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Author Topic: Ban of Mark79  (Read 2022 times)

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Offline Jaynek

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Ban of Mark79
« on: December 22, 2019, 07:24:37 AM »
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  • Matthew,

    Let it be known from the git go that this post of mine is being made without having consulted anyone before it being made.

    I was really shocked to hear about your ban of Mark 79, surely one of the best and the brightest to ever brighten the pages of CathInfo.  To bury the ban in a thread like this and to add your insulting remarks about Mark 79 only makes it worse.  I  pray that this ban is extremely short lived and comes with a sincere apology.

    In our modern society -- and this has been going on for some time -- our boys in school and our men at work are being feminized whether they realize it or not.  The boys can't play so rough and tumble as in years past and when they do play they are forced to play with the girls; even their language is excessively curtailed.  Often the men in the workplace are being forced directly and or indirectly to speak and act with great political correctness and many are on pins and needles around women in the workplace because they know that they can easily get charged (often falsely) with some sort of sɛҳuąƖ harassment or worse.  Surely, CathInfo is a step above our modern society.  Surely, its administrator can allow someone to stay on regardless of whether that someone is at peace or not with the administrator's decision.  Surely, the administrator is strong enough to take some counter criticism such as Mark's (and not delete it) from time to time, even if it is rather strong.

    Isn't it a good thing if there is a tough minded boy in a public school who stands up and constantly verbally puts down the boy who likes coming to school every day with pink hair and earrings?  Isn't it a good thing for a man in the public workplace to take an ongoing Christian stand against the open sodomite and or otherwise anti-Catholic in his and his fellow workers' midst.  Why show tolerance to the deviant while punishing the strong among us who make a good example for us by always reminding us of the deviancy so that the rest of us don't more easily become complacent to the deviancy or in your own words, "content with the status quo."?  Please apply to what I'm saying here to the case of Mark 79.

    Even if Mark 79 were obsessed (whatever that means) with Poche and I'm not saying he is, well so what!  Some of us are so sick of Poche that we are silently rooting Mark's responses on.  How do you know that Mark is not a sort of a proxy for many of us?!  In any event it is obvious that Mark's responses follow Poche's posts.  They are a reaction to Poche rather than some sort of preemptive action.  If Poche wants to post back in his defense let him do it.  Why does he need to have a "big brother" Matthew take a club and ban Mark 79 with it?

    It is ironic that you say Mark 79 is obsessed with Poche when no doubt some of us wonder with no small reason whether or not you are obsessed with Mark's "obsession."  

    How in the world can you state that, "Everyone else on CathInfo is content with the status quo."?  Do you live in each of our head's "rent free" to make such an assertion?!  There are hundreds (or is it thousands?) on CathInfo.  I am one of them and thus I am part of the "everyone" you refer to and I, for one, am definitely not content with your above referenced status quo?

    For goodness sake Matthew please allow Mark 79 (Mark 7:9), the man whose words pack more punch than a trusty M-79 back on to CathInfo.  If even Novus Ordo Poche can at least stand up to Mark on his own why can't tradCat Matthew?  Finally, I would ask that if you insist on continuing your ban of Mark that you do a clear OP on the subject rather do it under the cover of darkness as it were by having the notice of the ban buried in the middle of this thread.

    klasG4e

    While I agree that, in many ways, Mark79 is an asset to the forum, Matthew is right too.  Forums do not function well when members are unable to respect the decisions of the owner/moderator and repeatedly express their dissatisfaction.  Mark79 has, in effect, been spamming the forum with his (valid) complaints against Poche and it is disruptive of forum discussions.  We are seeing one thread after another derailed into a discussion of Poche.  It is necessary for Matthew to do something about this.  It is his responsibility to keep order (to the extent that it exists) on this forum.

    For the record, I think that Mark79 has taken a reasonable position.  I too am often infuriated by things that Poche has posted and consider him intellectually dishonest.  For what it's worth, Poche was banned at Suscipe Domine for trolling and even at Fisheaters.  He posts regularly on Catholic Answers where he seems to fit in well.  Considering Poche's reputation, I find it hard to imagine that many people would be disappointed if he stopped posting here.

    The problem is not that Mark79 is wrong about Poche, but that his response is analogous to vigilante justice.  We can understand Mark as "taking the law into his own hands".  For Matthew to ignore this would set a dangerous precedent.  

    I really want to see this resolved in a way that involves a quick return of Mark79 with his valuable knowledge and insights.  I encourage everyone to pray for Matthew and Mark79 to be strengthened in the virtues they need to reach a good outcome for this situation.


    Offline alaric

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    Re: Ban of Mark79
    « Reply #1 on: December 22, 2019, 07:50:54 AM »
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  • The problem is anyone taking pooche too seriously.


    He should not be debated, reasoned  or have any dialogue with.

    You will only aggravate yourself with this type. Believe me.

    You should only mock him like the clown that he is and move on. :clown:


    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Ban of Mark79
    « Reply #2 on: December 22, 2019, 07:53:42 AM »
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  • Obviously, this is Matthew's site so he can do what he wants.  That said, it would be a sign of good faith, not to mention Christian magnanimity, on his part to at least afford Mark the opportunity to present his case.  I have no doubt that many, if not most, of those active readers on CathInfo would benefit from same.

    Offline alaric

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    Re: Ban of Mark79
    « Reply #3 on: December 22, 2019, 07:57:17 AM »
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  • As for Mark and Matthew, I'm not getting in the middle of it. 

    I like Mark, he's got good stuff on here, but it's Matthew's house.

    I don't really know all the particulars of what's going on between them, but I hope they can settle it.


    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Ban of Mark79
    « Reply #4 on: December 22, 2019, 08:18:16 AM »
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  • I too liked Mark’s posts, although I didn’t agree with all of them. Did Matthew ban him without warning?
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?


    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Ban of Mark79
    « Reply #5 on: December 22, 2019, 08:22:01 AM »
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  • Why have you been silent, up until now, about rooting on Mark 79's posts towards Poche? Why don't you yourself and the others who support Mark 79 do the same thing as him? I suppose it's much easier to silently support a bully than it is to do be a bully yourself. Is that it?

    Mark 79 is right about a lot of things, but he can be mean and really ugly about it (towards Poche, in particular). Mark shows an extreme lack of charity. Just my opinion. Poche is really annoying, but he is always a gentleman about it. I just ignore Poche's posts, for the most part.
    If you really see Poche as a victim of bullying, why have you been silent up until now?  From that perspective, you just stood by and allowed the bullying.

    Personally, I do not think it makes any sense to frame the situation that way.  This is a trad forum and Poche is manifestly not a trad.  He is an unwelcome invader, not a victim.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Ban of Mark79
    « Reply #6 on: December 22, 2019, 08:25:38 AM »
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  • If you really see Poche as a victim of bullying, why have you been silent up until now?  From that perspective, you just stood by and allowed the bullying.

    Personally, I do not think it makes any sense to frame the situation that way.  This is a trad forum and Poche is manifestly not a trad.  He is an unwelcome invader, not a victim.

    I was not silent.

    You can pretend to agree with Mark 79's assessment of the evil of the Jєωs, but I know that you do not really agree with him. You are just pretending.

    You yourself are a bully. But then, you are Jєωιѕн, so you have an excuse. Mark 79 does not.

    This will be my last post to you Jayne, on this subject.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Ban of Mark79
    « Reply #7 on: December 22, 2019, 08:33:09 AM »
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  • Mark79 got banned??

    When/where did that happen?

    I don't see any announcement, so I guess it was announced within one of the already extant threads?

    Can someone direct me to it?
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Ban of Mark79
    « Reply #8 on: December 22, 2019, 08:35:04 AM »
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  • Mark79 got banned??

    When/where did that happen?

    I don't see any announcement, so I guess it was announced within one of the already extant threads?

    Can someone direct me to it?
    https://www.cathinfo.com/general-discussion/ham-radio-53876/msg680232/#msg680232
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Ban of Mark79
    « Reply #9 on: December 22, 2019, 08:45:24 AM »
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  • I was not silent.
    You can pretend to agree with Mark 79's assessment of the evil of the Jєωs, but I know that you do not really agree with him. You are just pretending.
    You yourself are a bully. But then, you are Jєωιѕн, so you have an excuse. Mark 79 does not.
    This will be my last post to you Jayne, on this subject.

    I am not Jєωιѕн.  To claim that I am is a denial of the power of baptism.  In Christ, there is neither Jєω not Gentile.  I am a Catholic and, as such, appreciate Mark79's clear writing on Jєωs and Judaism and their relationship with Christianity.  There is absolutely no basis for claiming that I am only pretending to agree with him.

    My ability to show how illogical your arguments are does not make me a bully.  I do not, in general, call you names or behave rudely toward you.  (I daresay, I have lost my temper a few times.)  I try to address the topic at hand without personal attacks in the vast majority of my posts, to you and to everyone.

    Mark does not need an excuse to write about Jєωs and Judaism.  It is a vitally important subject. We live in a time of massive confusion and error on this topic, much of it coming from the top levels of the putative Catholic Church.  Possibly the strongest Resistance argument is the weakening of SSPX teaching in this area.

    His ability to assemble all the information that he has is impressive.  His willingness to disseminate it, consider the risks involved, is heroic.  You should be ashamed of yourself for attacking him.

    Offline Bonaventure

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    Re: Ban of Mark79
    « Reply #10 on: December 22, 2019, 08:50:25 AM »
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  • ...at least afford Mark the opportunity to present his case. 

    Oh, Mark79 did present his case.  And it was quickly deleted; memory-holed, so to say.


    Offline Bonaventure

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    Re: Ban of Mark79
    « Reply #11 on: December 22, 2019, 08:54:55 AM »
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  • Offline Matthew

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    Re: Ban of Mark79
    « Reply #12 on: December 22, 2019, 08:57:55 AM »
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  • I agree with much of what JayneK said, and I'll admit it sounds tempting, but Mark79 has forced my hand.

    First of all, I didn't slam Mark a bunch after he was banned and couldn't respond. I gave the reasons for the ban (which are always going to be somewhat negative) but it was all stuff I told him to his face while he still had posting rights here. And I did acknowledge all his good points as well -- in the same breath as giving the reasons for his banning.

    On principle, I have to stick to my guns now, because Mark79 made it personal. He basically gave me an ultimatum "him or me". He wasn't respectful about it. He gave me no opportunity to save face as far as my authority goes.

    If I ban poche and invite Mark79 back, then Mark79 would win the power dispute in a very public manner. I can't have that. It would OPEN THE FLOODGATES for every other choleric and wannabe-moderator to start threads "We must ban _____" and there would be no end of it.

    As a matter of fact, I have no guarantee that Mark79 himself wouldn't find another target to obsess over and complain about. He would effectively become the moderator of the forum.

    Sorry, I can't have that. To avoid degenerating into a chaotic mess of politics and intrigue, CathInfo must remain a true monarchy, under MY control, under MY sole moderation. I am not going to cede control to a "good Catholic" like Mark79, a clique or group, or anyone else, only to take a new, lower position as president of a committee, or figurehead monarch. Mark wants to become Parliament, and relegate me to the figurehead position of the English monarchy. Sorry, but no thanks.

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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Ban of Mark79
    « Reply #13 on: December 22, 2019, 08:58:54 AM »
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  • Exactly. He gave me the above ultimatum (which I deleted, yes). Wouldn't you call that graphic an ultimatum?

    I have to defend my authority on the forum. I can't capitulate, no matter how smart, holy, or charismatic a user is. We've had several roosters and big personalities on CathInfo in the past, they've all come and gone. CathInfo must remain CathInfo.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Ban of Mark79
    « Reply #14 on: December 22, 2019, 09:01:29 AM »
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  • Matthew is right too.  Forums do not function well when members are unable to respect the decisions of the owner/moderator and repeatedly express their dissatisfaction.  Mark79 has, in effect, been spamming the forum with his (valid) complaints against Poche and it is disruptive of forum discussions.  We are seeing one thread after another derailed into a discussion of Poche.  It is necessary for Matthew to do something about this.  It is his responsibility to keep order (to the extent that it exists) on this forum.

    The problem is not that Mark79 is wrong about Poche, but that his response is analogous to vigilante justice.  We can understand Mark as "taking the law into his own hands".  For Matthew to ignore this would set a dangerous precedent.  

    This, and this.
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