Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => General Discussion => Topic started by: SoldierOfChrist on August 11, 2013, 12:01:56 AM
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What do the SSPX and resistance members think about going to an SSPV Mass out of necessity? I'm going to be in upstate New York in two weeks and the closest SSPX chapel is 2 hrs away, in the opposite direction from home. The closet TLM chapel is SSPV and is 19 minutes away in the right direction. I think we're going to attend, but what would other people do under these circuмstances?
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I think you should familiarize yourself with their rules involving to whom they will give Holy Communion. You may not qualify. Upon understanding how their group operates, you may not want to involve yourself, either.
Consider Fr. Joseph Collins' mass at St. Michael's in Glenmont, NY. He is former SSPX, and doesn't come with the issues of the SSPV.
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I think you should familiarize yourself with their rules involving to whom they will give Holy Communion. You may not qualify. Upon understanding how their group operates, you may not want to involve yourself, either.
Consider Fr. Joseph Collins' mass at St. Michael's in Glenmont, NY. He is former SSPX, and doesn't come with the issues of the SSPV.
That would be 44 minutes away. Should do. Thanks for that advice Mabel. I did see glenmont on the master list, but wasn't sure what to make of "independent". Why is he no longer associate with the society? Does he have a bishop?
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I think you should familiarize yourself with their rules involving to whom they will give Holy Communion. You may not qualify. Upon understanding how their group operates, you may not want to involve yourself, either.
Consider Fr. Joseph Collins' mass at St. Michael's in Glenmont, NY. He is former SSPX, and doesn't come with the issues of the SSPV.
That would be 44 minutes away. Should do. Thanks for that advice Mabel. I did see glenmont on the master list, but wasn't sure what to make of "independent". Why is he no longer associate with the society? Does he have a bishop?
He was one of the nine, ordained by +Lefebvre himself. He doesn't have issues with the Society other than the average disagreements and criticisms, he isn't hostile to any group or individual, for that matter. He's just a well educated, humble priest. His sermons are intellectual and profound. I know that he doesn't play games with giving people the sacraments. He doesn't affiliate himself with one bishop or another, as far as I know. The people who go to his chapel go to the bishop of their choice for confirmations. He does spend time with other priests, so he's not just flying solo. They have a small support network. Sometimes they help each other out with mass coverage.
In short, you aren't going to have any trouble with him. He tends to lay low and go about bringing the sacraments to Catholics. It's a pretty simple situation.
I hope this answers your questions :smile:
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I think you should familiarize yourself with their rules involving to whom they will give Holy Communion. You may not qualify. Upon understanding how their group operates, you may not want to involve yourself, either.
Consider Fr. Joseph Collins' mass at St. Michael's in Glenmont, NY. He is former SSPX, and doesn't come with the issues of the SSPV.
That would be 44 minutes away. Should do. Thanks for that advice Mabel. I did see glenmont on the master list, but wasn't sure what to make of "independent". Why is he no longer associate with the society? Does he have a bishop?
He was one of the nine, ordained by +Lefebvre himself. He doesn't have issues with the Society other than the average disagreements and criticisms, he isn't hostile to any group or individual, for that matter. He's just a well educated, humble priest. His sermons are intellectual and profound. I know that he doesn't play games with giving people the sacraments. He doesn't affiliate himself with one bishop or another, as far as I know. The people who go to his chapel go to the bishop of their choice for confirmations. He does spend time with other priests, so he's not just flying solo. They have a small support network. Sometimes they help each other out with mass coverage.
In short, you aren't going to have any trouble with him. He tends to lay low and go about bringing the sacraments to Catholics. It's a pretty simple situation.
I hope this answers your questions :smile:
Thanks for all of the info. I think I'll go to his Mass instead of the SSPV one.
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I think you should familiarize yourself with their rules involving to whom they will give Holy Communion. You may not qualify.
Can you expound on this, please Mabel.
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They want you to have lessons with their priest, be baptized by them, and only receive Communion there.
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They want you to have lessons with their priest, be baptized by them, and only receive Communion there.
Do you mean conditionally re-baptized by them?
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Assisting an Antiochian, Alexandrian or Byzantine Rite Mass celebrated by a priest in communion with the Seat of Peter is another option, if one is close to the area you will be visiting. They are every bit as Catholic as the Tridentine Latin Mass, unlike the the protestant novus ordo mass.
From what I know of SSPV, which is very little, they seem to be cult-like. I emailed them once about an inquiry, and their response gave me this impression, along with a little info I gathered from my limited research on them. Their Sacrament is certainly valid, but they will have issue with you receiving Communion if you are not SSPV. Considering their chapels are small, and everyone pretty much knows one another, or can recognize faces, they, and certainly the priest, will know you are from the "outside", therefore, the priest will probably deny you Communion.
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Assisting an Antiochian, Alexandrian or Byzantine Rite Mass celebrated by a priest in communion with the Seat of Peter is another option, if one is close to the area you will be visiting. They are every bit as Catholic as the Tridentine Latin Mass, unlike the the protestant novus ordo mass.
I actually largely agree with this, however I think precautions should be made in investigating the validity of the priests at the chapel you will be attending. I am unfamiliar with how 'inter-mixed' ordinations or consecrations of Eastern Rite priests and bishops are with the Latin Rite members. Perhaps Sigismund could answer this. I have been meaning to get to a Melkite Rite mass for quite a while; my Grandmother was Melkite, and I find the Byzantine accents of spirituality every bit as interesting and beautiful as the latin Rite. Hobbledehoy posted some great docuмents on here before, I hope he can upload them again.
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Assisting an Antiochian, Alexandrian or Byzantine Rite Mass celebrated by a priest in communion with the Seat of Peter is another option, if one is close to the area you will be visiting. They are every bit as Catholic as the Tridentine Latin Mass, unlike the the protestant novus ordo mass.
I actually largely agree with this, however I think precautions should be made in investigating the validity of the priests at the chapel you will be attending. I am unfamiliar with how 'inter-mixed' ordinations or consecrations of Eastern Rite priests and bishops are with the Latin Rite members. Perhaps Sigismund could answer this. I have been meaning to get to a Melkite Rite mass for quite a while; my Grandmother was Melkite, and I find the Byzantine accents of spirituality every bit as interesting and beautiful as the latin Rite. Hobbledehoy posted some great docuмents on here before, I hope he can upload them again.
As I understand it, the episcopacy and priesthood of the Eastern rites is in no way doubtful. That is to say, an Eastern rite priest ordained in the Eastern Rite by an Eastern Bishop who was consecrated in the Eastern Rite by another bishop consecrated in the Eastern rite (or Latin Rite before 1968) is undoubtedly a valid priest.
An Eastern priest who for some reason was ordained in the new Latin rite or ordained by a bishop consecrated in the new Latin rite would be a different story.
I have never attended a DL, though have been warned that many/some Eastern Parishes are liberal. Apparently there is no guarantee that you won't be walking into a more mystical Novus Ordo, so one does well to inquire about the parish to gauge it's loyalty to Catholicism.
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They want you to have lessons with their priest, be baptized by them, and only receive Communion there.
It depends on who you are as well. At least one of the priests is a little lenient on the rules for some.
If you've been to a Thuc line priest, believe that some or all of the Thuc line is valid, you may not go to Communion. Adults have to sign statements against them, I don't know if children are required. I think some of this is in their bulletin. Also, I know that it is an unwritten rule that one cannot go to mass at to an SSPX ordained priest who believes the Thuc line is valid. He cannot associate with them, either.
They also frown on friendships with people who go to "Thuc priests." Those that I know who go there are terrified of losing the sacraments and will do anything to keep them. Personally, I think it is a control issue. I don't hesitate to call them a cult.
By the way, Bishop Kelly has been noticeably absent and mysterious these days. No one that I know of has had direct interaction with him. That seems really odd.
Someone like me who goes to CMRI, according to the SSPV, is equal to a non-catholic, no sacraments and I can't be a sponsor for baptisms or confirmations.
I'm not so sure that people who go to SSPV where they are further away from CMRI or independent chapels know about this. Someone invited me to an SSPV retreat a few years ago and I had to explain to her why I couldn't go. I think she might have checked up with them as I never heard back from her again.
Anyways, I'm open to correction if I have misstated anything, but as far as I know this is all current and true.
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Assisting an Antiochian, Alexandrian or Byzantine Rite Mass celebrated by a priest in communion with the Seat of Peter is another option, if one is close to the area you will be visiting. They are every bit as Catholic as the Tridentine Latin Mass, unlike the the protestant novus ordo mass.
I actually largely agree with this, however I think precautions should be made in investigating the validity of the priests at the chapel you will be attending. I am unfamiliar with how 'inter-mixed' ordinations or consecrations of Eastern Rite priests and bishops are with the Latin Rite members. Perhaps Sigismund could answer this. I have been meaning to get to a Melkite Rite mass for quite a while; my Grandmother was Melkite, and I find the Byzantine accents of spirituality every bit as interesting and beautiful as the latin Rite. Hobbledehoy posted some great docuмents on here before, I hope he can upload them again.
As I understand it, the episcopacy and priesthood of the Eastern rites is in no way doubtful. That is to say, an Eastern rite priest ordained in the Eastern Rite by an Eastern Bishop who was consecrated in the Eastern Rite by another bishop consecrated in the Eastern rite (or Latin Rite before 1968) is undoubtedly a valid priest.
An Eastern priest who for some reason was ordained in the new Latin rite or ordained by a bishop consecrated in the new Latin rite would be a different story.
I have never attended a DL, though have been warned that many/some Eastern Parishes are liberal. Apparently there is no guarantee that you won't be walking into a more mystical Novus Ordo, so one does well to inquire about the parish to gauge it's loyalty to Catholicism.
I didn't even think of the Eastern Rite. It was late, I would have suggested that too. I've had trouble here with some of mine. When we've tried out new ones, we would always be prepared to leave. Some of the issues were Novus Ordo hymns, hand shaking, female readers, altar girls, playing around with the Filioque, bad, borderline heretical sermons, and one situation looked like they hacked the rite apart--honestly I have no clue what it was supposed to be.
That said, when I'm not in this area, the Eastern rites tend to be fine.
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I would also like to say something about Fr. Joseph Collins. I have the highest opinion of him. He loves the Catholic Faith, and lives his priesthood. He is very knowledgable and humble.
He studied at Econe in the 1970s and was ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre. He was one of the nine, but he is not affiliated with the SSPV. I know that he works with Fr. Daniel Ahern, another former SSPX priest.
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What is Fr. Collins position on Baptism of Desire, if I may ask ?
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What is Fr. Collins position on Baptism of Desire, if I may ask ?
He believes all that the Church teaches, and that includes Baptism of Desire.
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Most of what's written here is in line with my experience. SSPV tends to brand and copyright their members. There is a special animosity between SSPV and other members of the Nine, especially if they share territory and collection baskets.
Also, my brief experience with Father Collins would lead me to believe he is a kind and holy priest with a winning sense of humor and a strong work ethic. I don't believe you can go wrong, if you choose him.
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I would second that the SSPV has these cultish practices. While I have never been questioned by the priests about the sacraments, they, from the pulpit, say not to come to the sacraments if you go to Thuc-line priests or even priests that associate with Thuc-line priests, amongst other things.
As for Fr Collins, I do know him and he is very knowledgeable and a humble, holy priest who is doing what he can for the souls that God puts in his path. He knows many other priests and is friendly with the CMRI.
If you assist at his Mass, you will be in good hands.
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The SSPV is a holy group of priests. A great priestly society.
You can trust them.
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Assisting an Antiochian, Alexandrian or Byzantine Rite Mass celebrated by a priest in communion with the Seat of Peter is another option, if one is close to the area you will be visiting. They are every bit as Catholic as the Tridentine Latin Mass, unlike the the protestant novus ordo mass.
From what I know of SSPV, which is very little, they seem to be cult-like. I emailed them once about an inquiry, and their response gave me this impression, along with a little info I gathered from my limited research on them. Their Sacrament is certainly valid, but they will have issue with you receiving Communion if you are not SSPV. Considering their chapels are small, and everyone pretty much knows one another, or can recognize faces, they, and certainly the priest, will know you are from the "outside", therefore, the priest will probably deny you Communion.
This isn't so.
I attended an SSPV chapel and both me and my son received Holy Communion.
They are just being careful in this dangerous age with such widespread indifference. If you lived near an SSPV chapel it would be a true Godsend! A real spiritual treasure.
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I'm going to be in upstate New York in two weeks
What a fortunate opportunity for you!
On July 2nd, the Daughters of Mary had a ceremony in Round Top, NY - a few of their postulants were taking the veil and a ceremony was being held. I received an invite but I couldn't make it on such short notice and it is a 15 hour drive. However, I would be ecstatic if my job responsiblities took me near Round Top.
Of course, I feel very fondly toward the SSPV and the other trad groups.
Much of this "cultishness" is largely overblown by malcontents. The priests of the SSPV are a holy group of priests and you can trust their sacraments. I certainly do.
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Does anyone know what the official position of SSPV s is on "the pope", or the "Chair of Peter", with or without the pope, and who they do , or don t put in the "Una cuмn in the Canon of every Mass ?
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Does anyone know what the official position of SSPV s is on "the pope", or the "Chair of Peter", with or without the pope, and who they do , or don t put in the "Una cuмn in the Canon of every Mass ?
SSPV is made up of serious sedevacantists. That is why they left the SSPX. I don't know offhand what their Una cuм position is, but most sedevacantists (with some major notable exceptions) are anti-Una cuм, and criticize the SSPX for using it.