Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => General Discussion => Topic started by: sedevacantist on February 17, 2018, 01:21:57 PM
-
I've been told by someone (who's opinion I hold in high regard) that my attack on the Dimonds was unwarranted, and unnecessary - that is, as far as the inner workings of the monastery go. As painful as it is to admit, I believe he's right. And so I would like to apologize to any of their fans who were upset with my comments. I have to confess that they were fueled by a dislike for the Dimonds, personally. The reason being that I've tried several times to draw their attention to contradictions within their writings, and was only met with verbal abuse. I'm guessing it came from Brother Peter, but I'm not sure. Nevertheless, this wouldn't have warranted attacking them publicly. And so, again, I apologize to their fans. (and to the Dimonds themselves).
-
Don't feel so very bad - Fr. Wathen felt compelled to warn people about them.
This gathers some of what he had to say -
http://www.23rdstreet.com/mhfm/NoteAboutTheDimondBrothers.aspx
-
I've been told by someone (who's opinion I hold in high regard) that my attack on the Dimonds was unwarranted, and unnecessary - that is, as far as the inner workings of the monastery go. As painful as it is to admit, I believe he's right. And so I would like to apologize to any of their fans who were upset with my comments. I have to confess that they were fueled by a dislike for the Dimonds, personally. The reason being that I've tried several times to draw their attention to contradictions within their writings, and was only met with verbal abuse. I'm guessing it came from Brother Peter, but I'm not sure. Nevertheless, this wouldn't have warranted attacking them publicly. And so, again, I apologize to their fans. (and to the Dimonds themselves).
I take offense to the term "fans", when it should be stated as fellow Catholics. You are implicating, Catholics as groupies, which is wrong. There are no contradictions with their writings. You should be apologizing to the Brothers themselves, you publicly bore false witness against them, which is a mortal sin.
You demonstrate a lot of pride and hatred inside you.
I will also say that anyone telling the truth and is being attacked, they should be defended vigorously. Otherwise evil triumphs, while people stand around and do nothing.
-
I take offense to the term "fans", when it should be stated as fellow Catholics. You are implicating, Catholics as groupies, which is wrong.
So he used the word "fans." You can snowflake out all you want, but there are Catholics who support them and those that don't. Those that do support them would fall into the definition of "fans" The Diamond Brothers draw hard and fast line against anything that doesn't fall into the model of Catholicism. Its really the pot calling the kettle black. Diamond are allowed to call other Catholics apostates, heretics, etc and categorize and use derisive language against other traditional movements holding onto the vestiges of Catholicism in this modern post Vatican II world, but some guy can't call the people who support their edgy video/publication fans...come on now.
There are no contradictions with their writings.
Well there are youtube videos and articles that detail otherwise.
You should be apologizing to the Brothers themselves
So this guy has beef with them. Do you go through all the forums and start snowing on all the negative posts against the Diamond Brothers?
you publicly bore false witness against them, which is a mortal sin.
I can't see this being a mortal sin...Is a lie by itself a mortal sin? Did he know it was a mortal sin going into it? Did he actually go through with it know it to be a mortal? Lastly, what he said maybe been wrong, but did he believe to be true, or did knowingly lie.
Look Luke, I'm not your father....sorry couldn't resist....The guy was publicly apologizing. If you want to point out fault, error and lies, then I invite you (https://www.cathinfo.com/the-earth-god-made-flat-earth-geocentrism/)here (https://www.cathinfo.com/the-earth-god-made-flat-earth-geocentrism/)
-
I wouldn't say that being in the same category as Fr. Wathen shouldn't make someone feel "so very bad". His man-made doctrine of "once a Catholic, always a Catholic" is heretical.
The point was that there are others saying to beware of the Dimonds. Including this hero Catholic priest. Don't derail the thread but pick up your argument/complaint at the thread titled for it. I would like to see what you have to say.
-
So he used the word "fans." You can snowflake out all you want, but there are Catholics who support them and those that don't. Those that do support them would fall into the definition of "fans" The Diamond Brothers draw hard and fast line against anything that doesn't fall into the model of Catholicism. Its really the pot calling the kettle black. Diamond are allowed to call other Catholics apostates, heretics, etc and categorize and use derisive language against other traditional movements holding onto the vestiges of Catholicism in this modern post Vatican II world, but some guy can't call the people who support their edgy video/publication fans...come on now.
Well there are youtube videos and articles that detail otherwise.
So this guy has beef with them. Do you go through all the forums and start snowing on all the negative posts against the Diamond Brothers?
I can't see this being a mortal sin...Is a lie by itself a mortal sin? Did he know it was a mortal sin going into it? Did he actually go through with it know it to be a mortal? Lastly, what he said maybe been wrong, but did he believe to be true, or did knowingly lie.
Look Luke, I'm not your father....sorry couldn't resist....The guy was publicly apologizing. If you want to point out fault, error and lies, then I invite you (https://www.cathinfo.com/the-earth-god-made-flat-earth-geocentrism/)here (https://www.cathinfo.com/the-earth-god-made-flat-earth-geocentrism/)
RoughAshlar, it seems that you see life as shades of gray and not black and white, kind of like a lukewarm guy, pick and choose. God is not that way. If there is one thing that is so true, about most accusers, who accuse, they never provide the evidence for what they are accusing about. What videos and articles are you talking about? Provide them and then bring forward the relevant evidence that refutes them. Don't you think that is fair??
You asked if a lie is a mortal sin? If you are Catholic, you should know that it is.
Apocalypse 21:8 … and all liars, they shall have their portion in the pool burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
Then you go on to excuse his behavior, with the heresy invincible ignorance. HIS ENTIRE THREAD WAS HEARSAY, THIRD PARTY!
Ecclesiasticus 28:16, 18, 20 The tongue of a third person hath disquieted many, … It hath cut in pieces the forces of people, … He that hearkeneth to it, shall never have rest, neither shall he have a friend in whom he may repose.
You seem to have no problem with this behavior.
-
I am not a fan of calling those who agree on the Dogmatic issues that the Dimonds defend...fans. I believe they are Catholic. I am not a fanatic for them. I don't even know them, but since we can only judge someone by what we know, I appreciate their work defending the Faith.
I think your apology seemed weird and a bit passive-aggressive. It seems like a dig at those who agree with them on these different issues as well.
My opinion. Let me know if I'm wrong.
I'm just used to referring to their followers as "fans"... I don't mean to offend. I'll be more careful.
-
This part I'm confused about. What are you guessing came from Brother Peter?
The scathing emails that I received from the Dimonds seemed to me to have come from Brother Peter. My source insured me that it was him.
-
I take offense to the term "fans", when it should be stated as fellow Catholics. You are implicating, Catholics as groupies, which is wrong. There are no contradictions with their writings. You should be apologizing to the Brothers themselves, you publicly bore false witness against them, which is a mortal sin.
You demonstrate a lot of pride and hatred inside you.
I will also say that anyone telling the truth and is being attacked, they should be defended vigorously. Otherwise evil triumphs, while people stand around and do nothing.
The reason I'm in the habit of referring to their followers as "Fans" is because they tend to believe everything the Dimonds tell them - without questioning - no matter how convoluted it is. This is an attitude indicative of a "fan", and not simply another Catholic.
-
I take offense to the term "fans", when it should be stated as fellow Catholics. You are implicating, Catholics as groupies, which is wrong. There are no contradictions with their writings. You should be apologizing to the Brothers themselves, you publicly bore false witness against them, which is a mortal sin.
You demonstrate a lot of pride and hatred inside you.
I will also say that anyone telling the truth and is being attacked, they should be defended vigorously. Otherwise evil triumphs, while people stand around and do nothing.
Nothing I said was a lie. My apology concerns my remorse over actually publicly slamming their personal life at the monastery. That's all. Everything I wrote is the truth - and I would stake my life on it. I trust my source implicitly, and know him not to be a liar.
-
RoughAshlar, it seems that you see life as shades of gray and not black and white, kind of like a lukewarm guy, pick and choose. God is not that way. If there is one thing that is so true, about most accusers, who accuse, they never provide the evidence for what they are accusing about. What videos and articles are you talking about? Provide them and then bring forward the relevant evidence that refutes them. Don't you think that is fair??
You asked if a lie is a mortal sin? If you are Catholic, you should know that it is.
Apocalypse 21:8 … and all liars, they shall have their portion in the pool burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
Then you go on to excuse his behavior, with the heresy invincible ignorance. HIS ENTIRE THREAD WAS HEARSAY, THIRD PARTY!
Ecclesiasticus 28:16, 18, 20 The tongue of a third person hath disquieted many, … It hath cut in pieces the forces of people, … He that hearkeneth to it, shall never have rest, neither shall he have a friend in whom he may repose.
You seem to have no problem with this behavior.
Actually you got me, I do see things in shades of grey. Life isn't as simple as black and white, and every person on this forum or on this earth for that matter is shaped by a set of circuмstances, choices, and consequences. If everything was black and white, there would be no need to discuss anything on a forum.
There are very few absolutes. You said, with no equivocation, There are no contradictions with the Diamond Brother's writings. That's a pretty black and white statement. Instead I googled "Diamond Brothers contradictions" and reported that there were already videos and sites that claim there are. I really have zero interest in watching/reading them and fact checking. To be honest I skimmed Sede's post. I am not defending what he wrote, but I do know that I view much of the Diamond Brother's videos as extreme. So he has beef with it. Someone called him on it. He made a new post and gave a so-so apology. My point was not to defend what he wrote, its that you were kicking him while he was making a public apology.
There are people on this forum that argue different sides about many subjects. Some are right and some are wrong. Some its turns out are partially right. If he was arguing something, or using someone else's argument (false or not)(also which is done here quite often), that he believes is correct, is it that a lie and a mortal sin on his part? I took issue with you declaring his post was a mortal sin. I just figured that is between him and his confessor, not between him and a mighty keyboard warrior.
I asked if it was a mortal sin, simply because there are parameters between venial and mortal. Lies, much like a lot of other sins, can occur with gradation between mortal and venial. Next time my 7 year old niece tells me that she finished her supper when she really didn't, I'll but sure to tell her with all the Bold, Italics and Underlining I can muster.... Apocalypse 21:8 … and all liars, they shall have their portion in the pool burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
-
I've been told by someone (who's opinion I hold in high regard) that my attack on the Dimonds was unwarranted, and unnecessary - that is, as far as the inner workings of the monastery go. As painful as it is to admit, I believe he's right. And so I would like to apologize to any of their fans who were upset with my comments. I have to confess that they were fueled by a dislike for the Dimonds, personally. The reason being that I've tried several times to draw their attention to contradictions within their writings, and was only met with verbal abuse. I'm guessing it came from Brother Peter, but I'm not sure. Nevertheless, this wouldn't have warranted attacking them publicly. And so, again, I apologize to their fans. (and to the Dimonds themselves).
That's very classy of you, and very honest to admit that your comments were at least partly motivated by a personal dislike for them. I've had the Dimonds write to me directly and excoriate me as a heretic ... despite the fact that I agree with MOST of their theological positions ... because I disagreed with a few of them. I think that they have made some grave errors, and am particularly turned off by their bitter zeal and by their denunciation of anyone who disagrees with them as heretics. But they do a lot of good also. Their biography of Padre Pio is one of the best I've ever read, and their video on Hell is tremendous. If every Catholic watched the video once a week, very few of them would be lost. Their apologetic work proving Catholicism from (the Protestant translation of) the Bible is fantastic. I agree with their take on NFP. I also personally do not believe in BoD, but I reject their characterization of it as heresy. I don't believe that they understand the theological notes (different degrees of certainty). Some of their supporting arguments are logically faulty. I disagree with their dogmatic sedevacantism, even though I lean sedevacantist myself.
-
I'm just used to referring to their followers as "fans"... I don't mean to offend. I'll be more careful.
Yeah, that's the way I took your use of the word when I read it. It's a lot easier just to say "fan" than to say "those who agree with the Dimonds' theological positions". But I don't like "followers" either. There's too much of that kind of thing all over the place in Traditional Catholicism. I've been called one of their "followers" because I agree with them on some things ... even though I disagreed with them on others. I don't slavishly follow things that they say without examining them and coming to my own conclusions about them. Are there SOME who follow them this way? Sure, I've run into a few Dimond "ditto-heads". But then I've seen people have the same attitude towards just about EVERY group ... from the Pfeiffer cult to the Resistance to SSPX to pretty much every other group.
-
The scathing emails that I received from the Dimonds seemed to me to have come from Brother Peter. My source insured me that it was him.
Yeah, I've received a few of these also. I don't let such things bother me, but I do admit that I found the tone of some of his e-mail to be disturbing.
-
Actually you got me, I do see things in shades of grey. Life isn't as simple as black and white, and every person on this forum or on this earth for that matter is shaped by a set of circuмstances, choices, and consequences. If everything was black and white, there would be no need to discuss anything on a forum.
There are very few absolutes. You said, with no equivocation, There are no contradictions with the Diamond Brother's writings. That's a pretty black and white statement. Instead I googled "Diamond Brothers contradictions" and reported that there were already videos and sites that claim there are. I really have zero interest in watching/reading them and fact checking. To be honest I skimmed Sede's post. I am not defending what he wrote, but I do know that I view much of the Diamond Brother's videos as extreme. So he has beef with it. Someone called him on it. He made a new post and gave a so-so apology. My point was not to defend what he wrote, its that you were kicking him while he was making a public apology.
There are people on this forum that argue different sides about many subjects. Some are right and some are wrong. Some its turns out are partially right. If he was arguing something, or using someone else's argument (false or not)(also which is done here quite often), that he believes is correct, is it that a lie and a mortal sin on his part? I took issue with you declaring his post was a mortal sin. I just figured that is between him and his confessor, not between him and a mighty keyboard warrior.
I asked if it was a mortal sin, simply because there are parameters between venial and mortal. Lies, much like a lot of other sins, can occur with gradation between mortal and venial. Next time my 7 year old niece tells me that she finished her supper when she really didn't, I'll but sure to tell her with all the Bold, Italics and Underlining I can muster.... Apocalypse 21:8 … and all liars, they shall have their portion in the pool burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
Actually, life is black and white. Good and bad, God and the devil, truth and the lie, Heaven and Hell. And it is interesting that you mentioned choices! You say that you see things as gray, did you know that the color gray, is a mix of black and white?
1 Corinthians 10:21 You cannot drink the chalice of the Lord, and the chalice of devils: you cannot be partakers of the table of the Lord, and of the table of devils.
That is why I called you a lukewarm guy, you are not consistent in the temperature of truth, you have no problem mixing truth with lies, which is indicative of being lukewarm. You tolerate lies. You condone it and except this for you niece.
Apocalypse 3:15-17 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold, nor hot. I would thou wert cold, or hot. But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, nor hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest: I am rich, and made wealthy, and have need of nothing: and knowest not, that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.
Verse 17 describes a man who thinks that he has the Catholic Faith but in reality he doesn't, he is blind and naked.
You think little lies are of no consequence, when in fact, it is a pollutant.
Galatians 5:9 A little leaven corrupteth the whole lump.
Light has no part with darkness.
2 Corinthians 6:14-15 Bear not the yoke with unbelievers. For what participation hath justice with injustice? Or what fellowship hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? Or what part hath the faithful with the unbeliever?
Am I wrong for saying what you admit? Are you mad at me for saying this?
-
You really seem to be the Westboro version of Hallmark cards. All kidding aside bud, I'm impressed in your ability to produce quotes for any statement or occasion.
Am I mad? I'm not sure what there is to get upset about. Why would I get upset?
I like to clarify in case you misread my last two posts. I personally detest lying and find it sinful in the eyes of God and a destructive to self and to society as a whole. I never said that lying was acceptable or of little consequence. When you public proclaimed that Sede sat on a throne of lies and was in mortal sin.... I asked if it was 1) if every lie was a mortal sin and 2)If a person repeats something they believe to be true, does that count as a mortal sin lie? 3) I pointed out there were requirements to make a sin mortal. Person asking question on forum. It happens here quite often.
As far as my niece goes....no we don't condone and accept her lying as you have accused...and she gets scolded or punished for it depending on the severity of the lie...but I don't threaten her with a second death of burning pools, like you quoted, because she didn't finish her vegetables.
-
You really seem to be the Westboro version of Hallmark cards. All kidding aside bud, I'm impressed in your ability to produce quotes for any statement or occasion.
Am I mad? I'm not sure what there is to get upset about. Why would I get upset?
I like to clarify in case you misread my last two posts. I personally detest lying and find it sinful in the eyes of God and a destructive to self and to society as a whole. I never said that lying was acceptable or of little consequence. When you public proclaimed that Sede sat on a throne of lies and was in mortal sin.... I asked if it was 1) if every lie was a mortal sin and 2)If a person repeats something they believe to be true, does that count as a mortal sin lie? 3) I pointed out there were requirements to make a sin mortal. Person asking question on forum. It happens here quite often.
As far as my niece goes....no we don't condone and accept her lying as you have accused...and she gets scolded or punished for it depending on the severity of the lie...but I don't threaten her with a second death of burning pools, like you quoted, because she didn't finish her vegetables.
… Westboro version …
I guess you are not a fan of the Catholic bible? The bible did not originate with Martin Luther.
"Person asking question on forum. It happens here quite often."
I just figured, that concerning lies being a mortal sin and commonly known, and if you are Catholic, that you would have known that.
"… in your ability to produce quotes for any statement or occasion."
Don't you think that it is good to be able to support, the things that a person is speaking about?
"no we don't condone and accept her lying as you have accused"
No thats a lie, I didn't accuse your niece, you, publicly admitted that she did lie. You said the "next time", which means there was a first time.
"Next time my 7 year old niece tells me that she finished her supper when she really didn't, I'll but sure to tell her with all the Bold, Italics and Underlining I can muster.... Apocalypse 21:8 … and all liars, they shall have their portion in the pool burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
-
I would very much appreciate any errors that you have found in the Dimond's material. I know they have a lot of opinions on prophecy, but that is just opinion. I am looking for errors they have on matters of faith or morals. I can't find any at all. Everyone who has tried to "debunk" them, has fallen miserably short (and rather embarrassingly). This French guy, who is the biggest voice against them, ended up converting to Orthodoxy! Clearly this guy is completely out to lunch. He has the most ridiculous complaints, one of which being that saying 15 decades of the rosary is a burden no one can bear (30 minutes a day to God is too much?)..and that the Dimonds don't have any spiritual "after care" once they have "converted someone." For heavens' sake, the brothers are pastors. They are just editors and researchers, and MONKS! They don't have a parish. I really really am looking for errors and I just can't find any.