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Author Topic: Bishop Follows Popes Example: Kneeling Only  (Read 2254 times)

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Offline Augstine Baker

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Bishop Follows Popes Example: Kneeling Only
« on: December 31, 2011, 06:20:10 PM »
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  • Bishop Follows Pope Benedict's Example: Kneeling Only
    (Brasilia)  Bishop Msgr Antonio Keller, of German descent, head shepherd of the southern Brazilian Diocese  Frederico Westphalen is only giving Holy Communion since Christmas in his Cathedral church to those who are kneeling and on the tongue.  He is following the example of Pope Benedict XVI in this and is intending to support the "reform of the reform".

    http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2011/12/bishop-follows-pope-benedicts-example.html


    Offline Roman Catholic

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    Bishop Follows Popes Example: Kneeling Only
    « Reply #1 on: December 31, 2011, 07:07:43 PM »
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  • Benedict is a Modernist, who employs the tactics of Modernists...


    http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/BXVI-Mass-Complete-With-Bombo-Drum-and-Goat-Nails


    Offline Augstine Baker

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    Bishop Follows Popes Example: Kneeling Only
    « Reply #2 on: December 31, 2011, 07:18:36 PM »
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  • Quote from: Roman Catholic
    Benedict is a Modernist, who employs the tactics of Modernists...


    http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/BXVI-Mass-Complete-With-Bombo-Drum-and-Goat-Nails


    quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

    Offline Roman Catholic

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    Bishop Follows Popes Example: Kneeling Only
    « Reply #3 on: December 31, 2011, 07:41:40 PM »
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  • Quote from: Augstine Baker
    Quote from: Roman Catholic
    Benedict is a Modernist, who employs the tactics of Modernists...


    http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/BXVI-Mass-Complete-With-Bombo-Drum-and-Goat-Nails


    quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur



    Some of the content in forum alone is sufficient evidence for the claim.


    Offline stevusmagnus

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    Bishop Follows Popes Example: Kneeling Only
    « Reply #4 on: December 31, 2011, 08:59:46 PM »
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  • Quote from: Augstine Baker
    Bishop Follows Pope Benedict's Example: Kneeling Only
    (Brasilia)  Bishop Msgr Antonio Keller, of German descent, head shepherd of the southern Brazilian Diocese  Frederico Westphalen is only giving Holy Communion since Christmas in his Cathedral church to those who are kneeling and on the tongue.  He is following the example of Pope Benedict XVI in this and is intending to support the "reform of the reform".

    http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2011/12/bishop-follows-pope-benedicts-example.html


    Since BXVI has said communion standing in the hand is completely legitimate also, why in the world does it matter? Then if the next Pope gives communion in the hand, will Bishop Keller follow suit?


    Offline Sigismund

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    Bishop Follows Popes Example: Kneeling Only
    « Reply #5 on: December 31, 2011, 09:41:45 PM »
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  • So, am I to conclude that being a trad means that even when the pope does something you approve of, you have to find some way to be annoyed by it?  Glad to be a lowly semi-trad then...
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline Santo Subito

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    Bishop Follows Popes Example: Kneeling Only
    « Reply #6 on: December 31, 2011, 09:45:14 PM »
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  • CITH is an exception to the rule, allowed if particular episcopal conferences request it and the Pope approves it.

    The Pope is leading by example instead of by force. Reception of Communion in the hand is not intrinsically evil or sacrilegious as it was practiced in the ancient Church, even if it was not the majority practice. If CITH is intrinsically sacrilegious or evil then the Church defected long ago. Same with allowing the laity to receive Communion under both kinds. However, the Pope believes that communion on the tongue kneeling is a better practice.

    http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope_prefers_communion_on_the_tongue_msgr._marini_says/

    Quote
    As for communion placed by the pope on the tongues of the faithful, kneeling – during his recent visit to Santa Maria di Leuca and Brindisi – Marini affirms that this will become "a regular practice at papal celebrations." And he continues:

    «In this regard, it must not be forgotten that the distribution of communion in the hand remains, from the juridical point of view, a dispensation from the universal law, conceded by the Holy See to the bishops' conferences that have asked for it. The practice adopted by Benedict XVI tends to emphasize the continued validity of the norm for the whole Church. In addition, one might also note a preference for the use of this manner of distribution which, without taking anything away from the other, better highlights the truth of the real presence in the Eucharist, aids the devotion of the faithful, and makes it easier to enter into the sense of mystery. In our time, pastorally speaking, it is urgent to recover and emphasize these aspects.

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    Bishop Follows Popes Example: Kneeling Only
    « Reply #7 on: December 31, 2011, 09:51:54 PM »
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  • Your quote says "without taking anything away from the other." The Pope refers to a "preference". Therefore BXVI does not think it is "better" objectively. It is merely a personal preference. Therefore will the Bishop follow the personal preference of every Pope? Legitimate question.

    Also even if CITH was previously allowed by the Church (which is debatable) it was not done as is done today. It was a much more careful and detailed reception. Today patens are not even used and particles of Our Lord fall to the floor regularly to be trampled underfoot, which, last I checked, is a sacrilege.


    Offline Augstine Baker

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    Bishop Follows Popes Example: Kneeling Only
    « Reply #8 on: January 01, 2012, 02:14:10 AM »
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  • Offline Augstine Baker

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    Bishop Follows Popes Example: Kneeling Only
    « Reply #9 on: January 01, 2012, 02:15:33 AM »
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  • Quote from: Roman Catholic
    Quote from: Augstine Baker
    Quote from: Roman Catholic
    Benedict is a Modernist, who employs the tactics of Modernists...


    http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/BXVI-Mass-Complete-With-Bombo-Drum-and-Goat-Nails


    quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur



    Some of the content in forum alone is sufficient evidence for the claim.



    Modernist means whatever you want it to mean when you put on your polyester red beanie and start pontificating.

    Offline Augstine Baker

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    Bishop Follows Popes Example: Kneeling Only
    « Reply #10 on: January 01, 2012, 02:16:38 AM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    Quote from: Augstine Baker
    Bishop Follows Pope Benedict's Example: Kneeling Only
    (Brasilia)  Bishop Msgr Antonio Keller, of German descent, head shepherd of the southern Brazilian Diocese  Frederico Westphalen is only giving Holy Communion since Christmas in his Cathedral church to those who are kneeling and on the tongue.  He is following the example of Pope Benedict XVI in this and is intending to support the "reform of the reform".

    http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2011/12/bishop-follows-pope-benedicts-example.html


    Since BXVI has said communion standing in the hand is completely legitimate also, why in the world does it matter? Then if the next Pope gives communion in the hand, will Bishop Keller follow suit?


    Yes, maybe we should just do away with the office, or at least the person in the office so we don't have to worry about it.  

    Stay at home and dream of the perfect Catholicism only.


    Offline s2srea

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    Bishop Follows Popes Example: Kneeling Only
    « Reply #11 on: January 01, 2012, 08:41:02 AM »
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  • Quote from: Sigismund
    So, am I to conclude that being a trad means that even when the pope does something you approve of, you have to find some way to be annoyed by it?  Glad to be a lowly semi-trad then...


    How about being able to see hypocrisy and not being fooled into thinking every little good thing the pope does is as worthy of praise as you might wish. If his actions were perfectly 'good', then they would be completely supported by other 'good' actions.

    This bishop- is he trying his best? I would say yes. Of course we don't know the man, but we know enough to be able to compare him to other liberal and anti-Godly bishops to know this is a positive. He is probably good willed, as people in the NO are not to be thought of as bad. However, you, who has been graced with Tradition, should be able to see where these trads are coming from. They also, are not bad willed.

    Trads who seem to harp on, or who are "annoyed by", isolated actions which are good and traditional, don't do it for the sake of being mean and nasty Sigi. They do it trying to see the big picture.

    When you go out to buy a car, do you only point out the fact that it drove rather comfortably when you test drove it, or do you look at a Consumers Reports guide to see its reliability? Would you give the same credibility to a Daewoo as you would to a Mercedes?

    Offline Augstine Baker

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    Bishop Follows Popes Example: Kneeling Only
    « Reply #12 on: January 01, 2012, 11:34:15 AM »
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  • Quote from: s2srea
    Quote from: Sigismund
    So, am I to conclude that being a trad means that even when the pope does something you approve of, you have to find some way to be annoyed by it?  Glad to be a lowly semi-trad then...


    How about being able to see hypocrisy and not being fooled into thinking every little good thing the pope does is as worthy of praise as you might wish. If his actions were perfectly 'good', then they would be completely supported by other 'good' actions.

    This bishop- is he trying his best? I would say yes. Of course we don't know the man, but we know enough to be able to compare him to other liberal and anti-Godly bishops to know this is a positive. He is probably good willed, as people in the NO are not to be thought of as bad. However, you, who has been graced with Tradition, should be able to see where these trads are coming from. They also, are not bad willed.

    Trads who seem to harp on, or who are "annoyed by", isolated actions which are good and traditional, don't do it for the sake of being mean and nasty Sigi. They do it trying to see the big picture.

    When you go out to buy a car, do you only point out the fact that it drove rather comfortably when you test drove it, or do you look at a Consumers Reports guide to see its reliability? Would you give the same credibility to a Daewoo as you would to a Mercedes?


    How about letting things speak for themselves.  I've watched Novus Ordo Watch and "Father" Moderator get it wrong time and again on everything from Summorum Pontificuм, to the reconciliation with Campos and Institute of the Good Shepherd.

    It doesn't matter what this Pope does, you're going to assume the worst every time.

    Offline Sigismund

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    Bishop Follows Popes Example: Kneeling Only
    « Reply #13 on: January 01, 2012, 07:29:39 PM »
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  • I see that the Holy Father expects people to kneel for Communion at his Mass.  I see another bishop doing the same thing.  Of course they are not perfectly good.  Only two people in history have been, and One of them had the benefit of being God.  

    I am not an unqualified fan of this pope, if for no other reason that I think his handling of the sɛҳuąƖ abuse crisis had been shameful.  But I am an unqualified fan of kneeling to receive Our Lord, and I will happily praise anyone who does this, on either side of the Communion rial.  
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Bishop Follows Popes Example: Kneeling Only
    « Reply #14 on: January 01, 2012, 08:53:37 PM »
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  • Quote from: Santo Subito
    Reception of Communion in the hand is not intrinsically evil or sacrilegious as it was practiced in the ancient Church, even if it was not the majority practice. If CITH is intrinsically sacrilegious or evil then the Church defected long ago.


    Incorrect. CITH was practiced in the very early days of the Church, but even then they used a cloth over their hand when receiving the Eucharist. Eventually, the Church ruled that CITH was evil and should never again be practiced.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.