I personally know many NO people who maintain a good prayer life, willingly suffer their crosses for Christ, raise their kids with care, prevent them from watching TV, from seeing movies, from social media, have them dress appropriately, who believe wholeheartedly in the Real Presence, who say the rosary, and who attend Mass weekly, even attend Mass daily. For whatever reason, they have not traversed the waters to Tradition. Several I know are priests. These NO's consider themselves Catholic, but are simultaneously considered apostate heretics by many Traditionalists. I wonder, have Traditionalists gone so far into what they deem to be dogmatic teachings that they overstepped some boundaries? Many Trads are willing to cut off other Catholics because of that person's affiliation with the NO. Does the post-VII Catholic have something that Traditionalists refuse to acknowledge? I wonder. I still hesitate because of the damage from the NO VII fallout, as any concerned Catholic would. It just makes me wonder if what the Church actually "does" in practice (the NO), is too quickly condemned, when in fact, guilt for loss of Faith emanates from choices of those who stretched things beyond what the Church permitted. In other words, the NO itself might technically be acceptable, dare I wonder, even VII. Can we not blame interim deviancy from what the Church officially practices? Some insist its all bad, from the beginning, and the fruits prove it. With that, I tend to agree. With the wicked prelates carrying on, there appears to be a trajectory here. Indeed, this road is not easily navigable by those without mind numbing discernment, which is why its safer to remain in Tradition. But I find it very difficult to believe that the Church Herself, in permitting (accepting or tolerating) the NO, has done what is evil. And for those who say She never permitted it, it is impossible to say the visible Catholic Church doesn't do it in practice. Now, this is where the sedevacantist steps in and says, Francis isn't the Pope and the post VII Church is false so we have no connection to them anyway. Ok, I get it. I do. And yet, the Faithful NO laity still exist. Sanctuary lamps lit near tabernacles burn, bones of saints rest under the sanctuaries, communion is received, and the signs out front still say "Catholic". Sure, some churches are downright demonic when Fr. "Scandalous" presides, but can it be that all those Churches and peoples were cut off for accepting what their authorities insist is Catholic practice? I'm not trying to get into some monster debate here. Since God always chastises whom He loves, and if Trads are His people, it's Trads that ought remain humble and open to accepting the extent of what Christ does in order to save His people.