Author Topic: any REAL apparitions?  (Read 2255 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline xavierpope

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 47
  • Reputation: +8/-1
  • Gender: Male
any REAL apparitions?
« on: June 20, 2018, 11:26:50 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Anyone know of any real apparitions happening in the world at this moment. I know back in 2014 Jesus appered to a nigerian bishop with a sword and the sword turned into a pair of rosary beads and told him to pray the rosary to get rid of bokoharam.


    I've heard of other appirtions happening (certain bosnian country) but the messages don't sound right.

    Offline Mega-fin

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 371
    • Reputation: +247/-90
    • Gender: Male
    Re: any REAL apparitions?
    « Reply #1 on: June 20, 2018, 04:22:23 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • We need to be careful to avoid sensationalism with apparitions. The Church has always had a strict process to weed out fake apparitions from true ones. This is why people get so involved in Medjugorje, Bayside, Garabandal, etc, they hear the Mother of God is giving a message and they follow blindly. Many Medjugorje followers use their subjective “experience” as proof, which is entirely Protestant. Stick with the tried and true. Stick with what the Church teaches, and be wary of searching for a phenomenon. Because we can be very easily swayed ...


    Offline 2Vermont

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4618
    • Reputation: +2139/-893
    • Gender: Female
    Re: any REAL apparitions?
    « Reply #2 on: June 20, 2018, 05:35:06 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Even apparitions that are approved by Church authority are considered private revelation and therefore no Catholic is required to believe in them. 
    "For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad."- Luke 8:17

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 17789
    • Reputation: +9968/-4467
    • Gender: Male
    Re: any REAL apparitions?
    « Reply #3 on: June 20, 2018, 06:30:00 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Even apparitions that are approved by Church authority are considered private revelation and therefore no Catholic is required to believe in them.

    Even so, it would be extremely rash and even sinful to reject those that the Church has universally endorsed and whose visionaries she has canonized, e.g. Lourdes to St. Bernadette, the Sacred Heart apparitions to St. Margaret Mary, etc.

    Offline Last Tradhican

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2993
    • Reputation: +1650/-968
    • Gender: Male
    Re: any REAL apparitions?
    « Reply #4 on: June 20, 2018, 11:10:12 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Even apparitions that are approved by Church authority are considered private revelation and therefore no Catholic is required to believe in them.
    I believe this is a myth that keeps being repeated. Do you have any documentation on the matter? That excuse was used by that modernist/progressivist idiot critic of Fatima in the 1930's, I forget his name ( I tend to forget what I consider useless information), he concluded for one thing, that the 70,000 who saw the miracle of the Sun were victims of mass hallucination. 

    Common sense tells me that if the Church has approved the apparition, and moreover, the seers were later declared saints, that to say "no Catholic is required to believe in them" is akin to saying no Catholic is required to believe a person is a saint.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 14893
    • Reputation: +686/-2515
    • Gender: Male
    Re: any REAL apparitions?
    « Reply #5 on: June 21, 2018, 05:02:51 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • An image of the Virgin Mary may have been captured on December 12, the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe. The image was snapped by Fr. Fernando Molina-Restrepo of the Transfiguration Catholic Church in Marietta, Georgia.
    The image has hardly gained much attention, being reported on a few outlets and in Atlanta. Catholic Online learned of the apparition just today.
    The image is captured on glass at the church hall and reveals Our Lady appears dressed as she was when she appeared before Juan Diego. There is a blue tint to her outer garment, which is also trimmed with gold. Her inner garments are pink in color. Her hands appear folded and her head looks bowed.
    Parishioners said they were in the parish hall when the image appeared accompanied by the scent of roses. Victor Jose Alvarado told CBS News that parishioners started praying and singing at the sight. A sense of peace overcame everyone.
    Critics have said the apparition is nothing more than a "faulty coating" on the window. If so, then how can they explain its sudden appearance, the smell of roses attested by the parishioners, and their sense of peace? A faulty coating would be present from early on and might not even escape the factory and it certainly wouldn't be installed. There's also the timing of the apparition to consider --the feast day of Our Lady of Guadalupe.
    The apparition was not accompanied by any messages or visions, but it's no less powerful for being silent. Fr. Molina-Restrepo wrote to CBS, "We may never agree on why or how this image appeared on the window. The true gift to us will be in how we are inspired to be MORE: more forgiving, more accepting, more loving to those with whom we share our lives."
    That's a message we can all agree on.

    https://www.catholic.org/news/hf/faith/story.php?id=66621

    Offline Banezian

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 269
    • Reputation: +77/-635
    • Gender: Male
    Re: any REAL apparitions?
    « Reply #6 on: June 21, 2018, 02:36:13 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!4
  • I believe this is a myth that keeps being repeated. Do you have any documentation on the matter? That excuse was used by that modernist/progressivist idiot critic of Fatima in the 1930's, I forget his name ( I tend to forget what I consider useless information), he concluded for one thing, that the 70,000 who saw the miracle of the Sun were victims of mass hallucination.

    Common sense tells me that if the Church has approved the apparition, and moreover, the seers were later declared saints, that to say "no Catholic is required to believe in them" is akin to saying no Catholic is required to believe a person is a saint.
    Nonsense. No one is required to accept any private revelation. When the Church approves a revelation, all they are saying is that something supernatural MAY have happened here. Scripture is our first and strongest rule of Faith. St. Thomas notes 
    “Sacred doctrine makes use of these authorities as extrinsic and probable arguments; but properly uses the authority of the canonical Scriptures as an incontrovertible proof, and the authority of the doctors of the Church as one that may properly be used, yet merely as probable. For our faith rests upon the revelation made to the apostlesand prophets who wrote the canonical books, and not on the revelations (if any such there are) made to other doctors. Hence Augustine says (Epis. ad Hieron. xix, 1): "Only those books of Scripturewhich are called canonical have I learned to hold in such honor as to believe their authors have not erred in any way in writing them. But other authors I so read as not to deem everything in their works to be true, merely on account of their having so thought and written, whatever may have been their holinessand learning"
     
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 17789
    • Reputation: +9968/-4467
    • Gender: Male
    Re: any REAL apparitions?
    « Reply #7 on: June 21, 2018, 03:01:17 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
  • Nonsense. No one is required to accept any private revelation. When the Church approves a revelation, all they are saying is that something supernatural MAY have happened here.

    Complete garbage.  No, the Church is not saying that something "MAY" have happened.  When the Church approves the revelations, the Church is stating that they are of God ... and that is why the Church is so cautious about approving them.  No, private revelation is not the same as public revelation.  Indeed, no theological conclusions are derived from it and nothing is "de fide" that comes from a private revelation, but one would be rash and sinful to reject those that have the public universal approbation of the Church and whose visionaries have been canonized.  It almost derives from the Church's infallibility.  Since the Church has widely promoted Fatima or Lourdes or the apparitions to St. Margaret Mary as if they were authentic and genuine, and these turned out to be fake, this would be a major black eye on the Church if they were in fact fakes or even diabolical.  No, the Church does not endorse the apparition as if it were Sacred Scripture, so that every word must be accepted as if it were divine, but to doubt that a revelation that was universally endorsed and promoted by the Church is authentic and of God would be rash and sinful.


    Offline 2Vermont

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4618
    • Reputation: +2139/-893
    • Gender: Female
    Re: any REAL apparitions?
    « Reply #8 on: June 21, 2018, 03:10:21 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I believe this is a myth that keeps being repeated. Do you have any documentation on the matter? That excuse was used by that modernist/progressivist idiot critic of Fatima in the 1930's, I forget his name ( I tend to forget what I consider useless information), he concluded for one thing, that the 70,000 who saw the miracle of the Sun were victims of mass hallucination.

    Common sense tells me that if the Church has approved the apparition, and moreover, the seers were later declared saints, that to say "no Catholic is required to believe in them" is akin to saying no Catholic is required to believe a person is a saint.
    No, it is not akin to that because the canonization of a saint is infallible based on the second object of infallibility.  Approved apparitions are not.

    As for documentation regarding private revelations, I will check....

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13005a.htm

    There are two kinds of revelations: (1) universal revelations, which are contained in the Bible or in the depositum of Apostolic tradition transmitted by the Church. These ended with the preaching of the Apostles and must be believed by all; (2) particular or private revelations which are constantly occurring among Christians (see CONTEMPLATION). When the Church approves private revelations, she declares only that there is nothing in them contrary faith or good morals, and that they may be read without danger or even with profit; no obligation is thereby imposed on the faithful to believe them.
    "For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad."- Luke 8:17

    Offline Banezian

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 269
    • Reputation: +77/-635
    • Gender: Male
    Re: any REAL apparitions?
    « Reply #9 on: June 21, 2018, 03:12:18 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!3
  • Complete garbage.  No, the Church is not saying that something "MAY" have happened.  When the Church approves the revelations, the Church is stating that they are of God ... and that is why the Church is so cautious about approving them.  No, private revelation is not the same as public revelation.  Indeed, no theological conclusions are derived from it and nothing is "de fide" that comes from a private revelations, but one would be rash and sinful to reject those that have the public universal approbation of the Church and whose visionaries have been canonized.
    But what does it mean to say they are "ofGod"? Does it mean that everything the person claiming to receive the revelation said is true? Certainly not. When it comes to Fatima for example, I have a very hard time believing that the children received revelation on future historical events, and it's laughable to see people go on and on about what the"Third Secret" might be. These things are speculative. Scripture and the Tradition of the Church are our foundation. If people would read Scripture daily and study the Fathers instead of superstitiously   focusing on private revelation/apparitions, maybe Catholics could actually defend the Faith( are you aware of the state of Catholic apologetics these days?)
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9

    Offline Last Tradhican

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2993
    • Reputation: +1650/-968
    • Gender: Male
    Re: any REAL apparitions?
    « Reply #10 on: June 21, 2018, 03:28:29 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • are you aware of the state of Catholic apologetics these days?
    Are you aware of your own apologetics? +26/-75
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline Banezian

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 269
    • Reputation: +77/-635
    • Gender: Male
    Re: any REAL apparitions?
    « Reply #11 on: June 21, 2018, 03:32:05 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!5
  • Are you aware of your own apologetics? +26/-75
    I don't much care what the wackos on Cathinfo think of me
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9

    Offline Last Tradhican

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2993
    • Reputation: +1650/-968
    • Gender: Male
    Re: any REAL apparitions?
    « Reply #12 on: June 21, 2018, 03:46:33 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • I don't much care what the wackos on Cathinfo think of me
    That's a lot of wackos, a 3:1 rejection ratio, pretty much makes all of Cathinfo people wackos. Only liberal Novus Ordo's have come close to your record. Even Poche is doing 50% better than you with his 2:1 rejection ratio.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Banezian

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 269
    • Reputation: +77/-635
    • Gender: Male
    Re: any REAL apparitions?
    « Reply #13 on: June 21, 2018, 03:54:13 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!5
  • That's a lot of wackos, a 3:1 rejection ratio, pretty much makes all of Cathinfo people wackos. Only liberal Novus Ordo's have come close to your record.
    Well this place is more or less dominated by sedes and Feeneyites.( both wacko positions) Not many fellow SSPXers here. That's ok though. My reputation on an Internet forum means very little to me
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9

    Offline Last Tradhican

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2993
    • Reputation: +1650/-968
    • Gender: Male
    Re: any REAL apparitions?
    « Reply #14 on: June 21, 2018, 03:56:37 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Well this place is more or less dominated by sedes and Feeneyites.( both wacko positions) Not many fellow SSPXers here. That's ok though. My reputation on an Internet forum means very little to me
    Matthews CI poll says strongly otherwise. You seem to be a legend in your own mind. You have never answered my many times asked question asking for your age. You come off as a 20 year old with no real life experience. No offense. 
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

     

    Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16