[Belloc]

wow, give up why dont you...the answer is fairly simple, and I do not obsess with "time of gentiles is over", so what then? hide in a bunker? dont even try to spread the faith? curl up, fetal and die? many rapturists taht the opinion, that we can do nothing and heck, lets wait for the rapture, so..

Easy:

1. santification of self
2. know your faith, in and out
3. shre it with others when able to, do so most of the time in a non-confrontational way-take the time to feel out and know what your opponent is thinking and beleiving.Look for ways to plant the seeds and water, the Holy Ghost will harvest and grow.
4. be approachable, remember, attacking, belittling and smugness does NOT win over converts from without...
5. Teach the principles of Catholic thought, read books on the Catholic social order (IHS press has some good ones, also, books by Fr. Fahey, Ouset and others).
6. Dont settle, the Faith is to imbue every facet of life-economics, govt, foreign policy,etc,etc.
7. work toward bringing the nation in line with Catholic teaching, using what skills nad station in life you have-many of our teachings are gaining acceptance with non-Catholics, push for that, they need not be Catholic at the time to support a Catholic stance, use that.

The "there is no hop, it is a lost cause" arguement is not acceptable to me, that is never used in fighting gun control, abortion, Obama, Democrats, etc,etc-no Catholic normally says "why fight abortion, it is a lost cause"....so why, then, is it a lost cause to re-Catholicize the world and ones nation? start with self, then family, friends and move outward-dont wait for orders from HQ, your pirests and bishops often will remain silent and/or inept, move forward.

lastly, yeah, I noticed we are in apostasy-so what? during Roman persecutions, the Church thrived and grew. I am 39, have lived through a lot, beleive me and saw/heard a lot, unlike many, did not just op my head out of the ground and wonder "what the heck happened". I know that the answer to our problems is not to scape-goat Muslims, Obama, Democrats or any other Goldstein "them". It is to re-Catholicize the world and yes, it takes prayer and action. They go hand in hand.....hope this gets a start at least, sorry, but I tend to read a lot and where some people get worked up over star spangled banner and the USA flag, I get excited about the Catholic Social Order and what could be, not what is right now...aim high, my friend, God rewards the effort, not the outcome!!

Michael Peroutka, a former Catholic, has a good saying "we plant, we water, teh harvest is up to God, but we must plow our row". Lets pray for that and for him to return to the Fide!.

Meanwhile, lets you and I continue down the path, our souls, famililes,communities and nations require that we do this. Real patriotism  is like real chairty, proclaiming and promoting the truth, which is Christ, which is His one and only Church.

Thanks for listening.Lets us pray and owrk for each other, recalling:
1 Peter 3:15 :But sanctify the Lord Christ in your hearts, being ready always to satisfy every one that asketh you a reason of that hope which is in you

and:

as St. Thomas maintains: "Each one is under obligation to show forth his faith, either to instruct and encourage others of the faithful, or to repel the attacks of unbelievers.''[12] To recoil before an enemy, or to keep silence when from all sides such clamors are raised against truth, is the part of a man either devoid of character or who entertains doubt as to the truth of what he professes to believe. In both cases such mode of behaving is base and is insulting to God, and both are incompatible with the salvation of mankind. This kind of conduct is profitable only to the enemies of the faith, for nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good. Moreover, want of vigor on the part of Christians is so much the more blameworthy, as not seldom little would be needed on their part to bring to naught false charges and refute erroneous opinions, and by always exerting themselves more strenuously they might reckon upon being successful. After all, no one can be prevented from putting forth that strength of soul which is the characteristic of true Christians, and very frequently by such display of courage our enemies lose heart and their designs are thwarted. Christians are, moreover, born for combat, whereof the greater the vehemence, the more assured, God aiding, the triumph: "Have confidence; I have overcome the world."[13] Nor is there any ground for alleging that Jesus Christ, the Guardian and Champion of the Church, needs not in any manner the help of men. Power certainly is not wanting to Him, but in His loving kindness He would assign to us a share in obtaining and applying the fruits of salvation procured through His grace. (Pope Leo XIII SAPIENTIAE CHRISTIANAE #14)

[CathMomof7]

This whole thing is just stupid, if you ask me.  But let's look at it for what it is.

Firstly, burning a book is nothing new or profane in itself.  Bible's are routinely burnt, especially if they have been blessed and are beyond repair.  During the early church, Bibles were burnt often to protect them from being profaned by the Pagans.  From a Catholic perspective, burning the Bible really doesn't mean that much on the surface.  We aren't obliged to read the Bible and we certainly don't worship it.  It is not the source of all Truth--that belongs to the Church herself.  So in essence, burning a book really doesn't mean anything.

Secondly, this guy is a Protestant extremist.  All Protestants equate the Bible as the source of all Truth.  At times, it takes precedence over God Himself.  Therefore, Protestants equate all other religions so-called "holy" books  in the same light.

Thirdly,  the Koran, as a worthy text, can be equated with any one of Anne Rice's novels or the Book of Mormon or the TV Guide.  It's all drivel, anyway, and certainly leads it's reader into grave sin and mortal danger.  

Fourthly, this man is angry.  Period.  He's angry that the Mohammedans are taking over the US.  He's angry that the media is making such a big deal out of the mosque issue.  He's angry at modernism and ecuмenism.  He's angry that religious "tolerance" has gotten the US into this mess.  He doesn't have benefit of the Sacrament of Penance.  So his anger has turned from justice to revenge.  He's not seeking justice, he wants all Mohammedans to feel the pain of disrespect and humiliation.  He is inciting the nation.  He's a sinner and needs our prayers.

Fifthly, the media is making it all possible.  Without them, who would even know about this guy and his "church" of 50?  Who would really care?  The media is making a circus out of it, simply to "prove" how intolerant Christians are--and how stupid.  Notice, however, how they are loving the reports from Catholic "leaders" who are proclaiming that burning the Koran is sinful.  

Ultimately the only thing that happens is confused people will continue to be turned off by Christianity.  Mohammedans will be really angry and will fight back.  Christians will continue to be marginalized.  The secularization of the US will get amped up a few notches and will proceed at full force.

Time to move on.

[twiceborn]

Seems pointless to me.

[Belloc]

Just looking at CNN's site with their top stories and there it is, plus reactions of anger and threatened violence, so either this Fundie is trying to incite fαℓѕє fℓαg, or is rather dumb....

[twiceborn]

Here is the statement from the Pontifical Council for Inter-religious Dialogue:

Wednesday, September 8, 2010
COMMUNIQUE CONCERNING "KORAN BURNING DAY"
VATICAN CITY, 8 SEP 2010 (VIS) - The Pontifical Council for Inter-religious Dialogue today released an English-language communique describing its "great concern at the news of the proposed 'Koran Burning Day' on the occasion of the anniversary of the 11 September tragic terrorist attacks in 2001 which resulted in the loss of many innocent lives and considerable material damage.

  "These deplorable acts of violence, in fact, cannot be counteracted by an outrageous and grave gesture against a book considered sacred by a religious community. Each religion, with its respective sacred books, places of worship and symbols, has the right to respect and protection. We are speaking about the respect to be accorded the dignity of the person who is an adherent of that religion and his/her free choice in religious matters.

  "The reflection which necessarily should be fostered on the occasion of the remembrance of 11 September would be, first of all, to offer our deep sentiments of solidarity with those who were struck by these horrendous terrorist attacks. To this feeling of solidarity we join our prayers for them and their loved ones who lost their lives.

  "Each religious leader and believer is also called to renew the firm condemnation of all forms of violence, in particular those committed in the name of religion. Pope John Paul II affirmed: 'Recourse to violence in the name of religious belief is a perversion of the very teachings of the major religions' (address to the new ambassador of Pakistan, 16 December 1999). His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI similarly expressed, 'violence as a response to offences can never be justified, for this type of response is incompatible with the sacred principles of religion' (address of His Holiness Benedict XVI, to the new ambassador of Morocco, 6 February 2006)".

http://visnews-en.blogspot.com/2010/09/communique-concerning-koran-burning-day.html

...

Is it me or there is something seriously wrong with the above?

[Cristian]

wow, give up why dont you

Give up what and why? I know the Catholic Church will triumph at the end... why giving up a battle I know we will win?

...the answer is fairly simple, and I do not obsess with "time of gentiles is over", so what then? hide in a bunker? dont even try to spread the faith? curl up, fetal and die? many rapturists taht the opinion, that we can do nothing and heck, lets wait for the rapture, so..

Wheater you obsess or not with the time of the gentiles, this seems to be a fact, a quite telling fact...

I never said or even implied we have to hide or not to spread the faith.

Of which rapture are you talking about?

1. santification of self

Agree!

2. know your faith, in and out

Agree!

3. shre it with others when able to, do so most of the time in a non-confrontational way-take the time to feel out and know what your opponent is thinking and beleiving.Look for ways to plant the seeds and water, the Holy Ghost will harvest and grow.

I totally agree!

4. be approachable, remember, attacking, belittling and smugness does NOT win over converts from without...

I can`t agree anymore my friend!

5. Teach the principles of Catholic thought, read books on the Catholic social order (IHS press has some good ones, also, books by Fr. Fahey, Ouset and others).

Thanks for the advice... it`s that right now I`m reading something else and I don`t have time to read those books (I`m not saying I don`t need them, just that I`ve other priorities right now)

6. Dont settle, the Faith is to imbue every facet of life-economics, govt, foreign policy,etc,etc.
7. work toward bringing the nation in line with Catholic teaching, using what skills nad station in life you have-many of our teachings are gaining acceptance with non-Catholics, push for that, they need not be Catholic at the time to support a Catholic stance, use that.

Well I think the most we can do is points 1 to 5. I don`t see how a country may convert to Catholicism right now. First we need a Pope, or if you prefer someone at Rome who doesn`t teach things contrary to the Catholic principles such as religious liberty etc.

I think, to borrow Cardinal Billot`s words "we can have Catholic individuals but not Catholic States" in these times of apostasy.

The "there is no hop, it is a lost cause" arguement is not acceptable to me,

It depends what you mean by "it is a lost cause". If Our Lord and St. Paul tell us the nations will abjure the faith and you are seeing them doing that, what do you want to do? It`s a fact, wheater we like it or not. And I don`t see in public revelation any kind of restoration after the apostasy. I know there are some who thinks otherwise and I hope I be wrong!

that is never used in fighting gun control, abortion, Obama, Democrats, etc,etc-no Catholic normally says "why fight abortion, it is a lost cause"....

How can we fight abortion other than by your point 1 to 5?

so why, then, is it a lost cause to re-Catholicize the world and ones nation?

You can try it, but you should know there is a possibility based on public revelation that that will no be possible.

start with self, then family, friends and move outward-

Agree, but I doubt you can go any further beyond family and friends...

lastly, yeah, I noticed we are in apostasy-so what? during Roman persecutions, the Church thrived and grew.

The great apostasy and the firsts persecutions are 2 totally different things!

my friend, God rewards the effort, not the outcome!!

Yes, or as priest used to say, God doesn`t ask us to defeat but rather "not to be defeat"!

Thanks for listening.Lets us pray and owrk for each other, recalling:
1 Peter 3:15 :But sanctify the Lord Christ in your hearts, being ready always to satisfy every one that asketh you a reason of that hope which is in you

I have always loved this sentence of St. Peter! Thanks

as St. Thomas maintains: "Each one is under obligation to show forth his faith, either to instruct and encourage others of the faithful, or to repel the attacks of unbelievers.''[12]

Well I hope this doesn`t mean I have to go with a megaphone right now to the street saying things like: "Religious liberty is a freedom of perdition", "there is but one God, which is the one the Catholic Church worships" etc, etc, etc  :wink:

In Christ,

Cristian

[Cristian]

BTW I think too all this about burning the Koran is completelly stupid...

[Alexandria]

Here is the statement from the Pontifical Council for Inter-religious Dialogue:

Wednesday, September 8, 2010
COMMUNIQUE CONCERNING "KORAN BURNING DAY"
VATICAN CITY, 8 SEP 2010 (VIS) - The Pontifical Council for Inter-religious Dialogue today released an English-language communique describing its "great concern at the news of the proposed 'Koran Burning Day' on the occasion of the anniversary of the 11 September tragic terrorist attacks in 2001 which resulted in the loss of many innocent lives and considerable material damage.

  "These deplorable acts of violence, in fact, cannot be counteracted by an outrageous and grave gesture against a book considered sacred by a religious community. Each religion, with its respective sacred books, places of worship and symbols, has the right to respect and protection. We are speaking about the respect to be accorded the dignity of the person who is an adherent of that religion and his/her free choice in religious matters.

  "The reflection which necessarily should be fostered on the occasion of the remembrance of 11 September would be, first of all, to offer our deep sentiments of solidarity with those who were struck by these horrendous terrorist attacks. To this feeling of solidarity we join our prayers for them and their loved ones who lost their lives.

  "Each religious leader and believer is also called to renew the firm condemnation of all forms of violence, in particular those committed in the name of religion. Pope John Paul II affirmed: 'Recourse to violence in the name of religious belief is a perversion of the very teachings of the major religions' (address to the new ambassador of Pakistan, 16 December 1999). His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI similarly expressed, 'violence as a response to offences can never be justified, for this type of response is incompatible with the sacred principles of religion' (address of His Holiness Benedict XVI, to the new ambassador of Morocco, 6 February 2006)".

http://visnews-en.blogspot.com/2010/09/communique-concerning-koran-burning-day.html

...

Is it me or there is something seriously wrong with the above?

Who can stand to read this mamby-pamby drivel anymore?  I have no more patience left for it.  

Error has rights .  Get with the program everyone!

[Emerentiana]

wow, give up why dont you...the answer is fairly simple, and I do not obsess with "time of gentiles is over", so what then? hide in a bunker? dont even try to spread the faith? curl up, fetal and die? many rapturists taht the opinion, that we can do nothing and heck, lets wait for the rapture, so..

Easy:

1. santification of self
2. know your faith, in and out
3. shre it with others when able to, do so most of the time in a non-confrontational way-take the time to feel out and know what your opponent is thinking and beleiving.Look for ways to plant the seeds and water, the Holy Ghost will harvest and grow.
4. be approachable, remember, attacking, belittling and smugness does NOT win over converts from without...
5. Teach the principles of Catholic thought, read books on the Catholic social order (IHS press has some good ones, also, books by Fr. Fahey, Ouset and others).
6. Dont settle, the Faith is to imbue every facet of life-economics, govt, foreign policy,etc,etc.
7. work toward bringing the nation in line with Catholic teaching, using what skills nad station in life you have-many of our teachings are gaining acceptance with non-Catholics, push for that, they need not be Catholic at the time to support a Catholic stance, use that.

The "there is no hop, it is a lost cause" arguement is not acceptable to me, that is never used in fighting gun control, abortion, Obama, Democrats, etc,etc-no Catholic normally says "why fight abortion, it is a lost cause"....so why, then, is it a lost cause to re-Catholicize the world and ones nation? start with self, then family, friends and move outward-dont wait for orders from HQ, your pirests and bishops often will remain silent and/or inept, move forward.

lastly, yeah, I noticed we are in apostasy-so what? during Roman persecutions, the Church thrived and grew. I am 39, have lived through a lot, beleive me and saw/heard a lot, unlike many, did not just op my head out of the ground and wonder "what the heck happened". I know that the answer to our problems is not to scape-goat Muslims, Obama, Democrats or any other Goldstein "them". It is to re-Catholicize the world and yes, it takes prayer and action. They go hand in hand.....hope this gets a start at least, sorry, but I tend to read a lot and where some people get worked up over star spangled banner and the USA flag, I get excited about the Catholic Social Order and what could be, not what is right now...aim high, my friend, God rewards the effort, not the outcome!!

Michael Peroutka, a former Catholic, has a good saying "we plant, we water, teh harvest is up to God, but we must plow our row". Lets pray for that and for him to return to the Fide!.

Meanwhile, lets you and I continue down the path, our souls, famililes,communities and nations require that we do this. Real patriotism  is like real chairty, proclaiming and promoting the truth, which is Christ, which is His one and only Church.

Thanks for listening.Lets us pray and owrk for each other, recalling:
1 Peter 3:15 :But sanctify the Lord Christ in your hearts, being ready always to satisfy every one that asketh you a reason of that hope which is in you

and:

as St. Thomas maintains: "Each one is under obligation to show forth his faith, either to instruct and encourage others of the faithful, or to repel the attacks of unbelievers.''[12] To recoil before an enemy, or to keep silence when from all sides such clamors are raised against truth, is the part of a man either devoid of character or who entertains doubt as to the truth of what he professes to believe. In both cases such mode of behaving is base and is insulting to God, and both are incompatible with the salvation of mankind. This kind of conduct is profitable only to the enemies of the faith, for nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good. Moreover, want of vigor on the part of Christians is so much the more blameworthy, as not seldom little would be needed on their part to bring to naught false charges and refute erroneous opinions, and by always exerting themselves more strenuously they might reckon upon being successful. After all, no one can be prevented from putting forth that strength of soul which is the characteristic of true Christians, and very frequently by such display of courage our enemies lose heart and their designs are thwarted. Christians are, moreover, born for combat, whereof the greater the vehemence, the more assured, God aiding, the triumph: "Have confidence; I have overcome the world."[13] Nor is there any ground for alleging that Jesus Christ, the Guardian and Champion of the Church, needs not in any manner the help of men. Power certainly is not wanting to Him, but in His loving kindness He would assign to us a share in obtaining and applying the fruits of salvation procured through His grace. (Pope Leo XIII SAPIENTIAE CHRISTIANAE #14)

A great post, Belloc!  How very true! :applause:

[gladius_veritatis]

This is just another distraction for the mindless, spineless masses, designed to create the emotional support for even more unjust war.

As for burning books, St. Paul did so in Greece -- nuff said.

[gladius_veritatis]

Who can stand to read this mamby-pamby drivel anymore?

Yeah, but I am sure the Holy Father did not read every word and approve this, so... :wink: