Read an Interview with Matthew, the owner of CathInfo

Author Topic: Bonhoeffer: Hitler was anti-Catholic  (Read 1493 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online forlorn

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 750
  • Reputation: +308/-421
  • Gender: Male
Re: Bonhoeffer: Hitler was anti-Catholic
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2019, 02:55:25 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Implying that VII was not for the consumption of the universal Church is....oh never mind....
    This is a weak redirect.
    Redirect? You're the one bringing up a completely unrelated Council 20 years later by an entirely different Pope. 

    Offline LeDeg

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 246
    • Reputation: +149/-25
    • Gender: Male
    • I am responsible only to God and history.
    Re: Bonhoeffer: Hitler was anti-Catholic
    « Reply #16 on: February 05, 2019, 03:54:49 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Redirect? You're the one bringing up a completely unrelated Council 20 years later by an entirely different Pope.
    The analogy is lost on you.
    The National Socialist policies are not mentioned ONCE in Mit. But you know what is mentioned?

    "No one would think of preventing young Germans establishing a true ethnical community in a noble love of freedom and loyalty to their country. What We object to is the voluntary and systematic antagonism raised between national education and religious duty. That is why we tell the young: Sing your hymns to freedom, but do not forget the freedom of the children of God".


    The fact that there were those, such as Bormann, who wanted to elevate German identity above ALL else was the problem. That WAS NOT NSDAP policy. The fact that the government was attempting to stop the corrupt clergy within the Reich from teaching the German youth "the virtues" of the Marxist ideal was the issue.
    The Church itself was infiltrated at this point of history. Of course the Catholic schools would have been infiltrated as well. Pius XI was shielded from the reality of what was going on on the ground, just like the Cristeros fiasco.
    "The whole secret of the campaigns unleashed against Europe can be explained in two words: Masonry and Communism... we have to extirpate these two evils from our land." -Franco


    Offline hollingsworth

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2251
    • Reputation: +2448/-256
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bonhoeffer: Hitler was anti-Catholic
    « Reply #17 on: February 05, 2019, 04:46:28 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • LeDeg, I've watched the The Greatest Story online.  But I was prevented from downloading it.  Obviously some Google coding mischief going on.  Do you know how we can purchase a DVD of the series?  Because I've had a problem finding a source there as well, but will keep trying.

    Online forlorn

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 750
    • Reputation: +308/-421
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bonhoeffer: Hitler was anti-Catholic
    « Reply #18 on: February 05, 2019, 04:50:22 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The analogy is lost on you.
    The National Socialist policies are not mentioned ONCE in Mit. But you know what is mentioned?

    "No one would think of preventing young Germans establishing a true ethnical community in a noble love of freedom and loyalty to their country. What We object to is the voluntary and systematic antagonism raised between national education and religious duty. That is why we tell the young: Sing your hymns to freedom, but do not forget the freedom of the children of God".


    The fact that there were those, such as Bormann, who wanted to elevate German identity above ALL else was the problem. That WAS NOT NSDAP policy. The fact that the government was attempting to stop the corrupt clergy within the Reich from teaching the German youth "the virtues" of the Marxist ideal was the issue.
    The Church itself was infiltrated at this point of history. Of course the Catholic schools would have been infiltrated as well. Pius XI was shielded from the reality of what was going on on the ground, just like the Cristeros fiasco.
    They had a State Church with its own altered version of the Bible, seems like policy to me. 

    Offline Cera

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1206
    • Reputation: +423/-152
    • Gender: Female
    • Pray for the consecration of Russia to Mary's I H
    Re: Bonhoeffer: Hitler was anti-Catholic
    « Reply #19 on: February 05, 2019, 06:56:28 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • 8. Whoever exalts race, or the people, or the State, or a particular form of State, or the depositories of power, or any other fundamental value of the human community — however necessary and honorable be their function in worldly things — whoever raises these notions above thheir standard value and divinizes them to an idolatrous level, distorts and perverts an order of the world planned and created by God; he is far from the true faith in God and from the concept of life which that faith upholds.
    9. Beware, Venerable Brethren, of that growing abuse, in speech as in writing, of the name of God as though it were a meaningless label, to be affixed to any creation, more or less arbitrary, of human speculation. Use your influence on the Faithful, that they refuse to yield to this aberration. Our God is the Personal God, supernatural, omnipotent, infinitely perfect, one in the Trinity of Persons, tri-personal in the unity of divine essence, the Creator of all existence. Lord, King and ultimate Consummator of the history of the world, who will not, and cannot, tolerate a rival God by His side.


    http://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius11/p11brenn.htm
    :applause:
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary


    Offline LeDeg

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 246
    • Reputation: +149/-25
    • Gender: Male
    • I am responsible only to God and history.
    Re: Bonhoeffer: Hitler was anti-Catholic
    « Reply #20 on: February 05, 2019, 07:08:47 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • They had a State Church with its own altered version of the Bible, seems like policy to me.
    Demonstrate.
    "The whole secret of the campaigns unleashed against Europe can be explained in two words: Masonry and Communism... we have to extirpate these two evils from our land." -Franco

    Offline JezusDeKoning

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2479
    • Reputation: +842/-503
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bonhoeffer: Hitler was anti-Catholic
    « Reply #21 on: February 05, 2019, 07:19:37 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Can we just admit that there WEREN'T good sides in WW2? 

    Both the Axis and the Allies were garbage. What other side used nuclear weapons on two cities and killed a six-digit sum of people? 
    Tío Samuel, ven pa 'aca

    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 14297
    • Reputation: +553/-1506
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bonhoeffer: Hitler was anti-Catholic
    « Reply #22 on: February 05, 2019, 11:58:41 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • Um, that just isn't true.  MBS is not a condemnation of NS but rather the extremes of UNRESTRAINED nationalism.  It was written by Eugenio Pacelli for Pius XI, and while justly concerned for what appeared as the Cult of the State in Germany (as well as Italy by the way)  The fact is that the practical aspects of NS were not only NOT condemned, but even encouraged in his later actions as POPE PIUS XII.  Hitler understood the German nation as in fact a corporate family that had a right and a duty to protect  itself and grow, seeking it's rightful aims  Pius the 12th wanted to prevent an over-arching worship of the state as a substitute God and I think he was correct to express these concerns.  He NEVER meant to condemn either the party or the German state, rather to check extremism and encourage political moderation.  

    In a word, the Third Reich was NOT condemned in MBS, only the notion of the state replacing God.  Your statement is just WRONG
    What you are saying is that the NAZI government was condemned by two pre-Vatican II Popes.  


    Offline AnonymousCatholic

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 479
    • Reputation: +156/-63
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bonhoeffer: Hitler was anti-Catholic
    « Reply #23 on: February 06, 2019, 02:58:29 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • Not sure how this is still a debate. Arguing about the things Hitler said or did in private is meaningless. If Hitler had faith then it would've been well known he spent every Sunday at church. I couldn't care less about if he was a non catholic who considered the church a friend. The enemy of your enemy is not your friend, he is more of a wolf you've invited into the pasture. Hell, for all of his efforts all he did was entrench communism and secularism in Europe, leaving a shattered continent in his wake. Find another creep to put on a pedestal. 

    "The things that we love tell us who we are" - Thomas Aquinas

    Pray for us Blessed Karl I of House Habsburg
    Matthew 10:34

    Offline AnonymousCatholic

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 479
    • Reputation: +156/-63
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bonhoeffer: Hitler was anti-Catholic
    « Reply #24 on: February 06, 2019, 03:04:13 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Can we just admit that there WEREN'T good sides in WW2?

    Both the Axis and the Allies were garbage. What other side used nuclear weapons on two cities and killed a six-digit sum of people?
    This is the only Catholic perspective of world war two.
    If they do not kneel before the Altar of the Lord and His Church, they are no friend or ally of the Church. Maybe instead of looking to non Catholics to defend Catholicism, we should do it ourselves. 
    "The things that we love tell us who we are" - Thomas Aquinas

    Pray for us Blessed Karl I of House Habsburg
    Matthew 10:34

    Online forlorn

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 750
    • Reputation: +308/-421
    • Gender: Male


    Offline roscoe

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6990
    • Reputation: +420/-175
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bonhoeffer: Hitler was anti-Catholic
    « Reply #26 on: February 06, 2019, 02:43:18 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Can we just admit that there WEREN'T good sides in WW2?

    Both the Axis and the Allies were garbage. What other side used nuclear weapons on two cities and killed a six-digit sum of people?
    Nagasaki ABomb scored direct hit on Urakami Jesuit Cathedral... See D Dionisi-- Atomic Bomb Secrets..  :cowboy:
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline rum

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 705
    • Reputation: +338/-239
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bonhoeffer: Hitler was anti-Catholic
    « Reply #27 on: February 06, 2019, 05:37:42 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Is there anything the Nazis did to Jews that the Church hasn't done to Jews?

    Of course most people will say that the Church has never attempted to genocide the Jews, but then neither did the Nazis. Incidentally there's an interesting discussion about D. Bonhoeffer and Emmi Bonhoeffer over on Codoh.

    I'm scratching my head trying to think of anything the Nazis did to Jews that the Church hasn't done to them from time to time over the last 2000 years.

    roscoe, do you have any sources for your claim that Hitler was probably a marrano? I've heard this claim from various people, most notably the guy who runs big-lies.org.

    Offline hollingsworth

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2251
    • Reputation: +2448/-256
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bonhoeffer: Hitler was anti-Catholic
    « Reply #28 on: February 06, 2019, 05:52:19 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0

  • Quote
    Is there anything the Nazis did to Jews that the Church hasn't done to Jews?

    Of course most people will say that the Church has never attempted to genocide the Jews, but then neither did the Nazis. Incidentally there's an interesting discussion about D. Bonhoeffer and Emmi Bonhoeffer over on Codoh.

    I'm scratching my head trying to think of anything the Nazis did to Jews that the Church hasn't done to them from time to time over the last 2000 years.

    I'm inclined to agree.  the Nazis did not attempt to genocide the jews.  Drive them out of Germany, yes. Try to move them into Palestine, yes.  Use them as a slave wartime workforce, yes.  But genocide them, I doubt.

    Offline roscoe

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6990
    • Reputation: +420/-175
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bonhoeffer: Hitler was anti-Catholic
    « Reply #29 on: February 06, 2019, 07:03:13 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Is there anything the Nazis did to Jews that the Church hasn't done to Jews?

    Of course most people will say that the Church has never attempted to genocide the Jews, but then neither did the Nazis. Incidentally there's an interesting discussion about D. Bonhoeffer and Emmi Bonhoeffer over on Codoh.

    I'm scratching my head trying to think of anything the Nazis did to Jews that the Church hasn't done to them from time to time over the last 2000 years.

    roscoe, do you have any sources for your claim that Hitler was probably a marrano? I've heard this claim from various people, most notably the guy who runs big-lies.org.
    Rumor that Hitler was a Rothschild have been around for years. See A Hitler-- Founder of Israel by Henneke Kardel- New Century Press. Hitler looks mjuch more Asiatic than German. See also Kenneth Goff-- Hiter: Hoax Of 20th Century.
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

     

    Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16