Author Topic: are saints above law? (Read 716 times)

spouse of Jesus · « **on:** March 08, 2009, 01:21:10 PM »

in my ex-faith saints where above law.they could do what was forbidden to others.like having 9 wives when an ordinary man couldn't have more than four.
I was overenjoyed thinking that catholicism has ONE LAW for all.it is bad if I lie.it is bad if a king lies.it is bad if Pope lies.
but you know that it is forbidden for us to ask for visions and apparitions.it is a sin of pride.
then you see that it was not sinful for Lucy of Narny (who asked God to let her carry Child Jesus in her arms)to do so.or for St.Ite who asked for the grace of nursing child Jesus at her breast,both of whom where given what they wanted.
I am not criticizing divine providence.I am speaking about the action of asking for a vision in itself.
I love my new religion unconditionaly.but I wish it didn't share the issue of Saints as being above law with Islam!

MaterDominici · « **Reply #1 on:** March 08, 2009, 10:33:32 PM »

I don't know enough about the saints you mentioned, but is it possibly that the difference is in the details?

For the sake of example, perhaps these saints were already receiving visions (proving that they were in favor with God) and therefore asked for a specific sort of vision. It would be less prideful to ask for a specific sort of vision if you were already receiving other visions from Our Lord.

I would have to know more about these two saints to know if the example had any merit...

roscoe · « **Reply #2 on:** March 09, 2009, 04:36:03 PM »

Islam has saints? Someone is going to have to show me evidence that the Cath Church teaches saints are above Canon Law.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #3 on:** March 09, 2009, 06:42:54 PM »

Yes, my retirement was short-lived. My reasons for leaving, and coming back? Well, it is not important.

No, NO ONE is ABOVE the law, although certain points of the law may be set aside, at times, if they are an obstacle to the overall end/purpose of the law: the salvation of souls.

Islamism has NO saints, as their belief system if erroneous in the extreme. Holiness cannot exist where falsehood reigns. We should pray that Moslems are brought out of their darkness into the light of the One, True Faith of Jesus Christ; otherwise, they shall perish eternally.

Matthew · « **Reply #4 on:** March 09, 2009, 09:18:54 PM »

It's true that sometimes a saint is inspired to do something that would normally be imprudent (such as living at the top of a pole, like St. Simon Stylites).

Or when Samson pushed over 2 foundation pillars in the Phillistine hall, killing hundreds of Phillistines as well as himself.

Normally that would not be licit for a Catholic, but God had his reasons that those events should occur as they occurred. There are some things that are mysterious, and we must humble ourselves before the mystery. God will explain to us whatever is for our good. Some mysteries are beyond our understanding.

Such things are an exercise in humility for us -- who would like to know and understand EVERYTHING. As they say, "Too bad."

Matthew

spouse of Jesus · « **Reply #5 on:** March 09, 2009, 10:41:21 PM »

by saints I didn't mean that they are holy.
I meant those who are considered to be saints by moslems.
just as when we say "roman gods",and we don't mean that they are divine,but that they were worshipped by some.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #6 on:** March 10, 2009, 07:30:42 AM »

Quote from: ChantCd

Or when Samson pushed over 2 foundation pillars in the Phillistine hall, killing hundreds of Phillistines as well as himself.

As God is the Supreme Lawgiver and the Author of Life, He may instruct us to do such things while acting within His rights, which are supreme. Even He, however, could not, for example, command someone to do something that is contrary to reason or fundamentally opposed to our nature. He gives life, He takes life, whether it is like with Samson or in the normal flow of events. It is ALWAYS God that takes life, just as He is always the giver thereof.

Indeed, there is much that is beyond our vision or understanding, and to seek it out with an inordinate desire will only lead to trouble. God speed.

spouse of Jesus · « **Reply #7 on:** March 10, 2009, 08:10:13 AM »

But when a Saint does something like this,he must be aware of the fact that this action is normally forbidden,and this means that he knows that he is special and is not like others.
so you mean that this statements:"no saint is aware of his sanctity" or "every saint thinks he is somebody like others" are false?

I am sorry if I am troublesome.I just want to get rid of old false beleifs!

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #8 on:** March 10, 2009, 10:45:18 AM »

Quote from: spouse of Jesus

"no saint is aware of his sanctity"

The Saint knows that, of his own, he has no sanctity; only God does.

Drop such considerations and focus on the basics of the Faith. There ARE reasonable answers to ALL such questions, but knowing them at this stage will not do you much good. Supernatural faith is ABOVE reason, but NEVER contradicts it. That said, many seek to understand matters of faith BEFORE they give consent. This is backwards, as doing such renders their "faith" merely human, not supernatural. We believe because God is the One revealing; not because we have searched and searched, and found that we understand what He proposes. Understanding of revealed truths comes in time, yes, but is NOT the doorway to supernatural faith.