Author Topic: Bible verse that Protestants like to refer to (Read 1615 times)

InfiniteFaith · « **on:** November 26, 2011, 04:07:49 PM »

I can't seem to get the full understanding of what St. Paul is trying to communicate in Romans 10:9:

That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

This verse has got me baffled. Is it saying that alls we have to do is believe that Jesus is God and say it verbally and we will go to heaven? If this were the case then we could do whatever we want. We could commit fornication, adultery, murder, etc. and still go to heaven. Even though Corinthians 6:9 says this:

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sɛҳuąƖly immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ offenders.

So to me there is more than a belief that Jesus Christ is God and verbally expressing that. There is also obedience that is required of us as well. We can't just do whatever we want. So if that is the case then what could St. Paul be referring to in Romans 10:9?

Diego · « **Reply #1 on:** November 26, 2011, 04:38:27 PM »

I know nothing of the author, but this reference explains it as well and as succinctly as any I have heard:
http://www.scborromeo.org/papers/justrom.pdf

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #2 on:** November 26, 2011, 06:03:16 PM »

This source is good, but I was hoping for more. It almost seems that scripture is contradicting itself. Or perhaps it is a matter of more accurately translating from the original greek to english. Or perhaps there is a deeper meaning to what paul is saying.

Hobbledehoy · « **Reply #3 on:** November 26, 2011, 07:27:23 PM »

Protestants cite Scripture but de-contextualize and transmogrify it so as to suit their own deviant views. One must carefully read the section of the chapter in question in order to understand the verse in particular.

Here is something that may help, from The Epistles of St. Paul: With Introductions and Commentary for Priests and Students by Rev. Fr. Charles J. Callan, O.P. (New York: Joseph F. Wagner, Inc., 1922).

Diego · « **Reply #4 on:** November 26, 2011, 09:47:04 PM »

The fundamental problem is Protestantism's rejection of Tradition. Sola Sciptura denies 2 Thessalonians 2:14—so much for their amusing claim to be "Bible Believers." Tradition informs Holy Writ. Protestants ape the Pharisees who think they can nullify God's Law by pilpul, gematria or gezera shava.

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #5 on:** November 27, 2011, 12:34:34 AM »

Quote from: Hobbledehoy

Protestants cite Scripture but de-contextualize and transmogrify it so as to suit their own deviant views. One must carefully read the section of the chapter in question in order to understand the verse in particular.

Here is something that may help, from The Epistles of St. Paul: With Introductions and Commentary for Priests and Students by Rev. Fr. Charles J. Callan, O.P. (New York: Joseph F. Wagner, Inc., 1922).

This excerpt, from whatever book it is in, does in fact explain Romans 10. It mentions how Paul touches on the two main principles of Christianity which is professing ones faith in Jesus Christ (particularly right before baptism) with ones mouth, and believing in ones heart that he was risen from the dead. This article does not, however, show that these 2 principles are not enough for salvation.

LordPhan · « **Reply #6 on:** November 27, 2011, 12:47:40 AM »

Read the footnotes of the DRB. I don't even have to quote the Haydock, Bishop Challoner Explains it.

Quote

Thou shalt be saved. To confess the Lord Jesus, and to call upon the name of the Lord, (ver. 13.) is not barely the professing of a belief in the person of Christ: but moreover implies a belief of his whole doctrine, and an obedience to his law; without which the calling of him Lord will save no man. (St. Matthew vii. 21.) (Challoner)

LordPhan · « **Reply #7 on:** November 27, 2011, 12:51:32 AM »

Quote from: InfiniteFaith

I can't seem to get the full understanding of what St. Paul is trying to communicate in Romans 10:9:

That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

This verse has got me baffled. Is it saying that alls we have to do is believe that Jesus is God and say it verbally and we will go to heaven? If this were the case then we could do whatever we want. We could commit fornication, adultery, murder, etc. and still go to heaven. Even though Corinthians 6:9 says this:

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sɛҳuąƖly immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ offenders.

So to me there is more than a belief that Jesus Christ is God and verbally expressing that. There is also obedience that is required of us as well. We can't just do whatever we want. So if that is the case then what could St. Paul be referring to in Romans 10:9?

It is quite obvious you are not reading a DRB, I suggest you get a Catholic Bible.

These are the lines you are misquoting.

Cor:6
9 Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers,

10 Nor the effeminate, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God.

Rom: 10:

9 That if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him up from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For, with the heart, we believe unto justice: but, with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the Scripture saith: *Whosoever believeth in him, shall not be confounded.

12 For there is no distinction of the Jєω and the Greek; for the same is Lord over all, rich to all that call upon him.

13 *For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #8 on:** November 27, 2011, 01:19:00 AM »

Quote from: LordPhan

Read the footnotes of the DRB. I don't even have to quote the Haydock, Bishop Challoner Explains it.

Quote
Thou shalt be saved. To confess the Lord Jesus, and to call upon the name of the Lord, (ver. 13.) is not barely the professing of a belief in the person of Christ: but moreover implies a belief of his whole doctrine, and an obedience to his law; without which the calling of him Lord will save no man. (St. Matthew vii. 21.) (Challoner)

But we are mainly concerned with Romans 10:9

LordPhan · « **Reply #9 on:** November 27, 2011, 01:24:27 AM »

That is for Romans 10:9-13

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #10 on:** November 27, 2011, 01:25:18 AM »

Quote from: LordPhan

That is for Romans 10:9-13

I agree with that teaching. But I was looking for more evidence.

Diego · « **Reply #11 on:** November 27, 2011, 02:57:01 PM »

Quote from: InfiniteFaith

Quote from: LordPhan
That is for Romans 10:9-13

I agree with that teaching. But I was looking for more evidence.

The explanation has been handed to you on a silver platter.

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #12 on:** November 28, 2011, 02:09:07 PM »

So when He says:

"That if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

He is talking about doing this right before "Saving Baptism"?

St Jude Thaddeus · « **Reply #13 on:** November 28, 2011, 04:14:20 PM »

Just look at Romans 16 and 17:

[16] But all do not obey the gospel. For Isaias saith: Lord, who hath believed our report? [17] Faith then cometh by hearing; and hearing by the word of Christ.

All do not obey the gospel.

Faith comes by hearing, and is professed by confessing. Faith is demonstrated by one's obedience to God's commandments.

Again, a profession of faith is made by believing in the Lord Jesus with your heart, and confessing Him with your mouth, and by showing that you believe through your works.

This is clear also from James 1:22 [22] But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves, and also James 2:17-20 [17] So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself. [18] But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith. [19] Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. [20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

http://www.drbo.org/

Lines from Holy Scripture taken out of context are the daily bread of the Protestants. Martin Luther, by the way, wanted to eliminate the entire Letter of James, just like he chopped seven books out of the Old Testament that didn't agree with his "theories."

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #14 on:** November 28, 2011, 04:20:58 PM »

Quote from: St Jude Thaddeus

Just look at Romans 16 and 17:

[16] But all do not obey the gospel. For Isaias saith: Lord, who hath believed our report? [17] Faith then cometh by hearing; and hearing by the word of Christ.

All do not obey the gospel.

Faith comes by hearing, and is professed by confessing. Faith is demonstrated by one's obedience to God's commandments.

Again, a profession of faith is made by believing in the Lord Jesus with your heart, and confessing Him with your mouth, and by showing that you believe through your works.

This is clear also from James 1:22 [22] But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves, and also James 2:17-20 [17] So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself. [18] But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith. [19] Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. [20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

http://www.drbo.org/

Lines from Holy Scripture taken out of context are the daily bread of the Protestants. Martin Luther, by the way, wanted to eliminate the entire Letter of James, just like he chopped seven books out of the Old Testament that didn't agree with his "theories."

I agree with everything you are saying. I just wanted the logic part behind all of this.