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Offline Maria Regina

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Re: Apostate Priest Damns Himself!
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2019, 05:38:45 PM »
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  •  Do all Catholics who "convert" to Orthodoxy have to make these renunciations?
    No, not all Catholics who "convert" to Orthodoxy make these renunciations.

    Nevertheless, do not be fooled.

    All those ex-Catholics who convert to Orthodoxy, by their very participation in Orthodox sacraments, are acknowledging these renunciations because they have become one in communion with all those who have made those renunciations.

    In addition, Freemasonry is still very much alive in orthodoxy. The hedonistic persecutions of Christians in Russia and in Portugal in 1917 were due to the satanic socialistic freemasons who had taken control of both Russia and Portugal and many other countries. Today's Vatican is also filled with freemasons as are the Russian, Greek, Antiochian and other nationalistic Orthodox churches.

    Could it be said that all those who commune with freemasons have become freemasons?

    Lord have mercy.

    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Apostate Priest Damns Himself!
    « Reply #31 on: June 14, 2019, 07:13:47 PM »
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  • No, not all Catholics who "convert" to Orthodoxy make these renunciations.

    Nevertheless, do not be fooled.

    All those ex-Catholics who convert to Orthodoxy, by their very participation in Orthodox sacraments, are acknowledging these renunciations because they have become one in communion with all those who have made those renunciations.

    In addition, Freemasonry is still very much alive in orthodoxy. The hedonistic persecutions of Christians in Russia and in Portugal in 1917 were due to the satanic socialistic freemasons who had taken control of both Russia and Portugal and many other countries. Today's Vatican is also filled with freemasons as are the Russian, Greek, Antiochian and other nationalistic Orthodox churches.

    Could it be said that all those who commune with freemasons have become freemasons?
    TBH I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion here, but I think the fact that freemasons care about infiltrating both Catholicism and EO is telling.

    Freemasons don't care about infiltrating Pastor Jim's Bible Baptist.  The EO, while they are separated from Rome and that objectively would lead to their damnation when maintained with full knowledge and consent, nevertheless have true priests, true sacraments, and true worship, and Satan hates this.  


    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Apostate Priest Damns Himself!
    « Reply #32 on: June 14, 2019, 07:19:36 PM »
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  • On the flipside, it refutes the whole "Rome is liberalizing, let's go EO Instead" line of reasoning, and I think once Vatican II/Novus Ordo related arguments for EO are thrown out, I don't see as much good reason to pick EO over Rome.  I don't really see what someone gets by being EO that they don't get by being a Byzantine Rite Catholic.

    Offline Your Friend Colin

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    Re: Apostate Priest Damns Himself!
    « Reply #33 on: June 14, 2019, 07:34:59 PM »
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  • nevertheless have true priests, true sacraments, and true worship, and Satan hates this.  
    Pope St Gregory the Great (590-604), Moralia: "Now the holy Church universal proclaims that God cannot be truly worshipped saving within herself, asserting that all they that are without her shall never be saved."

    “The Catholic Church alone preserves true worship." Pope Pius XI

    “A true worshipper is one whose mind has not been defiled with any false belief." Pope St. Leo the Great

    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Apostate Priest Damns Himself!
    « Reply #34 on: June 14, 2019, 07:37:00 PM »
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  • TBH I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion here, but I think the fact that freemasons care about infiltrating both Catholicism and EO is telling.

    Freemasons don't care about infiltrating Pastor Jim's Bible Baptist.  The EO, while they are separated from Rome and that objectively would lead to their damnation when maintained with full knowledge and consent, nevertheless have true priests, true sacraments, and true worship, and Satan hates this.  
    They have valid priests and sacraments. I wouldn't go so far to say that's "true worship". 

    One could argue the infiltration of the Russian Orthodox church (and subsidiaries) was for control of the main church in the USSR. 


    Offline Your Friend Colin

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    Re: Apostate Priest Damns Himself!
    « Reply #35 on: June 14, 2019, 07:41:08 PM »
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  • ByzCat, correct me if I’m wrong, but your sympathy towards the EO sometimes makes it appear as though you are fence sitting between Catholic and Ortho. 


    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Apostate Priest Damns Himself!
    « Reply #36 on: June 14, 2019, 07:53:58 PM »
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  • ByzCat, correct me if I’m wrong, but your sympathy towards the EO sometimes makes it appear as though you are fence sitting between Catholic and Ortho.
    Byzantine Catholics have more in common culturally with the EO than with Western Catholics. Western Catholics can seem even more foreign now after most took up Protestant practices.

    That's what I see going on here.

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Apostate Priest Damns Himself!
    « Reply #37 on: June 14, 2019, 09:03:57 PM »
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  • Byzantine Catholics have more in common culturally with the EO than with Western Catholics. Western Catholics can seem even more foreign now after most took up Protestant practices.

    That's what I see going on here.
    Way back in 1963, when my dad took us camping, we stopped by a small church in a sparsely populated area in Northern California for Sunday Mass. The church sign announced a Sunday Mass at 10:00 AM and St. Mark's looked like an ordinary Catholic Church, so we went inside. Everything looked normal. The altar was ornate, the statues were lovely. The choir and organist were very professional. Mass was the same, except, when we left the Church and were handed the Sunday bulletin, it read, "St. Mark's High Episcopal Church."  Yes, we did go to confession as soon as we arrived home a few days later, but the priest said not to worry.


    With the ICEL Vatican II liturgy now being used by both Catholics and Protestants, with the exception of the mention of Pope Francis, Novus Ordo Catholics have been protestantized whether they want to realize that fact or not.
    Lord have mercy.


    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Apostate Priest Damns Himself!
    « Reply #38 on: June 14, 2019, 10:55:26 PM »
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  • ByzCat, correct me if I’m wrong, but your sympathy towards the EO sometimes makes it appear as though you are fence sitting between Catholic and Ortho.
    I don't know what fence sitting means.  Can you define that for me?  Not trying to be difficult.

    I believe that Rome is the Church that Christ founded, that EO is objectively schismatic (however favorable the subjective disposition of many EOs might be), and that Rome's dogmas are correct on every point.

    I think that Protestantism is a way more ridiculous and way more dangerous (for the average person) position to be in than the EO, and I realize that very statement would be seen as "fence sitting" here 'cause most people here are basically Feeneyites (I use that term as a descriptive label, not as an insult), and I admit that while I definitely have traditionalist leanings, I don't fit neatly into any camp including the standard traditional one.

    But if by fence sitting you mean that I'm sitting here like, I'm not sure what I believe in, nope.  That's not the case.

    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Apostate Priest Damns Himself!
    « Reply #39 on: June 14, 2019, 11:05:15 PM »
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  • Pope St Gregory the Great (590-604), Moralia: "Now the holy Church universal proclaims that God cannot be truly worshipped saving within herself, asserting that all they that are without her shall never be saved."

    “The Catholic Church alone preserves true worship." Pope Pius XI

    “A true worshipper is one whose mind has not been defiled with any false belief." Pope St. Leo the Great
    The first and third quotes are pre schism, which is at least something I wonder about, furthermore I wonder how Pope St Leo the Great's quote applies to a *Catholic* who is wrong about what the Church has dogmatized (material heretic)


    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Re: Apostate Priest Damns Himself!
    « Reply #40 on: June 15, 2019, 06:03:37 AM »
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  • Way back in 1963, when my dad took us camping, we stopped by a small church in a sparsely populated area in Northern California for Sunday Mass. The church sign announced a Sunday Mass at 10:00 AM and St. Mark's looked like an ordinary Catholic Church, so we went inside. Everything looked normal. The altar was ornate, the statues were lovely. The choir and organist were very professional. Mass was the same, except, when we left the Church and were handed the Sunday bulletin, it read, "St. Mark's High Episcopal Church."  Yes, we did go to confession as soon as we arrived home a few days later, but the priest said not to worry.


    With the ICEL Vatican II liturgy now being used by both Catholics and Protestants, with the exception of the mention of Pope Francis, Novus Ordo Catholics have been protestantized whether they want to realize that fact or not.
    The same thing happened when I was in Dublin, Ireland and encountered St. Patrick's Cathedral — the Anglican cathedral.

    Simply attending does not make it a sin, especially if you didn't know. There are some Anglican parishes that are theologically and liturgically closer to Rome than Canterbury, and are hard to distinguish.
    Tío Samuel, ven pa 'aca


    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Apostate Priest Damns Himself!
    « Reply #41 on: June 15, 2019, 11:06:00 AM »
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  • The same thing happened when I was in Dublin, Ireland and encountered St. Patrick's Cathedral — the Anglican cathedral.

    Simply attending does not make it a sin, especially if you didn't know. There are some Anglican parishes that are theologically and liturgically closer to Rome than Canterbury, and are hard to distinguish.
    A Dominican priest told us that attending a Sunday liturgy where the priest was not validly ordained, said the words of the Canon improperly (intentionally invalidating the Holy Sacrament), or was not a Catholic priest, but a protestant, then in those cases, if we received Communion, then knowingly or unknowingly, we would have worshiped a false god, a piece of bread, not the Body of Christ.

    Thus, whenever we are unsure of the priest's situation, especially those from the Novus Ordo, of if that priest may be a satanist or a freemason who intentionally does not say the words of the Canon properly, or if we seriously question whether the ciborium contains real hosts, then we should not receive communion.

    Several of my friends who were parents of young children told me that when they were visiting strange churches, sometimes their children would warn them: "Mommy/Daddy, Christ is not present in this church." These churches turned out to be Novus Ordo, or worse, the priest was a freemason, satanist, and/ or pedophile. My friends then knew that their precious guardian angels were guiding them.

    The words from the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom come to mind:

    Prayers Right Before Communion
    I believe and confess, Lord, that Thou are truly the Christ, the Son of the living God, who hast come into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the first. I also believe that this is truly Thy most pure Body and that this is truly Thy precious Blood. Therefore, I pray to Thee, have mercy upon me, and forgive my transgressions, voluntary and involuntary, in word and deed, known and unknown. And make me worthy without condemnation to partake of Thy most pure Mysteries for the forgiveness of sins and for eternal life. Amen

    How shall I, who am unworthy, enter into the splendor of Thy saints? If I dare to enter into the bridal chamber, my clothing will accuse me, since it is not a wedding garment; and being bound up, I shall be cast out by the angels. In Thy love, Lord, cleanse my soul and save me.

    Loving Master, Lord Jesus Christ, my God, let not these holy Gifts be to my condemnation because of my unworthiness, but for the cleansing and sanctification of soul and body and the pledge of the future life and kingdom. It is good for me to cling to God and to place in Him the hope of my salvation.

    Receive me today, O Son of God, as a partaker of Thy mystical Supper for I will not reveal Thy Holy mysteries to Thine enemies. Neither will I give Thee a kiss as did Judas. But like the thief I will confess Thee: Lord, remember me in Thy Kingdom.
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Apostate Priest Damns Himself!
    « Reply #42 on: June 15, 2019, 11:13:42 AM »
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  • In several cases, where the priest was elderly, that priest forgot some or all of the prayers of the canon perhaps because his vestments flipped the pages of the book so that the prayers of the canon were omitted unintentionally.

    The chanter or altar server immediately went up to the altar and advised the priest of his error. The priest showing a look of shock, went back and prayed the words of the Canon.
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Apostate Priest Damns Himself!
    « Reply #43 on: June 15, 2019, 12:28:07 PM »
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  • Quote
    Could it be said that all those who commune with freemasons have become freemasons?
    I'm inclined to say no, because I think that misunderstands the role of those who are in authority with the role of those who are under authority. 

    As a layman, I don't have authority to break communion with Rome, and I'm certainly not a freemason because I don't.

    Even if Francis is ultimately an antipope, that is the job of the Church to determine, and not mine.  I am not going to be judged because I prayed for him, and because I'm in communion with him, because I'm not his superior who can depose him.

    Of course, I'd see differently the matter of the *superiors* of modernists, as they are obligated to do their jobs and maintain the doctrinal and moral purity of the Church.  But as a layman, my responsibility is for me, in the future any family I might have, and to be a witness for the truth to anyone I might talk to.  That's it.

    Now in the case of EO, I'll say this.  Converting to any EO church is indeed, by implication, recanting those truths that are held by Rome, and rejected by EO, because joining the EO church is to accept its doctrine, whether this is precisely verbally expressed or not.  THus, joining any EO church means recanting papal supremacy which, if done with the necessary levels of knowledge and consent of the will, will lead to the loss of one's soul.

    But more disturbing here, like I mentioned before, is the *lie* that Rome "teaches that the Pope and not Christ is the head of the Church."  PERHAPS the Russian Orthodox priest doesn't know better, though I think as a priest, he ought to know better, and *certainly* Fr. Constantine has to know that Rome doesn't teach this.

    And I find that even more disturbing than  anything.  Honestly leaving the Church is bad, but if you just can't accept what the Church teaches, better to leave than to stay and be a cafeteria Catholic.  But dishonesty... I can't find anything virtuous in that at all.

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Apostate Priest Damns Himself!
    « Reply #44 on: June 15, 2019, 04:12:31 PM »
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  • I don't know what fence sitting means.  Can you define that for me?  Not trying to be difficult.

    I believe that Rome is the Church that Christ founded, that EO is objectively schismatic (however favorable the subjective disposition of many EOs might be), and that Rome's dogmas are correct on every point.

    I think that Protestantism is a way more ridiculous and way more dangerous (for the average person) position to be in than the EO, and I realize that very statement would be seen as "fence sitting" here 'cause most people here are basically Feeneyites (I use that term as a descriptive label, not as an insult), and I admit that while I definitely have traditionalist leanings, I don't fit neatly into any camp including the standard traditional one.

    But if by fence sitting you mean that I'm sitting here like, I'm not sure what I believe in, nope.  That's not the case.
    Fence sitting:
    So there's two gardens. The Catholic garden and the Orthodox garden. Divided by a fence. A man is not sure which garden he likes better, so he sits on the fence separating them, undecided. 
    That's basically what he was accusing you of doing. 

     

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