Author Topic: Are all Christians Catholic? (Read 780 times)

Cato · « **on:** August 18, 2013, 07:31:16 PM »

I always think back to the story of the Italian Jєω who was baptized by his maid as he was a sick baby. The church rescued him from his family and brought him up as a Catholic. His family and others tried to reunite him with his family but the church fought the reunion until he was grown.

Now when he was baptized, he was baptized a Christian. I think we all are baptized into the Christian church, not into the Catholic church. It seems like ideas of ecuмenism and religious equality in today's modern world have removed Rome's claim on Christian's souls.

So I ask, do all Christians owe allegiance to Rome? And conversely, does Rome have a responsibility toward all Christians? Are all Christians Catholic?

Anthony Benedict · « **Reply #1 on:** August 18, 2013, 07:44:29 PM »

Let's back up the bus a minute, shall we?

The Church "rescued" him FROM HIS FAMILY?

(They didn't WANT him because he was sick? If they had enough shekels to hire a maid they were not likely to be in desperate straits, right?)

For Greater Glory · « **Reply #2 on:** August 18, 2013, 07:46:50 PM »

Christian is my name, and Catholic, my surname. Pope Benedict XV
Only Catholics are Christians. The Popes always referred to protestants as individuals in a sect.

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #3 on:** August 18, 2013, 07:49:40 PM »

When a person is Baptized, He/She becomes a member of the Body of Christ. The Body of Christ is headed by Jesus Christ and we are His branches (John 15:5). This model is exactly what the Catholic Church is. Catholic meaning "universal" or in other words...all of mankind. And "Church" being the vine (Jesus Christ) along with its branches (baptized individuals). So basically, every individual who receives some form of Baptism is a member of the Catholic Church (the Body of Christ). This is to include protestants (who receive a Baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) and members of the other faiths who have received the Implied Baptism of Desire. If a person receives a Baptism that is not of water then they do not get the Gifts of the Holy Spirit (But I could be wrong). I think the Baptism of Water and Blood are the only Baptisms that wash away our sins. As far as the rest of your question goes, I'm not really sure. I don't believe that the Church in Rome has a whole lot of say over the lives of the people who are apart of the Body of Christ. Its authority is mostly over doctrine and the ordained. I don't really think the Church forces anyone to do anything like fight for Rome in case of war or something like that. But if Rome were under siege then I would be there fighting for it because I would want to. So yes, all Christians are Catholics its just not all Christians are in full communion with the Church. Other than that, Rome's responsibility is to bring people closer to God, but if they reject that then there is very little that Rome will do.

For Greater Glory · « **Reply #4 on:** August 18, 2013, 08:49:32 PM »

InfiniteFaith said:
So basically, every individual who receives some form of baptism is a member of the Catholic Church(the body of Christ).

A protestant baby who is baptized correctly is Catholic, until he or she reaches the age of reason and accepts heresy that they are taught. These are the only ones who might be Catholic.
If they died, they would go to heaven. Everybody else is NOT a Christian and protestantism is a heresy. Protestants are members of a sect. The popes have already spoken on this.

InfiniteFaith · « **Reply #5 on:** August 18, 2013, 08:56:38 PM »

Quote from: For Greater Glory

InfiniteFaith said:
So basically, every individual who receives some form of baptism is a member of the Catholic Church(the body of Christ).

A protestant baby who is baptized correctly is Catholic, until he or she reaches the age of reason and accepts heresy that they are taught. These are the only ones who might be Catholic.
If they died, they would go to heaven. Everybody else is NOT a Christian and protestantism is a heresy. Protestants are members of a sect. The popes have already spoken on this.

What if they were unaware of their heresy as an adult? Or what if they did not meet the requirements of mortal sin?

Kephapaulos · « **Reply #6 on:** August 18, 2013, 10:38:04 PM »

Answer to the question of the thread:

Strictly speaking, yes.

Cato · « **Reply #7 on:** August 18, 2013, 10:43:04 PM »

Quote from: For Greater Glory

InfiniteFaith said:
So basically, every individual who receives some form of baptism is a member of the Catholic Church(the body of Christ).

A protestant baby who is baptized correctly is Catholic, until he or she reaches the age of reason and accepts heresy that they are taught. These are the only ones who might be Catholic.
If they died, they would go to heaven. Everybody else is NOT a Christian and protestantism is a heresy. Protestants are members of a sect. The popes have already spoken on this.

Wouldn't they ALWAYS be Catholic; albeit a heretic?

Everything you say makes sense. It's telling that the Church would never speak it's centuries long teaching today. It's so un PC.

Cato · « **Reply #8 on:** August 18, 2013, 10:44:49 PM »

Quote from: Anthony Benedict

Let's back up the bus a minute, shall we?

The Church "rescued" him FROM HIS FAMILY?

(They didn't WANT him because he was sick? If they had enough shekels to hire a maid they were not likely to be in desperate straits, right?)

Of course the Jєωιѕн family was well off financially. The Church saved the child's everlasting soul from Judaism.

For Greater Glory · « **Reply #9 on:** August 18, 2013, 11:38:04 PM »

InfiniteFaith said:
What if they were unaware of their heresy as an adult? Or what if they did not meet the requirements of mortal sin?

Sorry to be so long in getting back to you, duties in the house.
We were discussing some of this with the visiting priest after Mass, today.
In answer to first question, if they are unaware of the heresy, their culpability is lessened. But just as in the case of invincible ignorance, where the sin won't be imputed to one, who didn't know of the Catholic Church, it is not a means of salvation, either. I really recommend reading Archbishop Hay's writings on all of this, http://franciscan-archive.org/apologetica/extra.html. He covers everything and goes into great detail, using scriptures, explaining that God wants everyone to be saved and "requires of all men to be united to the Church by true Faith, as a condition of salvation, and, therefore, daily 'adds to the Church such as shall be saved,' "(Lk. ii.47) He goes into explanation of the two conditions why one may be outside the Church. Sin is one and I forget the other.

I also recommend Fr. Paul Trinchard's book "All About Salvation." Father used to tell us to quit playing God. Don't be a God of hate and don't be a liberal God.

Another good source is Fr. Michael Mueller writings. Also, Mgsr. Fenton.
Last but certainly not least, read the writings from the councils and the popes through the centuries. Can't go wrong with that!

http://traditioninaction.org/religious/n059rp_NoSalvation.htm