Author Topic: Apostate Priest Damns Himself! (Read 3049 times)

SeanJohnson · « **on:** June 04, 2019, 09:31:48 PM »

Hard to watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=97&v=g9ksr6Sb_2A

Kazimierz · « **Reply #1 on:** June 04, 2019, 09:53:58 PM »

Very apparent that this poor soul was so infected with conciliarism as not to see the One True Catholic Faith and the serious problems with Orthodoxy. Shoot, even the Orthodox churches dont agree with one another.

Matthew · « **Reply #2 on:** June 04, 2019, 09:57:57 PM »

It's sad to watch someone apostatize before your eyes. What an awful thing.

I can't imagine being that priest. I'm thinking I'd rather be literally anywhere else, and anyone else, than in that priest's shoes right then and there.

ByzCat3000 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 04, 2019, 09:58:26 PM »

Quote from: SeanJohnson on June 04, 2019, 09:31:48 PM

Hard to watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=97&v=g9ksr6Sb_2A

The first line (from where you started the video) is a Protestant level strawman. Honestly that angered me more than anything else. EOs can be so petty sometimes.

Kazimierz · « **Reply #4 on:** June 04, 2019, 09:59:53 PM »

From a Veterans Day article from last fall......I did not know the rupture was this bad.

Orthodox unity splits as Russian Orthodox Church breaks ties with Constantinople

The Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church, which gathered for a meeting in Minsk, decided to break the Eucharistic communion with the Ecuмenical Patriarchate.

A statement published on the official website of the Russian Orthodox Church says: “Assigning to oneself the authority to withdraw judicial and other decisions of other Local Orthodox Churches is one of the manifestations of the new false teaching proclaimed today by the Constantinople Church and attributing the law of the first without equal (primus sine paribus) to the Patriarch of Constantinople with universal jurisdiction.
“Such a vision of its rights and powers by the Constantinople Patriarchate comes into irresistible contradiction with the centuries-old canonical tradition, upon which the existence of the Russian Orthodox Church and other Local Churches is based,” the Council of Bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church warned in 2008 in defining the “Unity of the Church.”

The Russian Orthodox church had repeatedly urged the Church of Constantinople to exercise caution and refrain from steps that could undermine the unity of Orthodox believers.
The Russian Orthodox Church made the decision to break the Eucharistic communion after the Patriarchate of Constantinople, single-handedly removed anathemas and accepted dissenter and “patriarch” Philaret (Denisenko), into the communion. The Russian Church had deprived Philaret of all ranks and titles and anathematized him.
Additionally, the Ecuмenical Patriarchate penetrated into the canonical territory of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, which is an inalienable part of the Russian Orthodox Church. The invasion was carried out under the pretext of “granting autocephaly”, i.e. independence to the Ukrainian Church on the Russian Orthodox Church. However, the Ukrainian Church did not ask for this either from Moscow or from the Ecuмenical Patriarchate.
In general, the issue of Constantinople’s interference goes far beyond the limits of Ukraine. In fact, Patriarch Bartholomew and his hierarchs strike a blow to the canonical structure of Orthodoxy and Orthodox unity on a global scale.
Serbian bishop Irinej (Bulowic) stated that the Ecuмenical Patriarchate has provided autocephaly to dissenters. A few days ago, Archbishop Ieronymos of Athens and All Greece refused to meet with Patriarch Bartholomew.
In principle, the termination of Eucharistic communion between the Russian Church and the Patriarchate of Constantinople had occurred in the late 1990s, but only for a few weeks. The reason was the same: Constantinople interfered into the canonical territories of the Russian Church – in Estonia. Yet, Patriarch Bartholomew peddled back and the problem was solved peacefully. Yet, judging by latest statements from the Ecuмenical Patriarchate, they are not going to stop.

See more at http://www.pravdareport.com/society/stories/16-10-2018/141789-russian_orthodox_church-0/

Officially, the Kremlin’s website states that the Security Council was devoted to “the internal Russian socio-economic agenda and international issues.”
However, in addition to this, it was particularly emphasized that the participants of the Security Council exchanged views on the issues of “the position of the Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine after the decision on autocephaly by Constantinople”.
It is clear that the liberal public is already shouting that “we have a secular state” and that this state should not interfere in church affairs. But, the fact is that, firstly, the Security Council participants “exchanged views.” The theme of religion for the exchange of views even at the Security Council in our state is not taboo. They wanted to – and talked.
The second important point is that the same public didn’t see “nothing” when it was the Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko who began demanding this autocephaly for the Ukrainian church and for political reasons, comparing the creation of a “single and independent Ukrainian church” with Ukraine’s NATO.

And here there is a very subtle point: if some religious processes are used in a purely political manner, then the state, be it three times secular, perceives these processes as political and assesses from their respective positions.
As some experts note, the “exchange of opinions” on the issue of autocephaly, as if hints that the Russian state began to perceive this issue from the standpoint of national security, and external threats to this very security.
In the channel of the Master of the Pen, for example, they write that during the Security Council, “the meeting’s participants agreed that Washington, behind whose votes the Constantinople patriarch Bartholomew sings, is behind it. Foreign Minister Lavrov expressed this point of view. , who declared a provocation by Bartholomew with the support of the United States, mentioning the special representative for Ukraine Volcker in a sharply negative context. “
And further, the author adds: “By itself, the presidential intervention in the Orthodox drama is probably forced.”
True, the author further blames Patriarch Cyril of certain “mistakes and omissions”, but here it is absolutely incomprehensible where the primate of the Russian Church was wrong, who until the last time had held talks with Varfolomey, met him personally, was in Ukraine after the Maidan events and continues Now do everything to preserve the unity of the Russian Church.
Putin, in turn, naturally has to raise the issue of the unity of the Church and of the actions leading to the split of this Church in Ukraine, since not so much from a religious, but from a cultural, historical and social point of view, these actions pose a danger to Russia, and for Russian Orthodox in Ukraine, who are there, for a moment, several million people.
And from a practical point of view, a situation may now arise of a massive seizure of temples and monasteries by schismatics, from whom Bartholomew himself removed the anathemas imposed by the Russian Church. Moreover, such an activity as the forceful seizure of temples by the same “Filaretists” has been constantly practiced since the beginning of the nineties.
By the way, from a theological point of view, the incident itself of “granting autocephaly” has also already received a theological assessment , and not only among Russian Orthodox theologians.
Thus, the Bishop of the Serbian Orthodox Church, Irenaeus, in his lengthy speech noted: “Ukraine has the canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church, which as an autonomous Local Church is subordinate to the Moscow Patriarchate, is recognized by all and without exception in Eucharistic communion.
This church does not want and did not ask anyone for autocephaly, not even the Moscow Patriarchate, to which it refers and which in such a case would be called upon to begin the whole procedure, coming out with an appropriate proposal, neither from the Constantinople Patriarchate, which then, in the framework of coordinating the issue, it is called to bring this issue to a pan-Orthodox discussion and a final decision …
In parallel with this canonical Ukrainian Church, there are three schismatic associations in the country, and in addition to them, an aggressive Uniate community. And these negotiations on autocephaly are being conducted with these schismatic “Churches” and at the same time with the state authorities of Ukraine in the absence of the canonical Church and contrary to her will. It goes without saying that the Uniates intervene on the side of the schismators in the most brazen manner.
Consequently, this is not about the project of granting autocephaly to the Ukrainian Church, as we constantly hear and read about it, but about the program of granting autocephaly to Ukrainian schismatic (schismatic) entities. “
By the way, according to TASS, citing sources in the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church, “the Vatican does not categorically interfere in the affairs of Orthodoxy, but it is already clear that the Holy Throne will not come into contact with the church recognized by Bartholomew (Patriarch of Constantinople)” .
What are these “schismatic associations” from a political point of view? This, for the most part, is Ukrainian neo-nαzιs. Therefore, the issue of national security in the context of church events in Ukraine is even more justified. Neo-nαzιsm, and not neo-but simply nαzιsm, is a threat to which Russia has already been subjected, and everyone knows what the consequences of this threat were in 1941-1945.
The question is quite logical, what will happen next? After this Security Council? Most likely, the expectation of reciprocal steps of the Constantinople Patriarchate, the Ukrainian authorities, will follow, if there remains at least someone at least minimally adequate, and, apparently, Washington.
If these “respected parties” surrender and, at least, “freeze the process,” then Moscow, in turn, will retreat from considering the issue and taking concrete measures. But if not, then our diplomacy will be involved.
Because, for example, we now have very good relations with the Turkish leadership. And the Ecuмenical Patriarchate is, it is worth recalling, in one of the quarters of Istanbul.
And besides, the Turkish Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate – it sounds beautiful. Moreover, Turkish Orthodoxy also wanted Kemal Atatürk.

Matthew · « **Reply #5 on:** June 04, 2019, 10:00:39 PM »

Quote from: ByzCat3000 on June 04, 2019, 09:58:26 PM

The first line (from where you started the video) is a Protestant level strawman. Honestly that angered me more than anything else. EOs can be so petty sometimes.

Yes, I guess that's the problem with schismatics and heretics. The truth isn't important to them.
As if the Catholic Church actually taught that! How can they PRETEND to be of the truth when they find it necessary to lie like that?

ByzCat3000 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 04, 2019, 10:39:03 PM »

Quote from: Matthew on June 04, 2019, 10:00:39 PM

Yes, I guess that's the problem with schismatics and heretics. The truth isn't important to them.
As if the Catholic Church actually taught that! How can they PRETEND to be of the truth when they find it necessary to lie like that?

I don't know, I've encountered EOs and even Protestants who, whatever else we say of them ,try to represent Catholic opinions fairly. And then I've encountered those who don't.

I really think dishonesty like that calls you dedication to the truth into serious suspect.

ByzCat3000 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 04, 2019, 10:40:31 PM »

Quote from: Matthew on June 04, 2019, 09:57:57 PM

It's sad to watch someone apostatize before your eyes. What an awful thing.

I can't imagine being that priest. I'm thinking I'd rather be literally anywhere else, and anyone else, than in that priest's shoes right then and there.

I'm not trying to be difficult, but would you rather be an ISIS militant? Some pagan in the Amazon rainforest who cannibalizes other humans? Heck, a Baptist minister who blasphemes Mary from the pulpit?

I'm not saying this priest is in a good spot, but it seems really, really easy for me to imagine worse things. But I'm new to the true faith, so I could easily be missing things.

Matthew · « **Reply #8 on:** June 04, 2019, 11:14:50 PM »

Quote from: ByzCat3000 on June 04, 2019, 10:40:31 PM

I'm not trying to be difficult, but would you rather be an ISIS militant? Some pagan in the Amazon rainforest who cannibalizes other humans? Heck, a Baptist minister who blasphemes Mary from the pulpit?

I'm not saying this priest is in a good spot, but it seems really, really easy for me to imagine worse things. But I'm new to the true faith, so I could easily be missing things.

Being an ISIS militant or a Baptist minister would be a sideways move. No better or worse.

But actually, it could be argued that those individuals are in a better place than an apostate. They might, theoretically, be shown the truth if it were explained in the right way, and they could convert to the True Faith.

But an apostate? He has seen, accepted, and then rejected the True Faith. What is the chance of an apostate coming back to the Faith? Very slim. Slimmer than a convert converting to the Faith for the first time.

A first-time convert can take refuge in, "I didn't know! I had no idea! I was deceived!" ...but an apostate? They could only beat up themselves. That's something few are capable of.

ByzCat3000 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 04, 2019, 11:28:13 PM »

Quote from: Matthew on June 04, 2019, 11:14:50 PM

Being an ISIS militant or a Baptist minister would be a sideways move. No better or worse.

But actually, it could be argued that those individuals are in a better place than an apostate. They might, theoretically, be shown the truth if it were explained in the right way, and they could convert to the True Faith.

But an apostate? He has seen, accepted, and then rejected the True Faith. What is the chance of an apostate coming back to the Faith? Very slim. Slimmer than a convert converting to the Faith for the first time.

A first-time convert can take refuge in, "I didn't know! I had no idea! I was deceived!" ...but an apostate? They could only beat up themselves. That's something few are capable of.

As a general statement, would you refrain from making any distinctions between false religions? ie. being an EO is just as bad as being a fundamentalist Muslim? Or do you say so in this particular case particularly because this priest knew what he was turning his back on and did it anyway?

Is a Protestant who converts to Eastern Orthodoxy taking a step in the right direction? Is a Muslim who converts to Protestantism taking a step in the right direction? Is an atheist who concludes that God exists taking a step in the right direction? Why or why not?

JezusDeKoning · « **Reply #10 on:** June 05, 2019, 12:09:43 AM »

Quote from: ByzCat3000 on June 04, 2019, 11:28:13 PM

As a general statement, would you refrain from making any distinctions between false religions? ie. being an EO is just as bad as being a fundamentalist Muslim? Or do you say so in this particular case particularly because this priest knew what he was turning his back on and did it anyway?

Is a Protestant who converts to Eastern Orthodoxy taking a step in the right direction? Is a Muslim who converts to Protestantism taking a step in the right direction? Is an atheist who concludes that God exists taking a step in the right direction? Why or why not?

Yes, because they're baby steps. One is getting closer to the True Faith than before and one at least believes in Christ as his Lord. Many converts to the Faith take several detours before getting to Catholicism.

Your Friend Colin · « **Reply #11 on:** June 05, 2019, 06:45:17 AM »

Quote from: ByzCat3000 on June 04, 2019, 10:40:31 PM

I'm not trying to be difficult, but would you rather be an ISIS militant? Some pagan in the Amazon rainforest who cannibalizes other humans? Heck, a Baptist minister who blasphemes Mary from the pulpit?

I'm not saying this priest is in a good spot, but it seems really, really easy for me to imagine worse things. But I'm new to the true faith, so I could easily be missing things.

The priest is in a worse situation. Granted, neither the ISIS Moslem nor Baptist can be saved without the Catholic Faith.

I say the priest is in a worse situation because he knew the Truth and rejected it. Whereas, presumably, the Moslem nor the Baptist ever had the Faith.

For if, flying from the pollutions of the world, through the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they be again entangled in them and overcome: their latter state is become unto them worse than the former. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of justice than, after they have known it, to turn back from that holy commandment which was delivered to them. For, that of the true proverb has happened to them: The dog is returned to his vomit; and: The sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. (2 Peter 2:20-22, DR)

Ladislaus · « **Reply #12 on:** June 05, 2019, 09:22:54 AM »

This reinforces the importance of faith. He'd be in a better state if it turned out that he had several dozen illegitimate children by as many women.

Ironically, the Orthodox take this seriously by making him renounce his "errors". Too bad we don't do the same, when it is we who have the true faith.

Let the Orthodox now enjoy this possibly-invalid "priest" -- servers them right for corrupting him and bringing him to Satan.

Also, let us use this as an occasion to reject the sentimental nonsense promoted by the Novus Ordo and also bought into by many Trad Catholics that the Orthodox are merely in material error and are well-meaning but a little confused. They are about as bad as the get despite the superficial veneer of Traditional Liturgical Rites.

Also, let this be a reminder that the fight is primarily about the faith and not the Liturgy, for the Orthodox have the latter but could hardly be further from the true faith, and their use of these Liturgies which belong to the One True Church are nothing but sacrileges.

So we can learn much from this man's dramatic corruption.

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #13 on:** June 05, 2019, 09:59:03 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on June 05, 2019, 09:22:54 AM

This reinforces the importance of faith. He'd be in a better state if it turned out that he had several dozen illegitimate children by as many women.

Ironically, the Orthodox take this seriously by making him renounce his "errors". Too bad we don't do the same, when it is we who have the true faith.

Let the Orthodox now enjoy this possibly-invalid "priest" -- servers them right for corrupting him and bringing him to Satan.

Also, let us use this as an occasion to reject the sentimental nonsense promoted by the Novus Ordo and also bought into by many Trad Catholics that the Orthodox are merely in material error and are well-meaning but a little confused. They are about as bad as the get despite the superficial veneer of Traditional Liturgical Rites.

Also, let this be a reminder that the fight is primarily about the faith and not the Liturgy, for the Orthodox have the latter but could hardly be further from the true faith, and their use of these Liturgies which belong to the One True Church are nothing but sacrileges.

So we can learn much from this man's dramatic corruption.

:applause:

Yep. It’s about quite a bit more than the Mass. It’s about the Faith. Well said!

Student of Qi · « **Reply #14 on:** June 05, 2019, 11:13:23 AM »

Quote from: Kazimierz on June 04, 2019, 09:53:58 PM

Very apparent that this poor soul was so infected with conciliarism as not to see the One True Catholic Faith and the serious problems with Orthodoxy. Shoot, even the Orthodox churches dont agree with one another.

The Eastern Orthodox do not have disputes of Doctrin or Dogma like we do. Their problems are usually political, like the recent split of Russia and Comstantonople. Bartholomew is what many Tradotional Orthodox call a U.N. shill and is trying to make himself into an equivalent of our Pope. "If we need a Pope, then just subject to Rome" I heard said. The difference is that we often fight over doctrine while they fight for politics. I'm sure most people here don't even keep up with their quarrels and the lengths it's gone to.
Seriously, if you would hear some sermons by Russian Patriarch Kirill, you would be agreeing with his orthodoxy (little "O").

Author Topic: Apostate Priest Damns Himself! (Read 3049 times)

SeanJohnson

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Kazimierz

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Matthew

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ByzCat3000

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Matthew

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ByzCat3000

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Matthew

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JezusDeKoning

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Your Friend Colin

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Ladislaus

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