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Author Topic: At a recent wedding  (Read 1586 times)

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Offline Telesphorus

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At a recent wedding
« on: May 30, 2011, 05:59:35 PM »
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  • Three things to remember to keep you out of trouble:

    "Yes, dear"
    "I know"
    "I'm sorry"

    I couldn't help shaking my head.

    But I do wonder, how did we get to the point where humoring women and submitting to them became so deeply ingrained in the American psyche?


    Offline Oremus

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    At a recent wedding
    « Reply #1 on: May 30, 2011, 06:06:00 PM »
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  • That's an excellent question. The roles have reversed and I don't know why.


    Offline Telesphorus

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    At a recent wedding
    « Reply #2 on: May 30, 2011, 07:12:34 PM »
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  • Quote from: Oremus
    That's an excellent question. The roles have reversed and I don't know why.


    I remember in elementary school, maybe third or fourth grade, the music teacher asked for a show of hands, whether their mom was in charge or their dad was in charge.  I can't recall who had the majority, but I think it was the girls.  When I protested that the husband is supposed to be in charge the teacher contradicted me rather strongly.  Typical NO school.

    That was in the mid 80s

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    At a recent wedding
    « Reply #3 on: May 30, 2011, 09:28:46 PM »
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  • The husband is supposed to be in charge. Although, the woman does indeed play an important role. In fact, mothers are very close to God.

    And although the husband is supposed to be in chagre, the man should obviously be kind to the woman. My opinion is that women should be treated with respect. I'm not saying a man should "submit" to the woman, just treat her with kindness and love. The average husband in the modern world treats his wife horribly. He cheats on her, lies to her, and does what he wants when he wants. That isn't the way it's supposed to be. Both the man and woman have their own role in marriage that they can't disregard.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    At a recent wedding
    « Reply #4 on: May 30, 2011, 10:50:41 PM »
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  • Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    The average husband in the modern world treats his wife horribly.


    Do you really think the average husband behaves with less fidelity than the average wife?  

    In any case, at a wedding, we assume that both husband and wife have the best of intentions.  And yet,  the advice that is heard is that the man should be submissive.

    The question is, how did we get to this point where this idea is considered normal?


    Offline Telesphorus

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    At a recent wedding
    « Reply #5 on: May 30, 2011, 10:56:34 PM »
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  • It does perplex me why in the western world there's such an angry reaction, even from trads, when this sort of thing is brought up.

    The father of the bride, at this wedding, said that his daughter was perfect.  Perfect.

    Maybe these sorts of expressions start to give us insight into the problem . . .

    Offline MaterDominici

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    At a recent wedding
    « Reply #6 on: May 31, 2011, 02:03:17 AM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Three things to remember to keep you out of trouble:

    "Yes, dear"
    "I know"
    "I'm sorry"

    I couldn't help shaking my head.

    But I do wonder, how did we get to the point where humoring women and submitting to them became so deeply ingrained in the American psyche?


    For the sake of discussion, what would be your thoughts if the same were said of the wife? ...of both?

    I don't quite see how "I know" fits with the other two.
    The phrase "keep you out of trouble" is more offensive than the phrases which follow.
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson

    Offline Telesphorus

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    At a recent wedding
    « Reply #7 on: May 31, 2011, 03:10:39 AM »
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  • Quote from: MaterDominici
    For the sake of discussion, what would be your thoughts if the same were said of the wife? ...of both?


    The idea is very simple.  The man is supposed to placate the wife and agree with her, and apologize for anything she dislikes.  People wouldn't even understand what was being discussed if it were presented the other way.  If someone at a wedding gave advice to a wife like that people wouldn't not understand what was being said or would be offended.

    Quote
    I don't quite see how "I know" fits with the other two.


    It might have been "you're right"


    Offline TKGS

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    At a recent wedding
    « Reply #8 on: May 31, 2011, 07:00:59 AM »
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  • None of this is really new in popular culture.  If you watch the old comedy movies you find this same sentiment is frequently displayed in the "hen-pecked" husband.  I remember an old movie (though I don't remember which one) in which a wife explains how it works.  She is telling another woman (who is preparing to get married) that men get to make the important decisions, like whether we go to war with China.  Women get to make all the unimportant decisions and then goes on to list a few major family issues.  The bottom line was that men deal with international politics and women control the home.

    The same was true in the 1960s television shows as well.  There's an old Hogan's Heros episode in which the general's wife brings his sister to see Col. Klink.  She is an overbearing battle-axe.  But, in this episode, she brings her fiance and Klink is relieved.  The man hardly speaks because she says something and then asks (and answers), "Right?....Right!!"  The fiance meekly smiles weakly and nods his head.

    Even now, we hear such as what was said at the wedding.  And even now it is still thought to be a light-hearted stab at humor.

    What is different today (and I think began in the 1980s) is that many people are taking this traditionally humorous gag seriously.  The idea was popularized, I think, by crude comedians who attributed all power to women because they control intimate relations between the sexes and men are absolutely overpowered with one, and only one, instinct.  I think this is sufficiently clear for this forum.  (And, yes, I was one who thought this kind of humor was great back then--but I was mostly pagan in those days of which I have long repented and will probably spend to the Last Day in purgatory.)  I've seen commercials for those half-hour television comedies (which no longer seem funny to me) and it appears that this is largely the same sentiment today, except that what used to be meant for "adult" audiences only is now considered family fare.

    I would guess that at the wedding, these comments were followed by some slight nervous chuckles as many men anxiously glanced at their wives to see if they had permission to laugh.  The best man was trying to lighten to mood.  But it is also clear in the way it was reported here, that many people took this to be a serious commentary of the relationship between husband and wife.

    The problem today is that many people seem to think that if a husband doesn't give in to everything a wife wants he's being overbearing and controlling.  What used to be almost gallows humor has become popular culture's reality.

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    At a recent wedding
    « Reply #9 on: May 31, 2011, 09:31:07 AM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    The average husband in the modern world treats his wife horribly.


    Do you really think the average husband behaves with less fidelity than the average wife?  

    In any case, at a wedding, we assume that both husband and wife have the best of intentions.  And yet,  the advice that is heard is that the man should be submissive.

    The question is, how did we get to this point where this idea is considered normal?


    Both the man and woman can be dis-respectful towards one another in many marriages these days, I'm just saying that in the modern world the man is more likely to cheat or be dis-respectful to his wife. The woman can cheat too, but most of the affairs you see are a result of the man.

    I don't think the man should be submissive. I think TKGS said it nicely. Nowadays if the man says no to anything the woman says he gets painted as controlling. Of course, I've seen alot of men who really are controlling in marriages. The man must be generous but head of the house none-the-less.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.

    Offline clare

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    At a recent wedding
    « Reply #10 on: May 31, 2011, 10:37:43 AM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Three things to remember to keep you out of trouble:

    "Yes, dear"
    "I know"
    "I'm sorry"

    I couldn't help shaking my head.


    Tele,

    If I may say so, I do think you need to lighten up a bit!


    Offline sedetrad

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    At a recent wedding
    « Reply #11 on: May 31, 2011, 11:30:15 AM »
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  • Actually according the statistics, the spousal cheating rates in the United states are now EQUAL.

    Andy

    Offline sedetrad

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    At a recent wedding
    « Reply #12 on: May 31, 2011, 11:30:52 AM »
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  • I am not sure what the rates are outside the US.

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    At a recent wedding
    « Reply #13 on: May 31, 2011, 03:11:32 PM »
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  • Quote from: sedetrad
    Actually according the statistics, the spousal cheating rates in the United states are now EQUAL.

    Andy


    Ah, ok. Thanks for the info. And nice to see you again, sedetrad. :)
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.