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Author Topic: any REAL apparitions?  (Read 2636 times)

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Offline Banezian

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Re: any REAL apparitions?
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2018, 05:19:32 PM »
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  • No one needs to read your mind.  They can read your posts.
    Where did I say y'all were "graced by my presance"?  I just made a comment about the lack of scholarly discussions on here, and said that I don't care what Cathinfo thinks of me
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: any REAL apparitions?
    « Reply #31 on: June 21, 2018, 05:20:05 PM »
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  • Matthews CI poll says strongly otherwise. You seem to be a legend in your own mind. You have never answered my many times asked question asking for your age. You come off as a 20 year old with no real life experience. No offense.
    You're pretty close Last Trad.
     

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    Im a 19 year old Traditional Catholic guy. Very mature for my age ( melancholic scholarly type) 
    Now this thread has gone from "any REAL apparitions?" to "the apparition of Banezian", as if that's really important.  
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.


    Offline Banezian

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    Re: any REAL apparitions?
    « Reply #32 on: June 21, 2018, 05:30:37 PM »
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  • You guys would do well to stop arguing over meaningless topics, and have some real discussions. Wouldn't CI be a lot better if we discussed the Fathers and St. Thomas instead of BOD and silly cօռspιʀαcιҽs? How does any of this help posters grow in their faith? Before you take swipes at me for my age, I'd ask you how many of you can read Latin or Greek. What do you spend your free time doing? Studying Scripture and reading the Fathers, or arguing on silly forums like this?
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: any REAL apparitions?
    « Reply #33 on: June 21, 2018, 07:00:10 PM »
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  • I'd ask you how many of you can read Latin or Greek. What do you spend your free time doing?
    re: I'd ask you how many of you can read Latin or Greek?

    In my youth, when the USA was not overrun by Mexicans, I met so many experts in Spanish in my travels through the USA, I stopped counting.  When I started to talk to them in Spanish, they choked. "In the country of blind men, the one eyed man is a king".

    re: What do you spend your free time doing?

    Free time? Only children with parents that pay for everything have free time to study Greek and theology

    Reminds me of what my Dad told me when I said I'd like to study photography (I was 16 years old) : "Nice hobby son for you to read about in your spare time, but for the real world take up something that can provide for a family".
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Banezian

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    Re: any REAL apparitions?
    « Reply #34 on: June 21, 2018, 07:09:24 PM »
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  • re: I'd ask you how many of you can read Latin or Greek
    In my youth, when the USA was not overrun by Mexicans, I met so many experts in Spanish in my travels through the USA, I stopped counting.  When I started to talk to them in Spanish, they choked. "In the country of blind men, the one eyed man is a king".

    re: What do you spend your free time doing?

    Free time? Only children with parents that pay for everything have free time to study Greek and theology

    Reminds me of what my Dad told me when I said I'd like to study photography (I was 16 years old) : "Nice hobby son for you to do read about in your spare time, but for the real world take up something that can provide for a family".
    This is the typical anti-intellectual attitude that pervades in Trad circles. We need Trad Catholic scholars who can take on the tide of Modernism and secularism. I went to rigorous prep-schools, and I'd like to go back and teach at prep-school, so scholarship is quite important to me
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9


    Offline Matto

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    Re: any REAL apparitions?
    « Reply #35 on: June 21, 2018, 07:31:27 PM »
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  • This is the typical anti-intellectual attitude that pervades in Trad circles. We need Trad Catholic scholars who can take on the tide of Modernism and secularism.
    Good luck with that. Everyone has their own ideas about what we need. I think we need more stigmatists. But I have no idea how that would ever happen.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: any REAL apparitions?
    « Reply #36 on: June 21, 2018, 07:56:15 PM »
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  • You guys would do well to stop arguing over meaningless topics, and have some real discussions. Wouldn't CI be a lot better if we discussed the Fathers and St. Thomas instead of BOD and silly cօռspιʀαcιҽs? How does any of this help posters grow in their faith? Before you take swipes at me for my age, I'd ask you how many of you can read Latin or Greek. What do you spend your free time doing? Studying Scripture and reading the Fathers, or arguing on silly forums like this?
    I can read Latin and Greek and Hebrew.  I value the intellectual tradition of the Church very much.  In my experience, however, abstract theological discussions rarely help people to grow in their faith.

    Usually people most benefit from practical discussions on how to live out their faith every day.  For example, how do we balance our prayers and devotions with our duties of our state of life?  What sorts of recreation are wholesome and suitable for Catholics?   How can we best prepare ourselves for Confession and/or Mass?  What should we do when distracted at prayer?

    It's great that you would like to see this forum doing more to help people be better Catholics and I'm sure there is room for improvement for most of us.  But reading Latin and Greek has nothing to do with holiness.  On the contrary, pride in one's intellectual attainments is an obstacle to holiness. (I know because I've been there and done that.)

    What languages one knows or books one has read are mere knowledge. This is not the same as, or as important as, wisdom.  And neither of these is as important as kindness. One cannot be a scholar in service to the Church without a foundation of prayer and penance.   We are in constant danger of intellectual pride and can end up doing more harm than good, if it is left unchecked. 

    Not many people are called to be scholars.  You very well may be one of them, but this does not mean you should look down on those who are not.  Scholars have much to learn from non-scholars.  Many people will have some virtue in which they excel and we should be quick to recognize and imitate these.

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: any REAL apparitions?
    « Reply #37 on: June 21, 2018, 08:15:00 PM »
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  • This is the typical anti-intellectual attitude that pervades in Trad circles.
    Trads don't use birth control, so they have big families. Getting a job that provides for a family is more important to them than dreaming of being called an intellectual.

    Kid, the more you talk the worse it gets. Now you imagine yourself an intellectual. You are just living off your parents sweat. You have accomplished nothing yet in life and you criticize and complain to others who have. Good luck with that. Just during this thread your ratio has gone to 4:1 in the negative.

    Have a nice life.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: any REAL apparitions?
    « Reply #38 on: June 22, 2018, 08:36:29 AM »
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  • No, it is not akin to that because the canonization of a saint is infallible based on the second object of infallibility.  Approved apparitions are not.

    As for docuмentation regarding private revelations, I will check....

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13005a.htm

    There are two kinds of revelations: (1) universal revelations, which are contained in the Bible or in the depositum of Apostolic tradition transmitted by the Church. These ended with the preaching of the Apostles and must be believed by all; (2) particular or private revelations which are constantly occurring among Christians (see CONTEMPLATION). When the Church approves private revelations, she declares only that there is nothing in them contrary faith or good morals, and that they may be read without danger or even with profit; no obligation is thereby imposed on the faithful to believe them.
    LastTradhican:  Just want to make sure you saw this given how the thread went off-topic.
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: any REAL apparitions?
    « Reply #39 on: June 22, 2018, 09:09:41 AM »
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    Even apparitions that are approved by Church authority are considered private revelation and therefore no Catholic is required to believe in them.

    I believe this is a myth that keeps being repeated. Do you have any docuмentation on the matter? That excuse was used by that modernist/progressivist idiot critic of Fatima in the 1930's, I forget his name ( I tend to forget what I consider useless information), he concluded for one thing, that the 70,000 who saw the miracle of the Sun were victims of mass hallucination.

    Common sense tells me that if the Church has approved the apparition, and moreover, the seers were later declared saints, that to say "no Catholic is required to believe in them" is akin to saying no Catholic is required to believe a person is a saint.
    SSPX:
    As we are not dealing with the public or official revelation of God—sealed with the death of St. John—it follows that such divine manifestations cannot command or alter our faith. Each is free to accept or refuse them and no one will go to hell by rejecting them and this would apply even to one who, mysteriously but for some good reason, would deny the authenticity and efficacy of Fatima, for example. And yet, if heaven makes it a point of visiting the earth, there must be some urgency and it is most imprudent not to check this out with all diligence. The Apostle commands us: “Do not believe all spirits, but examine them.” This is what the Church, as always, needs to do in such cases: apply the rules for discerning the spirits. These can be quickly summed up thus..........


    Catholic Encyclopedia:
    When the Church approves private revelations, she declares only that there is nothing in them contrary to the faith or good morals, and that they may be read without danger or even with profit; no obligation is thereby imposed on the faithful to believe them. 
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Banezian

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    Re: any REAL apparitions?
    « Reply #40 on: June 22, 2018, 10:25:10 AM »
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  • I believe this is a myth that keeps being repeated. Do you have any docuмentation on the matter? That excuse was used by that modernist/progressivist idiot critic of Fatima in the 1930's, I forget his name ( I tend to forget what I consider useless information), he concluded for one thing, that the 70,000 who saw the miracle of the Sun were victims of mass hallucination.

    Common sense tells me that if the Church has approved the apparition, and moreover, the seers were later declared saints, that to say "no Catholic is required to believe in them" is akin to saying no Catholic is required to believe a person is a saint.

    SSPX:
    As we are not dealing with the public or official revelation of God—sealed with the death of St. John—it follows that such divine manifestations cannot command or alter our faith. Each is free to accept or refuse them and no one will go to hell by rejecting them and this would apply even to one who, mysteriously but for some good reason, would deny the authenticity and efficacy of Fatima, for example. And yet, if heaven makes it a point of visiting the earth, there must be some urgency and it is most imprudent not to check this out with all diligence. The Apostle commands us: “Do not believe all spirits, but examine them.” This is what the Church, as always, needs to do in such cases: apply the rules for discerning the spirits. These can be quickly summed up thus..........


    Catholic Encyclopedia:
    When the Church approves private revelations, she declares only that there is nothing in them contrary to the faith or good morals, and that they may be read without danger or even with profit; no obligation is thereby imposed on the faithful to believe them.
    Exactly
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9