...I need some advice here. I found out some relatives of mine will have a fourth of July gathering, and at first I thought they were going to be watching the movie "The Patriot" because I heard "Mel Gibson." Then later I found out that they are going to be watching instead "Apocalypto." Now I know that that movie has some pretty explicit things in it. I know about the ending and gather what I think is the message why Mel Gibson made the movie "Apocalypto," but it would be sinful to watch? I am not sure what to do. I could probably somehow avoid it as best as I can by being in another room. I am not one these days much for television and movies though.

Women's bare breasts are seen throughout the whole movie. I would not watch it but occupy myself with something else in another room.

Here's the basic plot. (Sorry, I forget some of the real names of the characters.)

There are these Mayan Indians living in the jungle. They are basically happy and noble. The pick of the litter in this tribe is a young guy named Jaguar Paw. He has a wife and a little boy. His wife is expecting. He has a wise old father. The wise old father is a bit of a Gloomy Gus. He is always predicting the end of their happy days.

Then it happens. They all get either captured or massacred by fellow Mayans from the Big City. Jaguar Paw gets captured. But first he hides his wife and son in a rocky pit. Tied to a pole he and his fellow captives are marched to the Big City. There are weird scenes in which hints of some unspeakable fate are dropped. Then they get to the Big City. They are painted blue. They are marched up to the top of a pyramid. Their fate is to have their hearts cut out and offered to their god, and then to have their heads cut off. It's all very ghastly.

Just when it's Jaguar Paw's turn, there is an eclipse. The priests figure that the sun god has had enough blood. But the group from the jungle is still ordered killed. Most of them are killed. Jaguar Paw escapes into the jungle. He outruns the "soldiers" who chase him, and picks them off one by one. (But no,  some die in other grisly ways on their own.)

He gets to his village. He saves his wife and son and newborn son in the nick of time: it was raining and for some reason they weren't just floating to the top of the pit, as though they were made of iron or something.

Then the big twist. There is still a soldier out to get them and they all run out on to the beach. They see something that makes them drop everything. The Nina, the Pinta, and the Santa Maria. Or something along those lines. They see a priest in a rowboat. The wife looks strangely attracted to the advancing Spaniards: the way it's filmed, you get the impression that Actual Grace is at work.

Jaguar Paw does not look attracted at all. He looks respectfully dubious. Maybe he's just had enough of priests and religious rites that might cost him his heart and his head. He suggests that they go into the jungle and make a new start in life. And off they go.

If Mel had asked my advice, I would have suggested a film about Our Lady of Guadalupe that ran along somewhat more traditional lines. With more reservations than I cited above, I still could recommend an edited version of this film to men between the ages of 40 and 65 who do not have heart trouble. By editing I mean the excision of the scene that I rated C for Condemned above, and the shading of certain things that are visible. It could easily be done.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure that the priest was holding up a big crucifix and that the wife seemed to be responding to that. Which means that Jaguar Paw might be too, which makes the scenario problematic from the Catholic point of view.

I thought it was a good movie, yes there are women with bare breasts, yes there is human sacrifice in the movie, if either of those things bother you then don't watch it, otherwise enjoy it for what it is, a portrayal of how savages lived in America before the arrival of Christianity, it also shows how we are slowly returning to that savage state, there are many in our society who act in the same way as the savages, making crude jokes etc.

Whether it would be sinful relies on your own disposition more than anything in my opinion, If when watching it you find yourself thinking sinful thoughts then walk away to another room, such thoughts are only sinful if you consent to them and do nothing to try and stop them.

For those here who may question my character because of what I have wrote above I will say this: women's bodies are not sinful in themselves it is when we over sɛҳuąƖise them that they become a source of sin, for evidence of this among other things I will refer you to the medieval devotion to Maria Lactans, clearly from this it can be seens that the sight of a womens breasts does not immediately lead to perverted thoughts if the mind has not already been perverted.  

The OP asked for advice. I forgot to give advice. Here's my advice.

Don't watch it. Not one second of it. You've got a good thing going with your aversion to worldly vanities. Don't flirt with danger by getting Jesuitical about morality. Stay Christian.

Not everyone is going to want to spend two hours watching semi-nude people being ripped open and decapitated, or brained, or mutilated by jaguars. Go outside or in another room and talk to Aunt Tillie, who is sensitive and genteel. Go outside or in another room and talk to Uncle Sid, who has high blood pleasure, or just doesn't like watching semi-nude people being tortured and killed.

Don't worry about offending anyone. Catholics are so Me Too. If you were a pacifist liberal punk and refused to watch THE PATRIOT for pacifist liberal punk reasons people would just shake their heads and smile and say, "Oh, that KP... So strong in his beliefs." And if someone is offended? Tough. We're not in this world not to offend people who find Christian standards of decency offensive.

You needn't say anything or make a fuss. That's obnoxious too in a younger person. Just avoid it and socialize with the other relatives who will NOT be watching this interesting and beautifully shot but, occasionally, unintentionally ludicrous gore fest, which I would Condemn as a whole the way it stands now because of that one extremely filthy and inexcusable scene at the beginning.

Maybe I'm visualizing this gathering of relatives incorrectly: I see twenty people all over the place: patio, kitchen, living room, rec room. But I'm also going by what you said about the other room. And like a poster above I can't imagine EVERYONE going to such a gathering to watch a movie.

I grow weary of people thinking the natural sight of a breast is gravely sinful.  They're baby feeders!  In the right context it doesn't pose any problems.

In context that's true, and in context that's false. To a husband and family sure, but to a stranger no. God covered Adam and Eve for a reason. If someone was to see a woman naked in western culture they would not see breasts as "baby feeders".

Well, thank you all for your advice. I have decided to be in another room where the younger ones will be. I need prayers though to not by chance end up catching sight of anything of that movie though if I end up passing by and some special features could be watched. It is sad how even the minds of Catholics have been infected with immoral ideas in contradiction to simultaneously held moral standards.

Quote from: Miss_Fluffy

I grow weary of people thinking the natural sight of a breast is gravely sinful.  They're baby feeders!  In the right context it doesn't pose any problems.

In context that's true, and in context that's false. To a husband and family sure, but to a stranger no. God covered Adam and Eve for a reason. When you flashed a guy at a bar do you think he was looking at you as "baby feeders"?

You seem to take a real interest in my past sinful behaviors Mike.  

I certainly wasn't comparing loincloth wearing natives to singles bar rowdiness.  Talk about a problem with context.  We're talking about a movie, and you bring up conversations about my personal sins from the past that happened on another forum, taking them out of context?  

If someone read your response and had not read it within the context which it was written on the other forum, they would get the wrong idea about me and what I stated.  

You sir, have committed calumny against me, making up stories of your own imagination to degrade me on a couple of occasions now.  While it is true that the act you mentioned, did happen, I never implied that it was less than gravely sinful, and never sought to rationalize the behavior as being "natural".

I will no longer respond to your nonsense, it seems pretty clear that you would prefer I not participate on this forum, because it's the place where you get to commit calumny and detraction with wanton abandon.  Or perhaps you actually like having me around so that you have someone to poke your misplaced aggression at.  Regardless, I am disgusted and hurt by your behavior towards me, and find it very un-gentlemanly.  I will no longer engage you as a peer.