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Author Topic: Blessed Cardinal John Henry Newman to be canonized Oct. 13.  (Read 9179 times)

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Offline Cera

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Re: Blessed Cardinal John Henry Newman to be canonized Oct. 13.
« Reply #135 on: August 02, 2019, 01:42:38 PM »
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  • Though it's said that he never taught error, are there lies of omission in his work?

    For example did he ever go on record teaching that the Jєωιѕн people, not just of Jesus' time, but for all time (excepting true conversion) are children of the devil? Did he ever say that his Jєωιѕн ancestors are in Hell?

    Or did he steer clear of talking about Jєωs? Did he approve of the Jєωιѕн prime minister Disraeli? Any info. on things he said about Jєωs?
    Do you disagree with Our Lord? He did NOT warn us against Jєωs; He warned us against "those who say they are Jєωs and ARE NOT" (emphasis added.)
    What is the basis of your arrogant assumption that all "Jєωιѕн ancestors are in hell?" It is not based on the words of Jesus; not based on the Bible, not based on the teachings of the Catholic Church. It is simply a matter of your own personal psychopathology.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary


    Offline Cera

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    Re: Blessed Cardinal John Henry Newman to be canonized Oct. 13.
    « Reply #136 on: August 02, 2019, 01:43:52 PM »
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  • Dear Incred,

    Thank you for posting that most moving account of St. Ambrose's death. Here we have a man in the last hours of his life, knowing full well that his death is immanent, and fully conscious and aware of his situation, but unable to speak his emotions. It is a very beautiful account, and I would wish to say that I will die such a beautiful death.

    Here is the opening excerpt from the link you posted for the benefit of other posters and readers:

    http://idlespeculations-terryprest.blogspot.com/2010/07/newman-and-st-john.html

    Father Ray in Newman and St John and Jack Valero in The Guardian in an article entitled The sad demise of celibate love  provide an antidote to the "chatter" about the deep but chaste friendship between Cardinal Newman and Father Ambrose St John.

    No doubt the "chatter" will get louder as the Beatification of the Cardinal draws ever nearer.

    For instance, a well-known gαy rights activist objected to the exhumation the remains of Cardinal Newman who was buried in the same grave as his close friend. He said: "The reburial has only one aim in mind: to cover up Newman's ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity and to disavow his love for another man."

    There seems to be a number of disparate groups who for their own purposes wish to prove that Cardinal Newman and Father St John were "a gαy couple"


    There seems to be a number of disparate groups who for their own purposes wish to prove that Cardinal Newman and Father St John were "a gαy couple"

    There are some who seem to wish to prove there was a gαy relationship so as to undermine the Catholic process of "Saint making"

    Others simply see it as a way of demonstrating that Catholicism and its high officers were and are false and use it as another stick to beat the Church.

    Lastly there are a few who see the beatification as being some kind of approval to gαy relationships even if sole and exclusive and founded on true love and fidelity. The members of the last "school" are frankly living in "cloud cuckoo land"
    :applause:
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary


    Offline Syracuse

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    Re: Blessed Cardinal John Henry Newman to be canonized Oct. 13.
    « Reply #137 on: August 02, 2019, 01:45:27 PM »
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  • All I know is I wouldn't want to be before the Throne of Jesus on Judgment Day guilty of a false accusation against a holy prelate cardinal of Christ's Mystical Body.

    You better have solid evidence before calling a cardinal a homo.
    "I'm running things now, and I'll do everything it takes to destroy the enemies of God. Now, you join me, and I promise you, you'll never have to worry about whether you're doing the right thing or the wrong thing, because we will do the only thing."
    ~ Joseph Croix de Fer

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Blessed Cardinal John Henry Newman to be canonized Oct. 13.
    « Reply #138 on: August 02, 2019, 02:02:51 PM »
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  • Wow, hard to believe a debate of a Vatican II sect canonization could go for 10 pages on a traditionalist forum. They canonized John XXIII, Paul VI, JPII, Opus Dei Escriva and in a few years they'll canonize Bergoilio, they'll canonize anyone. Get real people.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline rum

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    Re: Blessed Cardinal John Henry Newman to be canonized Oct. 13.
    « Reply #139 on: August 02, 2019, 02:33:27 PM »
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  • Do you disagree with Our Lord? He did NOT warn us against Jєωs; He warned us against "those who say they are Jєωs and ARE NOT" (emphasis added.)
    What is the basis of your arrogant assumption that all "Jєωιѕн ancestors are in hell?" It is not based on the words of Jesus; not based on the Bible, not based on the teachings of the Catholic Church. It is simply a matter of your own personal psychopathology.

    Those who call themselves Jєωs are of the flesh of the Old Covenant people (or some), but not of their spirit. Any dimwit could infer that I was referring to those who call themselves Jєωs. The Church has always taught that these people are children of the devil. It's odd that you're not attacking Cardinal Newman for referring to them as "Jєωs":

    Quote
    "Let us pray for the Jєωιѕн People, that they will return to the Lord their God, whom they have crucified". From Bl. John Henry Cardinal Newman (+1890).

    --http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2010/09/cardinal-newman-and-Jєωs.html

    As far as yids (is that better?) who don't convert going to Hell, do you think that one can gain Heaven without being a member of the Church?

    The eponymousflower link I posted shows that Cardinal Newman could exhibit the Catholic view of this people, and it doesn't appear to be conclusive that he had Jєωιѕн ancestry.

    Do you have a problem with anti-yid criticism, as suggested elsewhere: https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/eleison-comments-h0Ɩ0cαųstianity-%28no-603%29/15/
    Some would have people believe that I'm a deceiver because I've used various handles on different Catholic forums. They only know this because I've always offered such information, unprompted. Various troll accounts on FE. Ben on SuscipeDomine. Patches on ABLF 1.0 and TeDeum. GuitarPlucker, Busillis, HatchC, and Rum on Cathinfo.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Blessed Cardinal John Henry Newman to be canonized Oct. 13.
    « Reply #140 on: August 02, 2019, 02:39:23 PM »
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  • Grave doubts about Newman are nonsense
    Suggestions that Cardinal Newman was a repressed ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ are absurd.
    https://www.mercatornet.com/articles/view/grave_doubts_about_newman_are_nonsense/7581
    Jack Valero | Jul 13 2010 |  7 





    In October 2008 there was excitement over the exhumation, in the outskirts of Birmingham, of an eminent Victorian. The remains of Cardinal John Henry Newman were being dug up as part of the process towards declaring him a saint – Pope Benedict XVI will declare him "blessed" (the first stage) during his September visit to the UK – but the move disturbed more than the ground.
    The controversy turned on the curious fact that Newman was not alone in his tomb, having asked to be buried in the same plot as another priest he was very close to. "He loved me with an intensity of love, which was unaccountable," Newman wrote after the death of Father Ambrose St John, 15 years before his own.
    The object of the exhumation was to transfer Newman's remains to a marble sarcophagus in the Birmingham Oratory, giving people who wanted to pay their respects easy access to this revered English Catholic and major Christian thinker. But a well-known gαy rights activist objected. "The reburial has only one aim in mind: to cover up Newman's ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity and to disavow his love for another man," Peter Tatchell noisily alleged.
    Asit turned out, there were no remains to transfer. The coffin, not beinglead-lined, had decomposed. But the controversy left two ideas stuck inthe minds of many: that Newman was "gαy", and that the Catholic church wished to suppress the fact.
    Now, it is impossible to know what struggles went on in Newman's heart; but had he been asked, he would have found the question very strange. For him, the idea of "being ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ" would have been an unfamiliar and even pointless categorisation; what mattered was what people did. And on that question,Newman's contemporaries and modern biographers all agree: the author ofthe Apologia Pro Vita Sua never broke his vow of celibacy. His friendships may have been intense and emotional – but they were consistently chaste.
    Aged 16, Newmanhad a "deep imagination" that "it would be the will of God that I should lead a single life". As an Anglican he did not disdain marriage, and thought it a good thing for most people: "I think that country parsons ought, as a general rule, to be married – and I am sure the generality of men ought, whether parsons or not." But he himself was a dedicated celibate, as both an Anglican and (from his mid-40s) a Catholic priest. For Newman this was a state of life that allowed him tolove God with a wholehearted focus – but also to love many others intensely, in the pattern laid down by Jesus.
    This kind of celibate love has challenged most ages, but ours seems to have given up the struggle altogether. Such love, if it is directed towards one other of the same gender, is now assumed to be ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ – conditioned by homoerotic attraction, even if not acted upon – or if it does not have aparticular object will be thought of as disembodied devotion, like the love of an idealist for the human race as a whole (but not necessarily for individual members of it).
    Yet there is no evidence that Newman's attractions were homoerotic, and they were certainly not detached. He had an extraordinary capacity for deep friendship with manypeople, both men and women, as his 20,000 letters collected in 32 volumes attest. He often wrote to his friends as carissimi – "dearest ones" – but his was a more innocent age, far less suspicious of strong expressions of love between persons of the same sex.
    And he was not afraid to be very close indeed to a few people. "The best preparation for loving the world at large, and loving it duly and wisely," he wrote in a letter, "is to cultivate an intimate friendship and affection for those who are immediately about." Hence his deep friendships with those "immediately about" him: John Bowden as a student, Richard Hurrell Froude and Frederic Rogers while a don at Oxford, and Ambrose St John as a Catholic priest.
    St John had beenin Oxford with Newman; they became Catholics together, and were ordained priests in Rome at the same time. When Newman founded the Oratory in 1848, St John was one of the first members. Being 15 years Newman's junior, when he died suddenly aged 60, Newman was devastated. "I have ever thought no bereavement was equal to that of a husband's or awife's," he wrote, "but I feel it difficult to believe that any can be greater, or any one's sorrow greater, than mine." Some 15 centuries earlier, St Augustine in his Confessions wrote in the same way about thedeath not of his mistress, but of his best friend. "My eyes sought him everywhere, but they did not see him; and I hated all places because he was not in them, because they could not say to me, 'Look, he is coming,'as they did when he was alive and absent."
    Newman's desire to share a tomb with St John may seem unusual to the modern eye. Yet Alan Bray in his seminal work The Friend (2003) cites many such examples of friends sharing tombs in previous centuries: there is one in Gonville and Caius College, Cambridge; and another at Merton College, Oxford. Such public commitments to "marriages of the soul" were common in pre-modern times, Bray notes, before they were eroded by the Enlightenment ethic of "universal" and "rational" fraternity. Bray's conclusion is striking: "Newman's burial with St John cannot be detached from Newman's understanding of the place of friendship in Christian belief or its longhistory."
    Reading the final page of Newman's Apologia – lyricallydedicated to all his Oratorian brothers and especially to "Ambrose St John, whom God gave me, when He took everyone else away; who are the link between my old life and my new; who have now for 21 years been so devoted to me, so patient, so zealous, so tender" – the writer George Eliot was impressed. "Pray mark that beautiful passage in which he thanks his friend Ambrose St John," she wrote to a friend. "I know hardly anything that delights me more than such evidences of sweet brotherly love being a reality in the world."
    Do we – can we – today applaud such friendship? Do we – can we – make room, now, for such"evidences of sweet brotherly love"? Men and women often have intense friendships with members of their own sex, friendships that have no sɛҳuąƖ component; yet we are losing the vocabulary to speak about them, or we are embarrassed to do so. A "friend" is one you add to a social networking profile on the web; or it is a euphemism for a sɛҳuąƖ partneroutside marriage. Can a man nowadays own up with pride to having a dearand close friend, another man to whom he is devoted? Can he, without itbeing suspected as repressed ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity? I fear the answer to both may be "no". And it is hard to know which is the sadder.
    Jack Valero is the Press Officer for the Beatification of Cardinal Newman.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Blessed Cardinal John Henry Newman to be canonized Oct. 13.
    « Reply #141 on: August 02, 2019, 03:33:06 PM »
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  • Do you have a problem with anti-yid criticism, as suggested elsewhere: https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/eleison-comments-h0Ɩ0cαųstianity-%28no-603%29/15/
    I was clear: I have a problem with those who deny Christ by hating a group of people, and who deny Christ by disregarding His words.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Blessed Cardinal John Henry Newman to be canonized Oct. 13.
    « Reply #142 on: August 02, 2019, 03:36:36 PM »
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  • Any dimwit could infer that I was referring to those who call themselves Jєωs.
    Jesus did not warn us against those who call themselves Jєωs.
    He warned us against "those who call themselves Jєωs and are ARE NOT."
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary


    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Blessed Cardinal John Henry Newman to be canonized Oct. 13.
    « Reply #143 on: August 02, 2019, 04:20:13 PM »
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  • Jesus did not warn us against those who call themselves Jєωs.
    He warned us against "those who call themselves Jєωs and are ARE NOT."
    All тαℓмυdic Jєωs are not true Jєωs, the тαℓмυd is satanic in nature and derives from the teachings of the pharisees. Modern day Jєωs are all members of the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan. 

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Blessed Cardinal John Henry Newman to be canonized Oct. 13.
    « Reply #144 on: August 02, 2019, 07:16:08 PM »
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  • Wow, hard to believe a debate of a Vatican II sect canonization could go for 10 pages on a traditionalist forum. They canonized John XXIII, Paul VI, JPII, Opus Dei Escriva and in a few years they'll canonize Bergoilio, they'll canonize anyone. Get real people.
     Hard to believe? Where else but in a traditional forum would you find such a 10 page discussion? 

    Do take into account that the bolded personages were stars of Varican ll. Blessed John Henry Newman had no part in it. 
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Blessed Cardinal John Henry Newman to be canonized Oct. 13.
    « Reply #145 on: August 03, 2019, 02:37:08 AM »
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  • Quote from: Last Tradhican on Yesterday at 02:02:51 PM
    Quote
    Wow, hard to believe a debate of a Vatican II sect canonization could go for 10 pages on a traditionalist forum. They canonized John XXIII, Paul VI, JPII, Opus Dei Escriva and in a few years they'll canonize Bergoilio, they'll canonize anyone. Get real people

     Hard to believe? Where else but in a traditional forum would you find such a 10 page discussion?

    Do take into account that the bolded personages were stars of Varican ll. Blessed John Henry Newman had no part in it.
    No one would be discussing the canonization of Newman were it not that the Vatican II sect is going to canonize him, the Vatican II sect that canonizes Paul VI. 
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Blessed Cardinal John Henry Newman to be canonized Oct. 13.
    « Reply #146 on: August 03, 2019, 02:47:39 AM »
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  • Hard to believe? Where else but in a traditional forum would you find such a 10 page discussion?

    Do take into account that the bolded personages were stars of Varican ll. Blessed John Henry Newman had no part in it.

    No one would be discussing the canonization of Newman were it not that the Vatican II sect is going to canonize him, the Vatican II sect that canonizes Paul VI.
    https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/vatican-approves-second-miracle-for-blessed-john-henry-newman-87278

    Vatican approves second miracle for Blessed John Henry Newman
    Nov 28, 2018 - A second miracle attributed to Blessed John Henry Newman has reportedly been approved by the Vatican, ….

    Two "miracles" reportedly attributed to him, that's nothing. The Vatican II sect does not need any miracles, they can just make them up. The Catholic Church needed MANY miracles. Pius X had more miracles in one day.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Blessed Cardinal John Henry Newman to be canonized Oct. 13.
    « Reply #147 on: August 03, 2019, 07:59:55 AM »
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  • No one would be discussing the canonization of Newman were it not that the Vatican II sect is going to canonize him, the Vatican II sect that canonizes Paul VI.
    True.  Discussing the canonization of anyone by the Vatican II sect is like discussing the canonization of anyone by any non-Catholic sect.  However, most trads believe that the Vatican II church is the Catholic Church despite the fact that they dub it the "Conciliar Church".    
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Blessed Cardinal John Henry Newman to be canonized Oct. 13.
    « Reply #148 on: August 03, 2019, 01:00:29 PM »
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  • Blessed Cardinal John Henry Newman to be canonized Oct. 13. In all humility, it is important for us to realize that although Bergoglio has canonized “saints” who leave much to be desired, we are guilty of pride as well as black-and-white thinking if we have a knee-jerk reaction against his canonization. Blessed Newman was a strong opponent of liberalism, as you can see here in an excerpt from Rorate Caeli -- one of his sermons opposing liberalism.

    I realise I am late posting on this topic and reading all comments gone by is difficult. As some of you may know, Newman is known as 'the pioneer and prophet of Vatican II.'
    Now one may ask what does a saint of the Catholic Church mean? That he is in Heaven? No, a canonised saint should be one of those Catholic people who showed us an example of what it means to be Catholic in every way. They should be without fault and be seen as a teacher on how to get to heaven.

    Now we all know Vatican II and its popes have literally destroyed the Catholic religion all over the Earth. The statistics are frightening, how in 50 years the Catholicism of 1960 years has been eliminated as an influence from all countries worldwide. To try to make Vatican II look Catholic they have canonised all popes who promoted their clown masses and a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ hierarchy. The day I address any of them as Saints will never come. My research into Henry Newman showed me he is indeed worthy of the title Patron and Prophet of Vatican Ii.

    ‘When Darwin’s Origin of Species was published in 1859, it came as no surprise to Henry Newman. His idea of history, with change and development implicit in it, enabled him to comprehend Darwin’s claims, which shocked so many well-educated men whose minds were dominated by a static view of history. They believed in a literal exposition of the Book of Genesis. Newman’s view of history was dynamic and he found no difficulty in reconciling his views to Darwin’s.’---Brian Martin: J. H. Newman, His Life and Work, Challo & Windus, London, 1982, p.76.

    NEWMAN’S GALILEO, REVELATION, AND THE EDUCATED MAN (1861).

    One of the characteristics of the day is the renewal of that collision between men of science and believers in Revelation, and of that uneasiness in the public mind as to its results, which are found in the history of the 17th century. Then Galileo raised the jealousy of Catholics in Italy; and now in England the religious portion of the community, Catholic or not, is startled at the discoveries or speculations of geologists, natural historians and linguists. Of course I am speaking, as regards both dates, of the educated classes, of those whose minds have been sufficiently opened to understand the nature of proof, who have a right to ask questions and to weigh the answers given to them. [Newman's proof for heretical heliocentrism, the Educated Classes] It was of such, we must reasonably suppose, that Father Commissary was tender in 1637 [1632], and to such he allied in his conversation with Galileo, as he took him in his carriage to the Holy Office. “As we went along,” says Galileo, “he put many questions to me, and showed an earnestness that I should repair the scandal, which I had given to the whole of Italy, by maintaining the opinion of the motion of the Earth; and for all the solid and mathematical reasons which I presented to him, he did but reply to me: “Terra autem in aeternum stabit,’ because ‘Terra autem in aeternum stat,’ as Scripture says.” [“The Earth will eternally stand still” because “the Earth stands still eternally,”] There could not be a greater shock to religious minds of that day than Galileo’s doctrine, whether they at once rejected it as contrary to the faith, or listened to the arguments by which he enforced it. The feeling was strong enough to effect Galileo’s compulsory recantation, though a Pope was then on the throne who was personally friendly to him. Two Sacred Congregations represented the popular voice and passed decrees against the philosopher, which were in force down to the years 1822 and 1837 [1835]. Such an alarm never can occur again, for the very reason that it has occurred once. At least, for myself, I can say that, had I been brought up in the belief of the immobility of the Earth as though a dogma of Revelation, and had associated it in my mind with the incommunicable dignity of man among created things, with the destinies of the human race, with the locality of purgatory and hell, and other Christian doctrines, and then for the first time had heard Galileo’s thesis, and, moreover, the prospect held out to me that perhaps there were myriads of globes like our own all filled with rational creatures as worthy of the Creator’s regard as we are, I should have been at once indignant at its presumption and frightened at its speciousness, as I never can be at any parallel novelties in other human sciences bearing on religion; no, not though I found probable reasons for thinking the first chapters of Genesis were not of an economical character, that there was a pre-Adamite race of rational animals, or that we are now 20,000 years from Noe. For that past controversy and its issue have taught me beyond all mistake, that men of the greatest theological knowledge may firmly believe that scientific conclusions are contrary to the Word of God, when they are not so, and pronounce that to be heresy which is truth. It has taught me, that Scripture is not inspired to convey mere secular knowledge, whether about the heaven or the Earth, or the race of man; and that I need not fear for Revelation whatever truths may be brought to light by means of observation and experience out of the world of phenomena which environ us. And I seem to myself here to be speaking under the protection and sanction of the Sacred Congregation of the Index itself, which has since the time of Galileo prescribed to itself a line of action, indication of its fearlessness of any results which may happen to religion from physical sciences. Many books have since that time been placed upon its prohibited catalogue, the worlds of (humanly speaking) distinguished men, the works of Morkof, Puffendorf, Brucker, Ranke, Hallam, Macauley and Mill; but I find no one of physical celebrity, unless such writers as Dr. Erasmus, Darwin, Bonucci, Klee and Burdach are so to be accounted. One great lesson surely, if no other, is taught by the history of theological controversy since the 16th century: moderation to the assailant, equanimity to the assailed, and that as regards geological and ethnological conclusions as well as astronomical. But there is more than this to give us confidence in this matter. Consider then the case before us: Galileo on his knees abjured the heresy that the Earth moved; but the course of human thought, of observation, investigation and induction, could not be stayed; it went on and had its way. It penetrated and ran through the Catholic world as well as through the nations external to it. And then at length, in our own day, the doctrine, which was the subject of it, was found to be so harmless in a religious point of view, that the books advocating it were taken off the Index, and the prohibition to print and publish the like was withdrawn. But of course the investigation has gone further, and done, or is now even doing, some positive service to the cause which it was accused of opposing. It is on the way to restore to the Earth that prerogative and pre-eminence in the creation which it was thought to compromise. Thus investigation, which Catholics would have suppressed as dangerous, when, in spite of them, it has had its course, results in conclusions favourable to their cause. How little then need we fear the free exercise of reason! How injurious is the suspicion entertained of it by religious men. How true it is that nature and revelation are nothing but two separate communications from the same infinite Truth. Nor is this all. Much has been said of late years of the dangerous tendency of geological speculations or researches. Well, what harm have they done to the Christian cause, others must say who are more qualified than I am to determine; but on one point, that is the point before us, I observe it is acting on the side of Christian belief. In answer to the supposed improbability of their being planets with rational inhabitants, considering that our globe has such, geology teaches us that, in fact, whatever our religion may accidentally teach us to hope or fear about other worlds, in this world at least, long ages past, we had either no inhabitants at all, or none but those rude and vast brutal forms, which could perform no intelligent homage and service to their Creator. Thus one order of spiritual researches bears upon another, and that in the interest or service of Christianity; and supposing, as some persons seem to believe in their hearts, that these researches are all in the hands of the enemy of God, we have the observable phenomenon of Satan casting out Satan and restoring the balance of physical arguments in favour of Revelation. Now let us suppose that the influences which were in the ascendant throughout Italy in 1637 had succeeded in repressing any free investigation on the question of the motion of the Earth. The mind of the educated class would have not the less felt that it was a question, and would have been haunted, and would have been poisoned, by the misgiving that there was some real danger to Revelation in the investigation; for otherwise the ecclesiastical authorities would not have forbidden it. There would have been in the Catholic community a mass of irritated, ill-tempered, feverish and festering suspicion, engendering general scepticism and hatred of the priesthood, and relieving itself in a sort of tacit Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, of which secret societies are the development, and then in sudden outbreaks perhaps of violence and blasphemy. Protestantism is a dismal evil; but in this respect Providence has overruled it for the good.  It has, by allowing free inquiry in science, destroyed a bugbear, and thereby saved Catholics so far from the misery of hollow profession and secret infidelity. I think, then, I must say distinctly that I have no sympathy at all in that policy, which will not look difficulties or apparent difficulties in the face, and puts off the evil day of considering them as long as it can.  It is the way of politicians who live from hand to mouth, only careful that the existing state of things should last their time. If I find that scientific inquiries are running counter against certain theological opinions, it is not expedient to refuse to examine whether these opinions are well founded, merely because those inquiries have not yet reached their issue or attained a triumphant success. The history of Galileo is the proof of it.  Are we not at a disadvantage as regards that history? Why, except because our theologians, instead of cautiously examining what Scripture, that is, the Written Word of God, really said, thought it better to put down with a high hand the astronomical views which were opposed to its popular interpretation? The contrary course was pursued in our own day; but what is not against the faith now, was not against the faith three centuries ago; yet Galileo was forced to pronounce his opinions a heresy. It might not indeed have been prudent to have done in 1637 what was done in 1822; but, though in the former date it might have been unjustifiable to allow the free publication of his treatises with the sanction of the Church, that does not show that it was justifiable to pronounce that they were against the faith and to enforce the abjuration. I am not certain that I might not go further and advocate the full liberty to teach the motion of the Earth, as a philosophical truth, not only now, but even three centuries ago. The Father Commissary said it was a scandal to the whole of Italy; that is, I suppose, an offence, a shock, a perplexity. This might be, but there was a class, whose claims to consideration are too little regarded now, and were passed over then. I mean the educated class; to them the prohibition would be a real scandal in the true meaning of the word, an occasion of their falling. Men who have sharpened their intellects by exercise and study anticipate the conclusions of the many by some centuries. If the tone of public opinion in 1822 called for a withdrawal of the prohibition at Trent of the Earth’s movement, the condition of the able and educated called for it in Galileo’s age; and it is as clear to me that their spiritual state ought to be consulted for, as it is difficult to say why in fact it is so often is not. They are tenderly to be regarded for their own sake; they are to be respected and conciliated for the sake of their influence upon other classes. I cannot help feeling that, in high circles, the Church is sometimes looked upon as made up of the hierarchy and the poor, and that the educated portion, men and women, are viewed as a difficulty, an encuмbrance, as the seat and source of heresy, as almost aliens to the Catholic body, whom it would be a great gain, if possible, to annihilate. For all these reasons, I cannot agree with those who would have us stand by what is probably or possibly erroneous, as if it were dogma, till it is acknowledged on all hands, by the force of demonstrations to be actually such.  If she affirms, as I do not think she will affirm, that everything was made and finished in a moment though Scripture seems to say otherwise, and though science seems to prove otherwise, I affirm it too, and with an inward and sincere assent.  And, as her word is to be believed, so her command is to be obeyed. I am as willing then to be silenced on doctrinal matters which are not of faith as to be taught in matters which are.  It would be nothing else than a great gain to be rid of the anxiety which haunts a person circuмstanced as I am, lest, by keeping silence on points as that on which I have begun to speak, I should perchance be hiding my talent in a napkin.  I should welcome the authority which by its decision allowed me to turn my mind to subjects more congenial to it.  On the other hand, it is legitimate authority alone which I have any warrant to recognize; as to the ipse dixit of individual divines, I have long essayed to divest myself of what spiritual writers call “human respect.”  I am indeed too old to be frightened and my past has set loose my future.[1]

    [1]As found in James Collins, Philosophical Readings on Cardinal John Henry Newman (Chicago: H. Regnery Press, 1961), pp.284-291. http://inters.org/Newman-Galileo-Revelation

    Modernism personified To show this read Pope benedict XV's Spiritus Peractlitus of 1920.

    ‘Yet no one can pretend that certain recent writers really adhere to these limitations. For while conceding that inspiration extends to every phrase -- and, indeed, to every single word of Scripture -- yet, by endeavouring to distinguish between what they style the primary or religious and the secondary or profane element in the Bible, they claim that the effect of inspiration -- namely, absolute truth and immunity from error -- are to be restricted to that primary or religious element. Their notion is that only what concerns religion is intended and taught by God in Scripture, and that all the rest -- things concerning “profane knowledge,” the garments in which Divine truth is presented -- God merely permits, and even leaves to the individual author’s greater or less knowledge. Small wonder, then, that in their view a considerable number of things occur in the Bible touching physical science [like geocentrism], history and the like, which cannot be reconciled with modern progress in science. Some even maintain that these views do not conflict with what our predecessor laid down since -- so they claim -- he said that the sacred writers spoke in accordance with the external -- and thus deceptive -- appearance of things in nature. But the Pontiff's own words show that this is a rash and false deduction. For sound philosophy teaches that the senses can never be deceived as regards their own proper and immediate object. Therefore, from the merely external appearance of things -- of which, of course, we have always to take account as Leo XIII, following in the footsteps of St. Augustine and St. Thomas, most wisely remarks -- we can never conclude that there is any error in Sacred Scripture…..’
    .

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Blessed Cardinal John Henry Newman to be canonized Oct. 13.
    « Reply #149 on: August 03, 2019, 01:26:56 PM »
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  • All тαℓмυdic Jєωs are not true Jєωs, the тαℓмυd is satanic in nature and derives from the teachings of the pharisees.

    Modern day Jєωs are all members of the ѕуηαgσgυє of Satan.
    I totally agree with the first statement.
    The second statement regarding "modern day Jєωs" is a stretch. I have to reiterate the words of Jesus who warned us against "those who say they are Jєωs and are not." IMHO, He is warning us against тαℓмυdic Jєωs. Not all "modern day Jєωs" are тαℓмυdic.

    The disagreement was with the poster who claimed, based on the unfounded rumor that Blessed Cardinal Newman had a Jєωιѕн background, that all of his family members were in hell. (He later modified that egregious statement to add, "if they had not repented.")
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary