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Author Topic: Atila Guimaraes Was a Slave 35 years Ago, So What?  (Read 2950 times)

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Offline Last Tradhican

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Atila Guimaraes Was a Slave 35 years Ago, So What?
« on: June 27, 2019, 01:10:55 PM »
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    • Someone posted a docuмent that showed that Atila Guimaraes (AG) as a member of the TFP declared himself a religious slave to Dr. Plinio Correa de Oliveira 35 years ago . From what Incredulous and others have posted here, it is well docuмented that AG separated himself and TIA from the TFP over twenty years ago. Yet, two people here keep "warning" everyone that AG and TIA are "dangerous", and how so? The two persons say they are dangerous because "Atila Guimaraes (AG) as a member of the TFP declared himself a religious slave to Dr. Plinio Correa de Oliveira 35 years ago". That's it, that's all they keep parroting.

    In like the last 20 years Mr. Guimaraes has written more books and articles than any other traditionalist, all excellent totally orthodox. His website Traditioninaction.com is the foremost sight for learning the faith and understanding what is really going on in the Vatican II church. There is none that even comes close to publishing 1/10 of what they have published. And yet these two people tell us that AG and TIA are dangerous because of something they did 35 years ago?

    Lets' look at other Catholics who made mistakes in their early years, maybe we should reject them forever also?

    Paul of Tarsus  was a killer of Christians, we know him as St. Paul
    Mary Magdalene was a prostitute
    St. Augustine shacked up with a woman and had a bastard son
    Then there are all the womanizers, drunkards, bullies, soldiers who killed for sport...………. all who became saints.

    No, these two people who keep harping to something that Atila Guimaraes did 35 years ago, must have some other problem with him that they are not divulging. Meanwhile, Mr. Guimaraes continiues with his work, and I hope he does not give these two people one second of his valuable time, I certainly would not if I was in his position.

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    Offline Croixalist

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    Re: Atila Guimaraes Was a Slave 35 years Ago, So What?
    « Reply #1 on: June 27, 2019, 01:28:29 PM »
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    • They're dangerous because they have an agenda against the SSPX, beginning with Archbishop Lefebvre. Dangerous because they set up an organization which is not a religious order, yet demands spiritual obedience from its adherents.

    Snap out of it.
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Atila Guimaraes Was a Slave 35 years Ago, So What?
    « Reply #2 on: June 27, 2019, 02:34:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: Croixalist on June 27, 2019, 01:28:29 PM
    They're dangerous because they have an agenda against the SSPX, beginning with Archbishop Lefebvre. Dangerous because they set up an organization which is not a religious order, yet demands spiritual obedience from its adherents.
    TIA is a website, Atila Guimareas is an individual, I do not see them demanding any obedience from anyone. If they are dangerous "because they have an agenda against the SSPX", what exactly is this "agenda", how is it expressed?  I suppose to you Bp. Willamson, Cathinfo, the Resitance and all of the traditionalists outside of the SSPX also "are dangerous because they have an agenda against the SSPX". The SSPX has an agenda against Atila Guimareas and TIA, and MHFM, Feeneyites, sedevacntes, Bp. Williamson, the Resistance, Cathinfo and pretty much everyone but themselves…….. so what?
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    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Atila Guimaraes Was a Slave 35 years Ago, So What?
    « Reply #3 on: June 27, 2019, 02:44:30 PM »
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    • Here is an excerpt of today's article in the Tradtioninaction.com website, they publish articles like this everyday, 365 days a year one can stay informed of what is really going on in the Vatican II church. The SSPX by comparison publishes nothing, nothing. Am I supposed to dismiss them altogether because the SSPX says they are dangerous? Sounds to me like the SSPX is a cult.

    https://traditioninaction.org/religious/m053_Waiting.htm


     
    ‘Let’s Not Wait for the Theologians’

    Marian T. Horvat, Ph.D.


    Francis never stops, my friend Jan and I agreed. We weren’t talking about his constant travels, but rather his ceaseless attacks against anything with the least scent of Catholicism. During on-plane interviews to and from his multiple destinations, this Pope has become famous for spouting forth particularly offensive nonsense conflicting with Catholic teaching.

     On the plane returning to Rome from Romania (June 3, 2019), Pope Francis made another blast against tradition regarding the role of theology in ecuмenical relations.


    Patriarch Daniel refuses to pray publicly with Francis and says the Our Father in Romanian
    [color][size][font]
    Ecuмenical relations with the Romanian Greek-Schismatics, who make up about 86% of the country’s population, were the central focus of the Pope’s visit. After addressing the country’s political leaders upon landing mid-morning May 31, Francis met patriarch Daniel at schismatic headquarters.

     The two later traveled together to Bucharest’s massive new schismatic cathedral. They then took part in a prayer service in which they both recited the Our Father separately: Francis in Latin, followed by Daniel in Romanian.

     Now, of course, this wasn’t what Francis wanted: He wanted to pray together with the schismatic leader. But the stubborn heretic refused – let us not forget that the Greek-Schismatics are also heretics – holding with the correct pre-Vatican II argument that theological agreement was needed before “Christian unity” or praying together could be possible.

     How expressive it is that the head of the Schismatic Church showed himself to be more consistent to its false faith than is the Pope to the Catholic Faith. It shows that schismatics and heretics are not as deeply buried in error as apostate progressivists.[/font][/size][/color]
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Atila Guimaraes Was a Slave 35 years Ago, So What?
    « Reply #4 on: June 27, 2019, 02:54:12 PM »
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    • Quote from: Croixalist on June 27, 2019, 01:28:29 PM
    They're dangerous because they have an agenda against the SSPX, beginning with Archbishop Lefebvre. Dangerous because they set up an organization which is not a religious order, yet demands spiritual obedience from its adherents.

    Snap out of it.
    :applause:
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    Offline Mega-fin

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    Re: Atila Guimaraes Was a Slave 35 years Ago, So What?
    « Reply #5 on: June 27, 2019, 02:59:26 PM »
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    • He also published an article on his website basically calling Archbishop Lefebvre with no real evidence to prove it and even twisted facts to try to make a case for it. 

    So yeah, I wouldn’t absolve him and say his website does the most for the traditional movement even though he publishes a lot. 

    And we also have a problem with the SSPX today because of how they’ve betrayed their founder. 
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    Please disregard everything I have said; I have tended to speak before fact checking.

    Offline Croixalist

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    Re: Atila Guimaraes Was a Slave 35 years Ago, So What?
    « Reply #6 on: June 27, 2019, 02:59:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on June 27, 2019, 02:34:50 PM
    TIA is a website, Atila Guimareas is an individual, I do not see them demanding any obedience from anyone. If they are dangerous "because they have an agenda against the SSPX", what exactly is this "agenda", how is it expressed?  I suppose to you Bp. Willamson, Cathinfo, the Resitance and all of the traditionalists outside of the SSPX also "are dangerous because they have an agenda against the SSPX". The SSPX has an agenda against Atila Guimareas and TIA, and MHFM, Feeneyites, sedevacntes, Bp. Williamson, the Resistance, Cathinfo and pretty much everyone but themselves…….. so what?

    If you have been paying attention to TIA's series of trash articles as of late, you would notice the strange attachment TIA has for the TFP. On paper the two ought to be farther apart than say TIA/Resistance-SSPX. By Atila's own words he has defended the practice of members calling themselves slaves of Plinio. Now what could possibly have led him to permit his organization to attack Archbishop Lefebvre's reputation with the most unreliable eyewitness testimony possible? The old TFP represents the foundations of the TIA as evidenced by Atila himself, and he would rather defend the current TFP rather than the SSPX, pre-2012 or post.

    The urge to jump on board completely with anyone willing to criticize the SSPX in this case has turned out to be an exercise in self-contradiction if you harbor any sympathy for the Resistance.


    Quote
    Here is an excerpt of today's article in the Tradtioninaction.com website, they publish articles like this everyday, 365 days a year one can stay informed of what is really going on in the Vatican II church. The SSPX by comparison publishes nothing, nothing. Am I supposed to dismiss them altogether because the SSPX says they are dangerous? Sounds to me like the SSPX is a cult.


    The SSPX isn't a news outlet, it is there to provide the sacraments. TIA can fall all over itself reporting 24/7 about the demonic rot of VII church, but it can never confer supernatural grace. Big difference
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: Atila Guimaraes Was a Slave 35 years Ago, So What?
    « Reply #7 on: June 27, 2019, 03:00:01 PM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on June 27, 2019, 01:10:55 PM
    Someone posted a docuмent that showed that Atila Guimaraes (AG) as a member of the TFP declared himself a religious slave to Dr. Plinio Correa de Oliveira 35 years ago .
    If a person had truly separated himself or herself from a personality cult which worshiped Plinio, that person would no longer engage in worshiping Plinio.
    Atila's TIA website has 839 articles by or about their great cult leader Plinio. At TIA events, a photo of their cult leader is prominently displayed.
    These do not sound like the acts of a person who has left a personality cult which Bishop Mayer called "anti-Catholic, anti-clerical and heretical."
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Atila Guimaraes Was a Slave 35 years Ago, So What?
    « Reply #8 on: June 27, 2019, 05:23:52 PM »
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    • Quote from: Croixalist on June 27, 2019, 02:59:50 PM
    The SSPX isn't a news outlet, it is there to provide the sacraments. TIA can fall all over itself reporting 24/7 about the demonic rot of VII church, but it can never confer supernatural grace. Big difference
    Oh. I see, the SSPX is just there to confer sacraments, I didn't know that.
    I guess Athanasius was stepping out of place when he wrote all those treatises against the Arians.  

    Seriously, I expect the SSPX to teach 24/7 what TIA teaches (how young girls should dress, and behave with men, how to live a Catholic life in this real world, stories about the daily saints, as well as the "24/7 about the demonic rot of VII church".) as well as provide the sacraments. They are not doing anything of what TIA is doing. It reflects in the youth that has gone to their schools in the last ten years, they are not traditionalists like their parents. The traditionalists of the future, those like the ones that came out in the 1960 -1980's, will not be coming from the SSPX, because they have not taught the youths anything but, "ask father".  
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Atila Guimaraes Was a Slave 35 years Ago, So What?
    « Reply #9 on: June 27, 2019, 05:27:51 PM »
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    • Quote from: Cera on June 27, 2019, 03:00:01 PM
    If a person had truly separated himself or herself from a personality cult which worshiped Plinio, that person would no longer engage in worshiping Plinio.
    Atila's TIA website has 839 articles by or about their great cult leader Plinio. At TIA events, a photo of their cult leader is prominently displayed.
    These do not sound like the acts of a person who has left a personality cult which Bishop Mayer called "anti-Catholic, anti-clerical and heretical."
    Why would anyone trash all of those tremendous writings by Dr. Plinio, one would have to be insane to do such a thing. There is not one anti-Catholic , anti-clerical or heretical in all of the articles TAI has published from Plinio. It is becoming more and more obvious that you have an irrational emotional hangup with Atila and TIA, perhaps you were duped into joining the TFP?
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Atila Guimaraes Was a Slave 35 years Ago, So What?
    « Reply #10 on: June 27, 2019, 05:41:47 PM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on June 27, 2019, 05:27:51 PM
    Why would anyone trash all of those tremendous writings by Dr. Plinio, one would have to be insane to do such a thing. There is not one anti-Catholic , anti-clerical or heretical in all of the articles TAI has published from Plinio. It is becoming more and more obvious that you have an irrational emotional hangup with Atila and TIA, perhaps you were duped into joining the TFP?

    Wasn't it Plinio himself who said that he was the most beloved by God, after the BVM? And don't his followers believe that he was assumed into Heaven? Do you yourself believe these things?
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Atila Guimaraes Was a Slave 35 years Ago, So What?
    « Reply #11 on: June 27, 2019, 05:47:30 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on June 27, 2019, 05:41:47 PM
    Wasn't it Plinio himself who said that he was the most beloved by God, after the BVM? And don't his followers believe that he ascended into Heaven? Do you yourself believe these things?
    Where are those articles in the TIA website? ALL the articles by Plinio in TIA are excellent and totally Catholic. I go to an SSPX chapel, but that does not mean that I am lockstep with them in EVERYTHING they teach. Maybe that is your style but not mine.  
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Atila Guimaraes Was a Slave 35 years Ago, So What?
    « Reply #12 on: June 27, 2019, 05:51:51 PM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on June 27, 2019, 05:47:30 PM
    Where are those articles in the TIA website? ALL the articles by Plinio in TIA are excellent and totally Catholic. I go to an SSPX chapel, but that does not mean that I am lockstep with them in EVERYTHING they teach. Maybe that is your style but not mine.  

    So you don't believe that Plinio was assumed into Heaven, or that he was the most beloved by God, after the BVM?
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    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline St Ignatius

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    Re: Atila Guimaraes Was a Slave 35 years Ago, So What?
    « Reply #13 on: June 27, 2019, 10:33:33 PM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on June 27, 2019, 01:10:55 PM
    In like the last 20 years Mr. Guimaraes has written more books and articles than any other traditionalist, all excellent totally orthodox.

    "All"?  I might have agreed with you 25 years ago until Atila published his book War, Just War. What a filthy rag that was in support of the Neo-Cons! I  haven't given any attention to Atila since then... but now with all the buz here on CI lately,  I'm now really questioning the integrity of Mr Guimaraes.
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Atila Guimaraes Was a Slave 35 years Ago, So What?
    « Reply #14 on: June 27, 2019, 11:07:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: Croixalist on June 27, 2019, 02:59:50 PM
    Croix said:

    The SSPX isn't a news outlet, it is there to provide the sacraments. TIA can fall all over itself reporting 24/7 about the demonic rot of VII church, but it can never confer supernatural grace. Big difference

    You're so wrong on this point Croix.

    The SSPX is a big propaganda machine, with many fake-news outlets... Angelus Press, DICI, Dutch Branding and now Catholic Family News.

    CFN is a most interesting case. It's very obvious since 2012, the newspaper turned a 180 degrees to support the Society.
    Father Gruner owned it and controlled the editorship of CFN. After his death, it's obviously under the SSPX.

    But unlike the editorials before Fr. Gruner's death, CFN now rewrites trad history.

    Some CFN article examples:

    The black princess Pallavacini who made the SSPX the "controlled opposition",
    The Armenian Genocide of the Jєωs (it was the Jєωs who engineered the Armenian genocide!).
    Pope Pius XII's saving of "the refugees" which CFN intentionally failed to mention, were mostly Jєωs needing fake passports.
    And most recently, the promotion of NFP in the May 2019 issue.

    You'll never see an SSPX logo on a CFN editorial, but we know it's them.
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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi
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