Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => General Discussion => Topic started by: dmg on March 04, 2014, 02:03:26 PM
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I always get in discussions with a fellow co worker. He's a Christian, goes to church once in a while but nothing like a Traditional Catholic. My dilemma today is, according to my co worker, you can live you life how you want, murder, steal, cheat, all the mortal sins. At the end of your life, as long as you believe, you will be saved. No confession, communion etc.... I can't rebuke him because I'm not that intellectually sound in my faith. He gets this from the Bible, how he interprets the passages. What say you.
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Your cowoker must be an heretical Protestant. Remind him in all kindeness that he is not going to be saved unless converts to true Christianity, that is Catholicism, since the Catholic Church is the only one instituted by Christ Our Lord when He walled the earth among us. He must become a member of the Catholic Church through Baptism in order to get to Heaven. He needs to be instructed of basic Catechism and much prayed for so God can give him the Divine gift of Faith. Only then he will be able to conprehend the full extent of Our Faith, for example, the magnificent importance of the Eucharist.
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'Do not say that you are the temple of the Lord, writes Jeremiah (cf. Jer. 7:4); nor should you say that faith alone in our Lord Jesus Christ can save you, for this is impossible unless you also acquire love for Him through your works. As for faith by itself, "the devils also believe, and tremble" (Jas. 2:19).'
St. Maximus the Confessor
'They profess that they know God: but in their works they deny him; being abominable, and incredulous, and to every good work reprobate.'
Titus 1:16
'Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?'
James 2:19
'Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?'
James 2:24
'And by this we know that we have known him, if we keep his commandments.'
1 John 2:3
'He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them; he it is that loveth me.'
John 14:21
'He who saith that he knoweth him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.'
1 John 2:4
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Dave, your co-worker is operating under the false protestant heresy that by faith alone are you saved. There are oodles of passages in the New Testament that show us otherwise.
I just searched the on-line Douay Rheims, a very handy tool, http://www.drbo.org/
using the words Faith and Saved and the first 3 texts which came up were these, which immediately prove him wrong.
The first was rewritten by Luther to include the word alone
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you are saved through faith (Luther added alone - a grave sin in itself to add anything to the Word of God), and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God;
2 1 Timothy 2:15
Yet she shall be saved through childbearing; if she continue in faith, and love, and sanctification, with sobriety.
3 Matthew 10:22
And you shall be hated by all men for my name' s sake: but he that shall persevere unto the end, he shall be saved.
Often it is fruitless to discuss with these people, as they are not open to the Truth, but you can sharpen up your own skills, and you must pray for them.
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My son-in-law was approached in the same way. He was told that God is Love. And my son-in-law reminded him of Noah's Ark.
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Oh, by the way, Satan believes there is a God. Where did it get him?
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I always get in discussions with a fellow co worker. He's a Christian, goes to church once in a while but nothing like a Traditional Catholic. My dilemma today is, according to my co worker, you can live you life how you want, murder, steal, cheat, all the mortal sins. At the end of your life, as long as you believe, you will be saved. No confession, communion etc.... I can't rebuke him because I'm not that intellectually sound in my faith. He gets this from the Bible, how he interprets the passages. What say you.
Believe what?
As Songbird rightly said, Satan "believes" in God. It's not doing him much good!
St Paul says to work out our salvation in fear and trembling. Scripture is replete with reference to works being necessary for salvation.
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I always get in discussions with a fellow co worker. He's a Christian, goes to church once in a while but nothing like a Traditional Catholic. My dilemma today is, according to my co worker, you can live you life how you want, murder, steal, cheat, all the mortal sins. At the end of your life, as long as you believe, you will be saved. No confession, communion etc.... I can't rebuke him because I'm not that intellectually sound in my faith. He gets this from the Bible, how he interprets the passages. What say you.
If you are unable to engage him answering him, I would suggest avoiding the topic all together. It is better to not participate in such exchanges unless you are prepared.
I would suggest you remember what he says and look up the topic in a Catholic apologetics book, such as Radio Replies, that way you can learn how to better explain our Faith.
There is nothing wrong with not being able to come up with a response, Catholics can be intellectual giants to simple folk and everything in between.
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I always get in discussions with a fellow co worker. He's a Christian, goes to church once in a while but nothing like a Traditional Catholic. My dilemma today is, according to my co worker, you can live you life how you want, murder, steal, cheat, all the mortal sins. At the end of your life, as long as you believe, you will be saved. No confession, communion etc.... I can't rebuke him because I'm not that intellectually sound in my faith. He gets this from the Bible, how he interprets the passages. What say you.
The OP has the same initials as "Doug mac Gowan" who posted in the health forum about wanting interviewees for some supposed book he was writing. I therefore challenge the OP to reveal whether he is in fact the same person, and also whether he is studying us with clinical anti-Catholic bigotry for his so called "book".
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At the end of your life, as long as you believe, you will be saved. No confession, communion etc.... .
You might ask him what his plans are in case he dies instantly, say from a massive heart attack, a car accident, explosion etc.
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Ask him to read the Epistle of St. James with an open mind, like he has never read it before. Ask him then if he can honestly square what he read there with what he currently believes. Luther wanted to leave this "straw epistle" out of the German Bible he translated becasue it clearly proved him wrong. His assistant Philip Melanchthon, who was smarter and a bit less heretical, talked him out of it.
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if you have membership at churchmilitant
you can find "Sola Fides Is A Lie!" under "Fidei Defensor 2"