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Offline Alex

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Archeologists find oldest Catholic church
« on: November 10, 2011, 08:22:16 PM »
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  • Archeologists find oldest Catholic church

    Amman, June 9, 2008 (DPA) Archaeologists in Jordan have discovered what they claimed to be the ‘oldest Catholic church in world’ at Rihab, 40 km north-east of Amman, the Jordan Times reported Monday.

    ‘We have uncovered what we believe to be the oldest Catholic church in the world, dating from 33AD to 70AD,’ Abdul Qader Hassan, head of the Rihab Centre for Archaeological Studies told the paper.

    The discovery lying underneath Saint Georgeous Church in Rihab is ‘amazing, because we have evidence to believe this church sheltered the early Christians, the 70 disciples of Jesus Christ’, he said.

    The early Christians, described in the mosaic inscription on the floor of St Georgeous as ‘the 70 beloved by God and Divine,’ are said to have fled from Jerusalem during the persecution of Christians to the northern part of Jordan, particularly to Rihab, he added.

    Citing historical sources, Hassan said the 70 lived and practised their rituals in secrecy in this underground church.

    ‘We believe that they did not leave the cave and lived until the Christian religion was embraced by Roman rulers,’ he added. ‘It was then St Georgeous Church was built,’ he said.

    The findings in the graveyard near the cave offer valuable clues, according to the Jordanian archaeological expert.

    ‘We found pottery items that date back from the 3rd to 7th century. The findings show that the first Christians and their offspring continued living in the area until the late Roman rule,’ he said.

    ‘Going down a few steps into the cave, one would see a circle shape area, believed to be the apse, and several stone seats for the ecclesiastics,’ he added.

    Archimandrite Nektarious, Bishop Deputy of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese, described the discovery of the cave as an ‘important milestone for Christians all around the world’.

    ‘The only other cave in the world similar in shape and purpose is in Thessalonica, Greece,’ Jordan Times quoted the bishop as saying.

    Officials at the Jordanian Ministry of Tourism said they planned to capitalise on the discovery to further promote the area to become a major tourist attraction in the near future.


    Offline MiserereMeiDeus

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    Archeologists find oldest Catholic church
    « Reply #1 on: November 11, 2011, 10:44:45 AM »
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  • The "Little Church of Wattles" (dedicated to Our Lady) in Glastonbury, England is believed to date from very shortly after the Crucifixion. Eventually Glastonbury Abbey sprang up around it. It may predate this Jordanian find.
    "Let us thank God for having called us to His holy faith. It is a great gift, and the number of those who thank God for it is small."
    -- St. Alphonsus de Liguori


    Offline Elizabeth

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    Archeologists find oldest Catholic church
    « Reply #2 on: November 11, 2011, 04:55:35 PM »
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  • I love this type of thing!

    (of corse I was devastated by the Glastonbury Thorn incident of the past year).

    Offline MiserereMeiDeus

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    Archeologists find oldest Catholic church
    « Reply #3 on: November 11, 2011, 06:16:58 PM »
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  • Quote from: Elizabeth
    I love this type of thing!

    (of corse I was devastated by the Glastonbury Thorn incident of the past year).


    So was I. Have you heard if they're replanted a scion on Wirral Hill, or if the stump has sprouted new growth?
    "Let us thank God for having called us to His holy faith. It is a great gift, and the number of those who thank God for it is small."
    -- St. Alphonsus de Liguori

    Offline s2srea

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    Archeologists find oldest Catholic church
    « Reply #4 on: November 11, 2011, 07:16:26 PM »
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  • Quote from: MiserereMeiDeus
    The "Little Church of Wattles" (dedicated to Our Lady) in Glastonbury, England is believed to date from very shortly after the Crucifixion. Eventually Glastonbury Abbey sprang up around it. It may predate this Jordanian find.


    But its hard to believe that the English church would be that close to dating near this church when we think about the logics of distance from Jerusalem and the time it would have taken for an apostle to get out there- of course I may be wrong, but I would have to read more about both in detail. What do you think?


    Offline Alex

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    Archeologists find oldest Catholic church
    « Reply #5 on: November 11, 2011, 07:39:53 PM »
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  • That's what I was thinking too.

    Offline MiserereMeiDeus

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    Archeologists find oldest Catholic church
    « Reply #6 on: November 11, 2011, 07:50:47 PM »
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  • Quote from: s2srea
    Quote from: MiserereMeiDeus
    The "Little Church of Wattles" (dedicated to Our Lady) in Glastonbury, England is believed to date from very shortly after the Crucifixion. Eventually Glastonbury Abbey sprang up around it. It may predate this Jordanian find.


    But its hard to believe that the English church would be that close to dating near this church when we think about the logics of distance from Jerusalem and the time it would have taken for an apostle to get out there- of course I may be wrong, but I would have to read more about both in detail. What do you think?


    The legend is that Joseph of Arimathea was a tin trader and an uncle of Our Lord (he also provided the sepulcher in which Our Lord was lain and in which He Rose from the Dead – see:    

    Mark 15:43 Joseph of Arimathea, a noble counsellor, who was also himself looking for the kingdom of God, came and went in boldly to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.

    John 19:38 And after these things, Joseph of Arimathea (because he was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jєωs) besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus. And Pilate gave leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus.

    Matthew 27:57 And when it was evening, there came a certain rich man of Arimathea, named Joseph, who also himself was a disciple of Jesus.),

    and that he was involved with the tin trade in Cornwall and actually brought Jesus and possibly Mary with him to England on one or more of his visits.

    There is another part of the same pious legend that after the Crucifixion he carried either the Chalice from the Last Supper or 2 cruets containing some of Our Savior's Precious Blood and some of His sweat (or alternatively water from His side), and that it was that Chalice or those cruets which were later the object of the Quest for the Holy Grail by knights (purported as part of the Arthurian lore – but the historical Arthur was a 5th century Celtic chieftain and bore no relation to the Arthur of Mallory's Morte d'Arthur and the whole Grail thing was taken over by the occultists, and it is impossible to separate fact from fantasy in a lot of this stuff)... but that said, the Church of Wattles apparently was built in the First Century by pilgrims, and we know it was rededicated in 166 AD.

    There's more – the legend says that Joseph of Arimathea carried with him a staff of thorn wood of the same type as the Crown of Thorns, and that he stuck it in the ground on Wirral (Weary-All) Hill, being weary, and it took root and blossomed, which he took as a sign to there build a small chapel and dedicate it to Our Lady. The Abbey eventually sprung up around the "Little Church of Wattles," and was later confiscated by the crown during the Deformation and the abbot hanged and drawn and quartered. A puritan zealot cut down the Holy Torn, and was blinded when a chip of wood from it flew into his eye. A scion hidden by recusants was planted on the original site, and grew, and retained a curious property of the original thorn, namely blooming on Christmas Day (which I once saw for myself).

    Unfortunately, last year a vandal cut down the scion.

    Fianally, do we know for certain that the Jordanian site is what it is claimed to be?
    "Let us thank God for having called us to His holy faith. It is a great gift, and the number of those who thank God for it is small."
    -- St. Alphonsus de Liguori

    Offline Gregory I

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    Archeologists find oldest Catholic church
    « Reply #7 on: November 11, 2011, 08:02:02 PM »
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  • Quote from: s2srea
    Quote from: MiserereMeiDeus
    The "Little Church of Wattles" (dedicated to Our Lady) in Glastonbury, England is believed to date from very shortly after the Crucifixion. Eventually Glastonbury Abbey sprang up around it. It may predate this Jordanian find.


    But its hard to believe that the English church would be that close to dating near this church when we think about the logics of distance from Jerusalem and the time it would have taken for an apostle to get out there- of course I may be wrong, but I would have to read more about both in detail. What do you think?


    Ah, but according to tradition, joseph of arimathea traded in tin, hence his riches. Largest source of Tin in first century?

    Britain.
    'Take care not to resemble the multitude whose knowledge of God's will only condemns them to more severe punishment.'

    -St. John of Avila


    Offline s2srea

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    Archeologists find oldest Catholic church
    « Reply #8 on: November 12, 2011, 09:21:04 AM »
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  • I stand corrected....

    Offline MiserereMeiDeus

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    Archeologists find oldest Catholic church
    « Reply #9 on: November 12, 2011, 10:35:12 AM »
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  • Quote from: s2srea
    I stand corrected....


    It's very difficult to say how much of the Glastonbury story is true. The Jordanian find may in fact be older, although I think a better name for this thread would have been "Archeologists claim to find oldest Catholic church."

    Anyway, even in England they don't claim that the Little Church of Wattles was the oldest in the world; they say it was oldest aboveground church, being predated by the catacombs n Rome.
    "Let us thank God for having called us to His holy faith. It is a great gift, and the number of those who thank God for it is small."
    -- St. Alphonsus de Liguori

    Offline wisconsheepgirl

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    Archeologists find oldest Catholic church
    « Reply #10 on: November 13, 2011, 02:46:04 PM »
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  • Oops! I was scrolling down with my laptop fingerpad and accidently clicked "Dislike" to MiserereMeiDeus comment....very sorry....

    I had to look up Glastonbury Thorn....just because it was mentioned. As Elizabeth, I love this sort of stuff.


    Offline MiserereMeiDeus

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    Archeologists find oldest Catholic church
    « Reply #11 on: November 14, 2011, 06:55:56 PM »
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  • Quote from: wisconsheepgirl
    Oops! I was scrolling down with my laptop fingerpad and accidently clicked "Dislike" to MiserereMeiDeus comment....very sorry.... [snip]


    It's okay, I'm sure I'll earn plenty of legitimate dislikes once I get warmed up and feel more comfortable here. I have a pretty big mouth, and tend to shoot from the lip. And I've never really mastered the art of sugarcoating my words. So far I've been on my best behavior, but now that I've got that first ding on my new car, I won't have to worry about keeping it pristine any longer...
    "Let us thank God for having called us to His holy faith. It is a great gift, and the number of those who thank God for it is small."
    -- St. Alphonsus de Liguori

    Offline MiserereMeiDeus

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    Archeologists find oldest Catholic church
    « Reply #12 on: November 14, 2011, 06:56:39 PM »
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  • I'm also pretty good at derailing threads...
    "Let us thank God for having called us to His holy faith. It is a great gift, and the number of those who thank God for it is small."
    -- St. Alphonsus de Liguori

    Offline Domitilla

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    Archeologists find oldest Catholic church
    « Reply #13 on: November 14, 2011, 07:08:39 PM »
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  • If you are who I think you are,  (Penitent 99 of AQ fame), you have a talent for derailing threads.

    Offline MiserereMeiDeus

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    Archeologists find oldest Catholic church
    « Reply #14 on: November 14, 2011, 11:06:31 PM »
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  • I don't derail them on purpose. It just sort of happens.
    "Let us thank God for having called us to His holy faith. It is a great gift, and the number of those who thank God for it is small."
    -- St. Alphonsus de Liguori