Author Topic: Am I married?  (Read 3001 times)

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Offline InfiniteFaith

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Am I married?
« on: August 14, 2014, 05:24:29 AM »
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  • When I was young and stupid (18 years old), I entered into a relationship with a girl for about 4 months. It was one of the biggest mistakes of my life as the relationship was full of fornication. I entered into this relationship out of curiosity, I wasn't really  attracted to her, and I did not truly love her. Even though I would tell her I did. Yeah I know it sounds weird, but I guess I felt kinda trapped into this relationship for a number of reasons. Anyways, I remember that, one day, towards the end of the relationship, I asked her to marry me. I think I was half serious about it and half way joking about it at the same time. Then of course, she says "yes". Then she asked the same question in return, and I said "yes". We never went any further than that with it. There was no blessing from a priest or a wedding or anything. That was it.

    The part that is getting me now is that I just read that you do not need a priest in order to get married. I am wondering if maybe I am actually married to this girl because of what I mentioned above.

    Nowadays, she lives in another country and is married to another guy, and has a kid by him. I am not sure if this matters in the eyes of God. Maybe God still sees me and her as being married. That is, of course, if we truly are because of what i mentioned above.

    So I will leave it at that for now. But I need to know if I need to get an annulment of some sort. I was not very serious about it when I asked her but I think she was. Plus I did not truly love her. What do you think?

    Online Ladislaus

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    Am I married?
    « Reply #1 on: August 14, 2014, 05:39:25 AM »
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  • No, on several counts.  If you are a baptized Catholic (or she is), the marriage must be witnessed by a priest in order to be valid.  Also, this would no more constitute an actual marriage than an engagement does; some vague intention or plan to get married does not constitute the same thing as the actual marriage vows.


    Offline clare

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    Am I married?
    « Reply #2 on: August 14, 2014, 05:41:37 AM »
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  • Quote from: InfiniteFaith
    The part that is getting me now is that I just read that you do not need a priest in order to get married.

    That's only if you're marooned on a desert island or something and there is no priest available. If you can get a priest, you need a priest.

    Offline Dolores

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    Am I married?
    « Reply #3 on: August 14, 2014, 08:16:02 AM »
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  • Merely agreeing to marry, or even announcing your intention to marry, is not the same as actually marrying.  In order for a marriage to occur, both the man and the woman must give their present consent to be married from that point on (neither party may have an impediment to marry either, of course).

    Further, even if you both did give actual consent to marry, if one of both of you were baptized Catholics, the marriage would be invalid.  Canon law requires a witness for the Church (i.e. a priest) in order for the marriage of a Catholic to be valid.  As clare has pointed out, the only time this isn't required is if it is impossible to marry in front of a priest (marooned on an island, trapped in a country hostile to the Church, etc.).

    Offline TKGS

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    « Reply #4 on: August 14, 2014, 08:47:34 AM »
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  • Asking permission to do something is not the same as doing the act.

    You both made an agreement to marry at some point but you both, evidently, decided not to go through with the agreement.  Hopefully, you have confessed your sins with this girl and you can now continue your life.  You are not married.

    When I read the title of this topic I thought of something completely different.  I was married in the Novus Ordo.  When I had been married just shy of two years, we moved to Indiana.  The prior archbishop had recently died and there was no replacement yet named.  After a few months, a new archbishop was named and, upon taking the reigns of the archdiocese, began writing a column in the archdiocesan newspaper.  Of course, with all the moral rot in society, one of the first topics he felt compelled to write about was the annulment process. :confused1:

    The point of his article was to explain and defend how an "apparent marriage" could last many years, produce many children, and yet, have never been a valid "sacramental marriage".  He discussed how people who really have no understanding of what marriage entails, did not really know what the commitment would truly require, may have been too emotionally immature at the time of the marriage to truly be married even though they had "appeared" to be married for 25 or 30 years and had adult children and even grandchildren.

    This article truly scandalized me.  I was in shock.  Was I truly married?  Did I receive the sanctifying grace of the sacrament?  Was I destined to discover years from now that we were never truly married?  I wrote to the archbishop.

    I received a reply (sadly, I do not have a copy of my original letter or his reply anymore).  His reply assured me that I was validly married--even though he didn't know me from Adam.  He also suggested, in a round-a-bout way that the primary proof that a marriage was never really valid was that it ends in a civil divorce.  This was 1992.

    It was also when my "confusion" about the Conciliar Church began.  This was my beginning of my search for Catholic Truth.  I seriously could not understand how an archbishop of the Catholic Church could be so shallow as to assume that we could, after years of stable marriage, suddenly discover that--Oops!--we weren't married after all!  I had even asked him if priests really fully understood what they were entering into when they were ordained and wondered if they could discover that their ordinations weren't really valid because of their emotional immaturity.  He didn't address this question at all.


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Am I married?
    « Reply #5 on: August 14, 2014, 08:57:19 AM »
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  • TKGS:  When I read the title of this thread I thought of the validity of a NO Sacrament of Marriage.  It is my understanding that there were no changes to this Sacrament.  However, I do doubt now whether we received the Body and Blood of our Lord at our Mass.  I tend to believe that the priest who confected the Eucharist was ordained by a valid bishop, but I guess there will always a bit of doubt about his ordination.
    "For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad."- Luke 8:17

    Offline Histrionics

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    Am I married?
    « Reply #6 on: August 14, 2014, 09:46:00 AM »
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  • Was she at least an 8?

    Offline TKGS

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    « Reply #7 on: August 14, 2014, 12:31:40 PM »
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  • Quote from: 2Vermont
    TKGS:  When I read the title of this thread I thought of the validity of a NO Sacrament of Marriage.  It is my understanding that there were no changes to this Sacrament.  However, I do doubt now whether we received the Body and Blood of our Lord at our Mass.  I tend to believe that the priest who confected the Eucharist was ordained by a valid bishop, but I guess there will always a bit of doubt about his ordination.


    Actually, there are various "forms" that the couple can choose for a wedding.  One of which is the "traditional form" which is largely the same.  The actual words used (i.e., the sacramental form) used in the new "traditional form" are basically the same as in the true traditional form, but many of the ceremony surrounding the sacramental form have changed even using the new "traditional form".

    The priest gave us a booklet which contained a number of options which, sadly, I no longer have.  But there were a number of different options for both wedding Masses (Novus Ordo, of course) and a wedding without a Mass.

    The Conciliar sect did not leave any of the sacraments alone.


    Offline poche

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    Am I married?
    « Reply #8 on: August 14, 2014, 10:42:58 PM »
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  • Quote from: InfiniteFaith
    When I was young and stupid (18 years old), I entered into a relationship with a girl for about 4 months. It was one of the biggest mistakes of my life as the relationship was full of fornication. I entered into this relationship out of curiosity, I wasn't really  attracted to her, and I did not truly love her. Even though I would tell her I did. Yeah I know it sounds weird, but I guess I felt kinda trapped into this relationship for a number of reasons. Anyways, I remember that, one day, towards the end of the relationship, I asked her to marry me. I think I was half serious about it and half way joking about it at the same time. Then of course, she says "yes". Then she asked the same question in return, and I said "yes". We never went any further than that with it. There was no blessing from a priest or a wedding or anything. That was it.

    The part that is getting me now is that I just read that you do not need a priest in order to get married. I am wondering if maybe I am actually married to this girl because of what I mentioned above.

    Nowadays, she lives in another country and is married to another guy, and has a kid by him. I am not sure if this matters in the eyes of God. Maybe God still sees me and her as being married. That is, of course, if we truly are because of what i mentioned above.

    So I will leave it at that for now. But I need to know if I need to get an annulment of some sort. I was not very serious about it when I asked her but I think she was. Plus I did not truly love her. What do you think?

    No, you are not married to her. In order for a marriage to be valid it has to follow the correct form as determined by the Catholic Church as determined by Canon Law. This is the rule book you would have to follow.

    http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM

    On a side note. If you lived in the 1790s the fact that you proposed marriage to her and she accepted, that would be an impediment to any future marriage to any one else.

    Offline InfiniteFaith

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    Am I married?
    « Reply #9 on: August 15, 2014, 03:29:02 AM »
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  • Quote from: Histrionics
    Was she at least an 8?


    Son, I'm sorry you had to find out about who your father is this way. But its important that you know now. I hope you understand, and please forgive me for not being apart of your life.

    I wish I could make it up to you, but I can't. I'm sorry that you are taking it so hard.

    Offline Judas Machabeus

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    Am I married?
    « Reply #10 on: August 15, 2014, 04:55:24 AM »
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  • Whiskey tango foxtrot.

     :whistleblower:


    Offline 2Vermont

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    « Reply #11 on: August 15, 2014, 07:11:25 AM »
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  • Quote from: TKGS
    Quote from: 2Vermont
    TKGS:  When I read the title of this thread I thought of the validity of a NO Sacrament of Marriage.  It is my understanding that there were no changes to this Sacrament.  However, I do doubt now whether we received the Body and Blood of our Lord at our Mass.  I tend to believe that the priest who confected the Eucharist was ordained by a valid bishop, but I guess there will always a bit of doubt about his ordination.


    Actually, there are various "forms" that the couple can choose for a wedding.  One of which is the "traditional form" which is largely the same.  The actual words used (i.e., the sacramental form) used in the new "traditional form" are basically the same as in the true traditional form, but many of the ceremony surrounding the sacramental form have changed even using the new "traditional form".

    The priest gave us a booklet which contained a number of options which, sadly, I no longer have.  But there were a number of different options for both wedding Masses (Novus Ordo, of course) and a wedding without a Mass.

    The Conciliar sect did not leave any of the sacraments alone.


    Oh I don't doubt there were some things changed.  I guess my main concern was whether any of the changes placed any doubt to its validity.  From my readings, I don't think there was.
    "For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad."- Luke 8:17

    Offline BTNYC

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    Am I married?
    « Reply #12 on: August 15, 2014, 07:52:11 AM »
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  • Quote from: InfiniteFaith
    Quote from: Histrionics
    Was she at least an 8?


    Son, I'm sorry you had to find out about who your father is this way. But its important that you know now. I hope you understand, and please forgive me for not being apart of your life.

    I wish I could make it up to you, but I can't. I'm sorry that you are taking it so hard.


    And you're the guy who thought he was the prophecied Great Catholic Monarch, huh?

    Offline Dolores

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    « Reply #13 on: August 15, 2014, 10:11:20 AM »
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  • Quote from: BTNYC
    Quote from: InfiniteFaith
    Quote from: Histrionics
    Was she at least an 8?


    Son, I'm sorry you had to find out about who your father is this way. But its important that you know now. I hope you understand, and please forgive me for not being apart of your life.

    I wish I could make it up to you, but I can't. I'm sorry that you are taking it so hard.


    And you're the guy who thought he was the prophecied Great Catholic Monarch, huh?


    InfiniteFaith, for whatever reason, is desperate to be on the top rung of a hierarchy.  Perhaps it's because isn't on top of one based on merit right now, but he seems to want to find some innate quality of himself that make him better than others.  First it was his race; he'd go on and on about white superiority, both in a worldly and spiritual matter.  Thankfully he has abandoned that nonsense.  Then it was the fact that he was the Great Catholic Monarch.  Now, it's his physical attractiveness that makes him better.  I wonder what will be next.

    Offline InfiniteFaith

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    « Reply #14 on: August 15, 2014, 11:00:46 AM »
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  • Quote from: BTNYC
    Quote from: InfiniteFaith
    Quote from: Histrionics
    Was she at least an 8?


    Son, I'm sorry you had to find out about who your father is this way. But its important that you know now. I hope you understand, and please forgive me for not being apart of your life.

    I wish I could make it up to you, but I can't. I'm sorry that you are taking it so hard.


    And you're the guy who thought he was the prophecied Great Catholic Monarch, huh?


    I can't even believe that you are still thinking about that. What are you doing? Monitoring me? If so, then please stop. I don't like being monitored.

    I never thought I was that. I just wondered if there was any chance.

    I don't need to be anything like that. Its hard enough trying to stay focused on God, and the road to salvation. As long as I am in grace, and doing the right thing I will be happy. Oh, I could use a family too. That would help me get through it all.

     

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