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Author Topic: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God  (Read 5857 times)

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Offline cassini

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Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2019, 12:13:07 PM »
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  • There is an exhaustive THEOLOGICAL treatment of Geocentrism on the Dimond brothers website:
    .
    https://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/Geocentrism.pdf
    ,
    Their conclusion is that Geocentrism is NOT an infallible teaching of the Church and
    they give strong evidence and arguments for this.
    .
    From the SCIENTIFIC point of view, there are several strong arguments against Geocentrism:
    .
    1. The Earth does not have enough gravity to keep the Sun in orbit around the Earth and
    there is NO other know measurable force which can keep the Sun in orbit.
    .
    2. Neptune would have to be traveling at a velocity faster than the speed of light to circle
    the Earth in 24 hours.  The Andromeda galaxy would have to be moving at 6 million times the
    speed of light to circle the Earth in 24 hours.  
    .
    3. Stellar Parallax has been measured by modern telescopes.  The Geocentrism theory has
    no explanation how this can happen.  The Heliocentrism theory has no problem with Stellar
    Parallax.
    .
    I've heard the Geocentrism arguments about Aether, Electromagnatism, and God-Can-Do-It,
    but one must realize that Geocentrists cannot understand gravity, celestial mechanics or
    Stellar Parallax.  Here is an explanation of Stellar Parallax:
    .
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_parallax
    .
    I did not plan to divert this thread into a Geocentric argument, but some people keep harping
    on Geocentrism and telling lies about it.  Lies should be exposed as such.
    .
    If you cannot understand Stellar Parallax and cannot understand that telescopes in 1633 were
    not capable of measuring Stellar Parallax, then don't tell me I'm wrong, and don't expect me
    to reply to your lies (er ... I mean opinions :-*)
    .

    I have read the Dimond Brothers attempt to render the 1616 and 1633 decrees no worth the paper they were recorded on. 'Their conclusion is that Geocentrism is NOT an infallible teaching of the Church.' you say and obviously believe. So, here we have the Protestant version of theology, thinking they know more than the judgement of Rome.
    When Pope Urban VIII put Galileo on trial for heresy in 1633, on what grounds did he base his prosecution? Can a pope try a man for a heresy that did not exist? When Urban VIII dictated the grounds of the heresy: 'since an opinion can in no manner be probable which has been declared, and defined to be, contrary to the divine Scripture,' was he chancing his arm? The sentence against Galileo was worded like this: “Invoking, then, the most holy Name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and that of His most glorious Mother Mary ever Virgin, by this our definitive sentence we say, pronounce, judge, and declare, that you, the said Galileo, on account of these things proved against you by docuмentary evidence, and which have been confessed by you as aforesaid, have rendered yourself to this Holy Office vehemently suspected of heresy, that is, of having believed and held a doctrine which is false and contrary to the sacred and divine Scriptures -to wit, that the sun is in the centre of the world, and that it does not move from east to west, and that the Earth moves, and is not the centre of the universe; and that an opinion can be held and defended as probable after it has been declared and defined to be contrary to Holy Scripture."

    Now are you and the Dimond Brothers saying you guys know better that Rome. But more than that for the Dimond Brothers did not know of a docuмent discovered in the Secret Archives in Rome that showed the basis on which that imprimatur was granted to Settele's heliocentric book in 1820.
    This docuмent was first published by Maffei in 1987 and in Brandsmiller and Greipi in 1992. in this docuмent, given to the consultants and Pope Pius VII in 1720, was a confirmation that the 1616 dercree was irreversible/non reformable. that is infallible.

    Now it is important to note all Catholic heliocentrists argue the 1616 and 1633 decrees 'were not infallible.' They think that is enough to eliminate all the conditions of the Church's life long teaching that the Scriptures REVEAL a geocentric Earth and that all the Fathers agree with this revelation. They think their 'it was not infallible' will wash away the fact that the Catholic Church directed all Catholics to hold this as a truth or suffer self-excommunication. Are you joking Dimond brothers? Are you joking Apollo? Is that how you think the divinely guided Catholic Church operates, defining as heretical something that was never heretical but true?

    All these accusations against the geocentrism of Scripture, against the Sacred Doctrine of Geocentrism begun by a convert of St Paul, continued by Peter Lombard, St Thomas Aquinas and finally Cardinal Robertt Bellarmine, came about when the Freemasons of the Royal Society put out the lie that heliocentrism was proven.

    Thus the issue became one of the greatest tests of faith ever put to man, Catholic FAITH in the Fathers and Decrees of 1616 and 1633, or faith in the fact that science proved the Church wrong.
    As for your science Apollo, it is a joke. If heliocentrism was proven correct, why did science announce to the world from 1905 that relativity prevails. Do you even understand what relativity means? It means heliocentrism was never proven by Newton, not by stellar parallax, or anything else, that geocentrism was never proven wrong, that the Sacred Doctrine of Geocentrism was never proven wrong, that the interpretation of all the Fathers was never proven wrong, that the 1616 and 1633 decrees were never proven wrong.



    Offline apollo

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    Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
    « Reply #31 on: July 08, 2019, 12:19:54 PM »
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  • Call it what you want, but it does NOT prove heliocentrism.
    .
    Stellar Parallax certainly does prove Heliocentrism.  
    Geocentrism has no explanation for Stellar Parallax.
    Do you know what it is ?  If the Earth is the center
    of the universe, then Stellar Parallax cannot exist,
    but is does exist and has been measured with modern
    telescopes.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
    « Reply #32 on: July 08, 2019, 12:19:57 PM »
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  • See above web pages to learn that the center of the solar system is close to the
    center of the Sun.  

    Close but no cigar.  Sometimes this BARYCENTER is outside the actual sun and the sun is revolving around it.  And that's only within the framework of the solar system, not the entire universe.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
    « Reply #33 on: July 08, 2019, 12:21:04 PM »
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  • .
    Stellar Parallax certainly does prove Heliocentrism.  
    Geocentrism has no explanation for Stellar Parallax.
    Do you know what it is ?  

    Changing the subject now that your argument from gravity has been thoroughly refuted.

    When you shift from one argument to a different one after the first has been refuted, that's a slam-dunk case of bad will.  You already have a pre-determined conclusion and are simply looking for reasons to back it up.

    Offline apollo

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    Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
    « Reply #34 on: July 08, 2019, 12:24:27 PM »
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  • Changing the subject now that your argument from gravity has been thoroughly refuted.

    When you shift from one argument to a different one after the first has been refuted, that's a slam-dunk case of bad will.  You already have a pre-determined conclusion and are simply looking for reasons to back it up.
    FU2, asshole.
    You have proved nothing, reject the facts and resort to ad hominem attacks.
    .
    Find me a larger body that orbits a smaller body, asshole, or shut up.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
    « Reply #35 on: July 08, 2019, 12:28:23 PM »
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  • FU2, asshole.
    You have proved nothing, reject the facts and resort to ad hominem attacks.
    .
    Find me a larger body that orbits a smaller body, asshole, or shut up.

    So the demonic sun god comes to the surface.  Further proof of bad will.

    We just explained to you several times, idiot, that it is not true that a smaller body orbits a larger body, nor does the larger body orbit the smaller one, but rather that BOTH bodies orbit the center of mass between the two bodies.  What part of this doesn't sink into your skull?  This is basic Newtonian physics that no one disputes.

    Offline apollo

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    Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
    « Reply #36 on: July 08, 2019, 12:28:39 PM »
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  • Changing the subject now that your argument from gravity has been thoroughly refuted.

    When you shift from one argument to a different one after the first has been refuted, that's a slam-dunk case of bad will.  You already have a pre-determined conclusion and are simply looking for reasons to back it up.
    .
    Maybe this is why Fr Hewko does not recommend CathInfo to people.

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
    « Reply #37 on: July 08, 2019, 12:29:02 PM »
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  • .
    https://socratic.org/questions/where-is-the-center-of-mass-of-the-solar-system
    .
    http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/centermass.htm
    .
    See above web pages to learn that the center of the solar system is close to the
    center of the Sun.  
    .
    And stop with the ad hominem attack.  it proves nothing.
    .
    Are you still looking for a larger body that orbits a smaller body in the universe ?
    You'll be looking for the rest of your life.  
    .
    The barycenter is negligible  when talking about the Earth-Sun relationship.  
    The Sun's mass is 333,000 times the mass of the Earth.
    You're acting as if the Sun and the Earth are the only two masses in the Universe. Nonsense. The barycentre of the Universe as a whole does not have to be in its point of greatest mass, it could even be at a point with 0 mass. So arguing from the mass of an individual does not prove where the centre of masses OF THE UNIVERSE is.

    Also we only know the Sun's mass from calculations in a Heliocentric model. Using a mass obtained from a model to try and prove that model is circular reasoning. 


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
    « Reply #38 on: July 08, 2019, 12:29:53 PM »
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  • .
    Maybe this is why Fr Hewko does not recommend CathInfo to people.

    So you cite my relatively-tame post and not your own demonic profanity-laced tirade?

    Offline apollo

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    Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
    « Reply #39 on: July 08, 2019, 12:30:49 PM »
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  • So the demonic sun god comes to the surface.  Further proof of bad will.

    We just explained to you several times, idiot, that it is not true that a smaller body orbits a larger body, nor does the larger body orbit the smaller one, but rather that BOTH bodies orbit the center of mass between the two bodies.  What part of this doesn't sink into your skull?  This is basic Newtonian physics that no one disputes.
    .
    And when the larger body is 333,000 times the mass of the smaller body, the barycenter is inside the larger body.
    .
    What part of this do you not understand, you demon possessed evil man.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
    « Reply #40 on: July 08, 2019, 12:31:04 PM »
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  • Also we only know the Sun's mass from calculations in a Heliocentric model. Using a mass obtained from a model to try and prove that model is circular reasoning.

    Excellent point.  For all we know, the sun could have a much smaller mass than science claims that it does.


    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
    « Reply #41 on: July 08, 2019, 12:32:29 PM »
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  • .
    And then the larger body is 333,000 times the mass of the smaller body, the barycenter is inside the larger body.
    .
    What part of this do you not understand, you demon possessed evil man.
    Again, assuming there are only two bodies in the Universe. If you have two bodies of relatively similar mass, the barycentre would be outside of each mass. Therefore it would not be within a body with mass at all, and the two bodies would be orbiting a point of ZERO MASS. Proving that it is possible for larger masses to orbit smaller ones, and even non-existent masses, if the barycentre of multiple masses happens to lie there. Therefore, it is possible for the barycentre of the Universe to lie in the Earth, which would mean the Sun would orbit the Earth even if the Sun had a greater mass.

    Offline apollo

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    Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
    « Reply #42 on: July 08, 2019, 12:34:04 PM »
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  • You're acting as if the Sun and the Earth are the only two masses in the Universe. Nonsense. The barycentre of the Universe as a whole does not have to be in its point of greatest mass, it could even be at a point with 0 mass. So arguing from the mass of an individual does not prove where the centre of masses OF THE UNIVERSE is.

    Also we only know the Sun's mass from calculations in a Heliocentric model. Using a mass obtained from a model to try and prove that model is circular reasoning.
    .
    We already know from Seallar Parallax that the Earth is not the center of the universe.
    .
    I noticed that you guys are avoiding the concept of Stellar Parallax.
    Your total argument is "nonsense".
    .
    Instead of talking about Stellar Parallax, you accuse me of changing the subject.
    .
    It's OK for one of you to call me a devil, but it's not OK for me to call you a devil.
    Hypocrite would be a factual name for you.

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
    « Reply #43 on: July 08, 2019, 12:35:26 PM »
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  • .
    We already know from Seallar Parallax that the Earth is not the center of the universe.
    .
    I noticed that you guys are avoiding the concept of Stellar Parallax.
    Your total argument is "nonsense".
    Neo-Tychonic model explains stellar parallax, I already linked this and numerous famous scientists(even atheists like Hawkings) who agree that there is no contradiction between Stellar Parallax and the Tychonic model.

    I've noticed you're going off on a tangent now instead of admitting you were wrong and idiotic when it came to barycentres.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Amazing Scientific Evidence for God
    « Reply #44 on: July 08, 2019, 12:35:43 PM »
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  • .
    And then the larger body is 333,000 times the mass of the smaller body, the barycenter is inside the larger body.
    .
    What part of this do you not understand, you demon possessed evil man.

    You're really showcasing your ignorance.  Size has absolutely nothing to do with this.  It's possible for the 333,000 smaller body to have a LARGER MASS than the bigger one.  It's about mass and density and not about size.

    In this case, however, assuming that the assumption about the MASS of the two planets are indeed, correct, if the sun and earth existed alone ... as an isolated system, then the barycenter would certainly just so happen to reside somewhere within the physical boundaries of the sun.  But the sun and earth are not alone in the solar system.  So even NASA admits that the barycenter of the solar system (depending on the alignment of the planets) CAN exist outside the physical boundaries of the sun.  And then if you expand the system to the entire galaxy and then to the entire universe, no one can prove where the barycenter of the universe is ... or isn't.