow, seeking it's rightful aims Pius the 12th wanted to prevent an over-arching worship of the state as a substitute God and I think he was correct to express these concerns. He NEVER meant to condemn either the party or the German state, rather to check extremism and encourage political moderation.What you are saying is that the nαzι government was condemned by two pre-Vatican II Popes.
In a word, the Third Reich was NOT condemned in MBS, only the notion of the state replacing God. Your statement is just WRONG
Can we just admit that there WEREN'T good sides in WW2?This is the only Catholic perspective of world war two.
Both the Axis and the Allies were garbage. What other side used nuclear weapons on two cities and killed a six-digit sum of people?
Demonstrate.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity
Can we just admit that there WEREN'T good sides in WW2?Nagasaki ABomb scored direct hit on Urakami Jesuit Cathedral... See D Dionisi-- Atomic Bomb Secrets.. :cowboy:
Both the Axis and the Allies were garbage. What other side used nuclear weapons on two cities and killed a six-digit sum of people?
Is there anything the nαzιs did to Jєωs that the Church hasn't done to Jєωs?
Of course most people will say that the Church has never attempted to genocide the Jєωs, but then neither did the nαzιs. Incidentally there's an interesting discussion about D. Bonhoeffer and Emmi Bonhoeffer over on Codoh (https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=10587).
I'm scratching my head trying to think of anything the nαzιs did to Jєωs that the Church hasn't done to them from time to time over the last 2000 years.
Is there anything the nαzιs did to Jєωs that the Church hasn't done to Jєωs?Rumor that Hitler was a Rothschild have been around for years. See A Hitler-- Founder of Israel by Henneke Kardel- New Century Press. Hitler looks mjuch more Asiatic than German. See also Kenneth Goff-- Hiter: Hoax Of 20th Century.
Of course most people will say that the Church has never attempted to genocide the Jєωs, but then neither did the nαzιs. Incidentally there's an interesting discussion about D. Bonhoeffer and Emmi Bonhoeffer over on Codoh (https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=10587).
I'm scratching my head trying to think of anything the nαzιs did to Jєωs that the Church hasn't done to them from time to time over the last 2000 years.
roscoe, do you have any sources for your claim that Hitler was probably a marrano? I've heard this claim from various people, most notably the guy who runs big-lies.org.
Hell, for all (Hitler's) efforts all he did was entrench communism and secularism in Europe, leaving a shattered continent in his wake. Find another creep to put on a pedestal.Not so fast. Hitler hated Communism and wanted to rid Germany and the rest of Europe of its evil influences and control. That he failed can, at least in large part, be attributed to the fact that he could not get the Allies, particularly Churchill FDR, to go along with him. These,rather, armed, empowered and abetted Stalin and the Soviet Union. They made it impossible that the true enemies of mankind at the time might be destroyed.
AC:Not so fast. Hitler hated Communism and wanted to rid Germany and the rest of Europe of its evil influences and control. That he failed can, at least in large part, be attributed to the fact that he could not get the Allies, particularly Churchill FDR, to go along with him. These,rather, armed, empowered and abetted Stalin and the Soviet Union. They made it impossible that the true enemies of mankind at the time might be destroyed.Maybe this would be more credible if Hitler had not invaded Poland in union with the Soviet Union.
What you are saying is that the nαzι government was condemned by two pre-Vatican II Popes.No, not at all, just warned of the excess. The church does not condemn watching the NFL, but does not allow you to sleep thru mass to watch Football. keep things in perspective. Any of you have any relatives that were their? I do. I like football, watch the Chiefs every sunday, do NOT duck my religious obligations.
poche: Maybe this would be more credible if Hitler had not invaded Poland in union with the Soviet Union.
No, not at all, just warned of the excess. The church does not condemn watching the NFL, but does not allow you to sleep thru mass to watch Football. keep things in perspective. Any of you have any relatives that were their? I do. I like football, watch the Chiefs every sunday, do NOT duck my religious obligations.Those were pretty strong words for 'excess.'
Clarkaim, when I got this reply from poche a few posts back, I realized that he is not person to be taken seriously:There have been no explanations whatsoever for "Positive Christianity" and how that wasn't blasphemous and heretical in the extreme.
You're certainly free to engage him, if you like. But I suggest that it is an utter waste of time to do so.
Clarkaim, when I got this reply from poche a few posts back, I realized that he is not person to be taken seriously:We would like to say that. GOD does not. We HAVE to love everybody, we just don't have to like them. Or anyone else for that matter.
You're certainly free to engage him, if you like. But I suggest that it is an utter waste of time to do so.
We would like to say that. GOD does not. We HAVE to love everybody, we just don't have to like them. Or anyone else for that matter.I was quoting Pope Pius XI. He was a pope who had nothing to do with Vatican II. It was said that Eugene Pacelli before he was elected to the papacy had a hand in its writing and promulgation. I think we should respect what these two pre-Vatican II popes had to say about Hitler and his philosophy.
MISANTHROPES OF THE WORLD UNITE!! You have njothing to lose but your annoyances. 1
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