Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => General Discussion => Topic started by: Augstine Baker on January 12, 2012, 07:09:11 PM
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It is a legend that hand communion goes back to the first century. It comes much more from the devilish schismatic of Geneva, John Calvin. -kreuz.net
(kreuz.net) The current form of hand communion stems from the Calvinists.
This is what Auxiliary Bishop Athanasius Schneider (50) of Astana in Kazakhstan said at the end of October for the videosite 'gloria.tv'.
"That was an abuse"
Calvinist self-communion was introduced in the 1960s by decadent Catholic Communities in the Netherlands.
This step happened in disobedience to ecclesiastical rules -- Msgr Schneider stressed: "That was an abuse and the Holy See forbid it in the 1960s."
Finally Paul VI († 1978) addressed hand communion in the Docuмent 'Memoriale Domini' in May 1969 with a "heavy heart":
"In this docuмent the Church said that this form is an exception and that kneeling Communion would remain the rule."
http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2012/01/bishop-schneider-hand-communion-must-go.html
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When the SSPX suggested the same thing for 40 years everyone called the idea schismatic. What will the Neo-Caths' response be to this Bishop in "full communion"?
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When the SSPX suggested the same thing for 40 years everyone called the idea schismatic. What will the Neo-Caths' response be to this Bishop in "full communion"?
They just ignore him, but they can't ignore him indefinitely. The seems are already coming apart on their bloated, government subsidized, religion monopoly.
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It is pious for an orthodox-minded Novus Ordo prelate to speak against communion in the hand. But executing Catholic practices in a Protestant-made liturgy of the New Mass is like putting lipstick on a pig. The real solution is to return to Tradition and if possible, conditionally ordain the New Bishops and New Priests ordained in the New Rite, since evidence pointed by Fr. Malachi Martin and Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre demonstrate the New Rite may be doubtful as a result of defect of intention.
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It is pious for an orthodox-minded Novus Ordo prelate to speak against communion in the hand. But executing Catholic practices in a Protestant-made liturgy of the New Mass is like putting lipstick on a pig. The real solution is to return to Tradition and if possible, conditionally ordain the New Bishops and New Priests ordained in the New Rite, since evidence pointed by Fr. Malachi Martin and Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre demonstrate the New Rite may be doubtful as a result of defect of intention.
Any rite can be invalid for that reason.
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It is pious for an orthodox-minded Novus Ordo prelate to speak against communion in the hand. But executing Catholic practices in a Protestant-made liturgy of the New Mass is like putting lipstick on a pig. The real solution is to return to Tradition and if possible, conditionally ordain the New Bishops and New Priests ordained in the New Rite, since evidence pointed by Fr. Malachi Martin and Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre demonstrate the New Rite may be doubtful as a result of defect of intention.
Any rite can be invalid for that reason.
A rite of the Church can never be invalid per se - not for any reason.
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The real solution is to return to Tradition .....
Yes they need to return to Tradition. Return to the Faith.
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I forgot to add that... yes it is necessary to return to the True Faith in order for these liturgical abuses to go away...
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It is pious for an orthodox-minded Novus Ordo prelate to speak against communion in the hand. But executing Catholic practices in a Protestant-made liturgy of the New Mass is like putting lipstick on a pig. The real solution is to return to Tradition and if possible, conditionally ordain the New Bishops and New Priests ordained in the New Rite, since evidence pointed by Fr. Malachi Martin and Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre demonstrate the New Rite may be doubtful as a result of defect of intention.
Any rite can be invalid for that reason.
A rite of the Church can never be invalid per se - not for any reason.
Any sacrament can be invalid for that reason.
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The Church can't promulgate an invalid rite.
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The Church can't promulgate an invalid rite.
No, but any sacrament can be invalid for reasons of form, matter and intention.
You can believe whatever you want about the NO, that doesn't matter to me.
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The Catholic Church cannot promulgate a New Liturgy that embodies ambiguity and professes false ecuмenism and Protestant theological quirks on liturgical manners.
Like dogma, liturgical laws in the Church are infallible. They cannot be contrary to Faith or cause the faithful to sin while simultaneously obeying the law. If the Church were to enforce liturgical laws or liturgies harmful to the True Faith, then the gates of Hell have prevailed against the Church.
Since Our Lord promised that Hell could never envelope Our Church, the logical reasoning is that the men who made these laws or the New Mass were either not Catholic or have fallen into heresy or apostasy. If men from the Church fall away from the True Faith, particularly if they're clerics, they automatically forfeit their office. In the Canon Law, promulgated by St. Pius X, public declaration would not be necessary.
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The Church can't promulgate an invalid rite.
No, but any sacrament can be invalid for reasons of form, matter and intention.
You can believe whatever you want about the NO, that doesn't matter to me.
Earlier you said the rite could be invalid.
A rite of the Cathoic Church can't in itself be defective or invalid.
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Roman Catholic,
Are you acknowledging that the New Order of Mass is a rite of the Catholic Church???
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Roman Catholic,
Are you acknowledging that the New Order of Mass is a rite of the Catholic Church???
Not at all. I am in general agreement with you on this matter.
Just pointing out to Aug that the Catholic Church can't promulgate a rite that is invalid.
However rites that are not of the Cathoilc Church can be invalid per se, due to defect of form or a defect of intention of the framers of the rite.