Author Topic: alcoholic  (Read 1735 times)

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Offline nctradcath

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Re: alcoholic
« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2017, 03:12:10 PM »
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  • Sad situation.

    Offline nctradcath

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    Re: alcoholic
    « Reply #31 on: September 07, 2017, 03:18:36 PM »
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  • I am also being unnecessarily contrarian today. I apologize to everyone on the thread.


    Offline sedevacantist3

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    Re: alcoholic
    « Reply #32 on: September 07, 2017, 05:13:50 PM »
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  • I'm sorry that you find yourself in this position.

    For a drinker to stop drinking, they have to acknowledge that they have a problem, and they have to want to stop. There is lots of alcoholism on both sides of my family, and widely different outcomes. A paternal uncle drank himself to death at 59 years old. Every year, he stopped drinking for lent, just to prove to the world that he wasn't an alcoholic and could stop if he wanted to. Then on Easter Monday he would go back to the pub and that was him for another year. I believe that he had a death wish for some deep-seated psychological reason. But he knew that suicide is a mortal sin, so he wrongly thought that killing himself slowly over a period of years would absolve him of responsibility. At the end, he endured a lingering, painful death that was brutal to watch.

    On the other side, my mother's brother is also an alcoholic. He was hospitalised just before his 40th birthday and told that if he didn't quit immediately he wouldn't see his 41st birthday. He went home, thought it through and decided to quit. That was 30 years ago and he hasn't had a drink since. Even the tragic death of his 13-year old daughter didn't push him back to drink. When he meets people for the first time, if there is socialising of any kind involved he always openly states that he is an alcoholic and therefore he can't drink alcohol.

    The difference between my 2 uncles is that one wanted to live, and one didn't. So a simple, but blunt, question for your wife's friend would be just to ask him if he wants to live or die.
    no need to feel sorry for me, I will simply have a coffee with him but I might just ask him that question, do you want to live or die...also not sure if I mentioned but he's irish, his father was an alcoholic, he owns an Irish Pub...seeing that you are Irish wouldn't you say that drinking is part of the culture making it doubly hard to quit because his own siblings don't tell him to quit and sell the bar, they want him to keep the bar for the prestige etc

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: alcoholic
    « Reply #33 on: September 07, 2017, 05:46:27 PM »
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  • Also, I don't think people realize this but hardcore alcoholics who stop drinking cold turkey can die. It affects the body in such a way that people can and have died from it. So, if he stops, it has to be very, very gradual.
    An alcoholic cannot stop drinking gradually, or even very, very gradually. That's what makes him alcoholic. He cannot control his drinking. Also alcoholics are unhealthy with all sorts of health problems.
    So.... Stopping suddenly is the only way to get off alcohol, but it should be done under supervision. The person desiring to quit should inform his doctor and some responsible person who knows what to watch out for. Withdrawal effects can range from mild to severe, and as you say even death. But continuing to drink will have severe effects, and most likely worse effects, not only for the drinker, but also for his family.
    But the key is his own determination. Nobody else can do it,

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: alcoholic
    « Reply #34 on: September 07, 2017, 06:14:00 PM »
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  • ...also not sure if I mentioned but he's irish, his father was an alcoholic, he owns an Irish Pub...seeing that you are Irish wouldn't you say that drinking is part of the culture ...
    It's true that some Irish seem to have a predisposition to alcohol abuse. Is that the culture?
    .
    My husband is Italian and he has been having alcohol since childhood. He has alcohol with every meal, except Fridays. Alcohol is a large part of the Italian culture but the Italians don't generally have a reputation for drunkenness.
    .
    Our own children would sometimes have wine (diluted) with a meal.


    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: alcoholic
    « Reply #35 on: September 07, 2017, 06:45:08 PM »
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  • Not every drink eventually becomes violent. You are wrong.
    No I'm not wrong.  Alcoholic behaviour is progressive as brain damage occurs.

    The social drinker progresses to the habitual drinker to the happy drunk
    to the belligerent drunk to the obnoxious drunk  to the violent drunk to dead.

    Many other habit and health factors contribute to how rapid or slow this progression is.
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline nctradcath

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    Re: alcoholic
    « Reply #36 on: September 07, 2017, 07:54:40 PM »
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  • The root cause is despair and self pity. The drunk realizes that life is miserable. He doesn't realize that the only antidote is the true Catholic faith and the loves of the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate heart of Mary. Some drunks stop because they find that there life or spouse is worth living for. Maybe his wife is not worth it for him. Maybe, his life isn't worth living for him. He needs to turn outwards, but many never do that and drink himself to death. Modern America is miserable, cold, and hellish. I don't blame him. 

    Offline Irish_Catholic

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    Re: alcoholic
    « Reply #37 on: September 07, 2017, 10:06:54 PM »
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  • no need to feel sorry for me, I will simply have a coffee with him but I might just ask him that question, do you want to live or die...also not sure if I mentioned but he's irish, his father was an alcoholic, he owns an Irish Pub...seeing that you are Irish wouldn't you say that drinking is part of the culture making it doubly hard to quit because his own siblings don't tell him to quit and sell the bar, they want him to keep the bar for the prestige etc
    Without a doubt you are correct in this.
    We have a pub culture, which is fun and enjoyable for those who don't have a dependence on alcohol, but which makes it very difficult for those who do.
    My father has been teetotal all his life. There are members of the extended family who don't like him because he is not a 'pub person'. That is the type of attitude that you're up against in our culture.
    Aidrean O'C CertPhys DipMus BSc(Hons) MMedSc DSc
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    Offline sedevacantist3

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    Re: alcoholic
    « Reply #38 on: September 10, 2017, 07:56:38 PM »
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  • Without a doubt you are correct in this.
    We have a pub culture, which is fun and enjoyable for those who don't have a dependence on alcohol, but which makes it very difficult for those who do.
    My father has been teetotal all his life. There are members of the extended family who don't like him because he is not a 'pub person'. That is the type of attitude that you're up against in our culture.
    thanks....Had a coffee with him, told him the basics, that drunkards go to hell unless they change their ways, he admitted he has a drinking problem but the way the wife acts I can't say she is without any fault, for instance she was talking to a divorced man on the phone for an hour a day for a stretch of time,no doubt to upset her husband in retaliation but when the husband objected she told him "you can't control me"...at the end of the day it will most likely be splitsville

    Offline songbird

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    Re: alcoholic
    « Reply #39 on: September 10, 2017, 09:00:20 PM »
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  • Amakusa:  So, who cut out "songbird" post.  That was a rotten move on  your part, Amakusa.

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: alcoholic
    « Reply #40 on: September 10, 2017, 09:43:15 PM »
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  • thanks....Had a coffee with him, told him the basics, that drunkards go to hell unless they change their ways, he admitted he has a drinking problem but the way the wife acts I can't say she is without any fault, for instance she was talking to a divorced man on the phone for an hour a day for a stretch of time,no doubt to upset her husband in retaliation but when the husband objected she told him "you can't control me"...at the end of the day it will most likely be splitsville
    he admitted he has a drinking problem... 
    That's an essential first  step
    .
    but the way the wife acts.... 
    Or at least how he says she acts. You see, now it's his wife's fault. Alcoholics are notorious for putting the blame on somebody else and can also be notorious liars.
    .
    Now maybe what he tells you is true and maybe it's not.
    Certainly, there's always responsibility on both sides.

    In case you missed one of my previous posts :

    Quote
    It's a classic case. He's drinking because he's embarrassed? You embarrassed him by talking to his mate. Therefore it's your fault he's drinking. That's how it goes. It's always someone else's fault. 

    Give it a miss. Best not get further involved. There's no hope for him at this stage, or rather... repair to your prie-dieu
      


    Offline Amakusa

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    Re: alcoholic
    « Reply #41 on: September 11, 2017, 02:06:12 AM »
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  • Songbird, what are you talking about?!

    You accuse me of sending you private e-mails in another topic, and now what is the meaning of your claim?!

    I have become your scapegoat, I believe!
    The baptism of desire and the baptism of blood are dogmas of faith and truths of natural reason: see the article of the New Advent Encyclopedia on baptism, and Catholic Essentials. Those who deny the baptism of desire, the baptism of blood,

    Offline SanMateo

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    Re: alcoholic
    « Reply #42 on: September 13, 2017, 10:55:58 AM »
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  • Besides telling him he will go to hell for being a drunkard not sure what else I can add. If anyone has any ideas I'll take them
    I wonder if there has ever been a SINGLE drunk in the world that was told, "You'll go to hell if you don't stop" that actually stopped.  Do they say, "Oh wow!  I never thought of that.  I'll stop immediately.  As Catholics, we can't condone sin, but I don't know of many cases where telling people they will go to hell is effective.  I am absolutely open to being wrong here, I just don't know of anyone that has had that work for them.  

    Offline nctradcath

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    Re: alcoholic
    « Reply #43 on: September 13, 2017, 11:49:04 AM »
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  • I am not sure that an alcoholic can truly stop without desiring it. Does the alcoholic need an actual grace to desire to stop drinking? Fear of death has stopped some, but fear of death is often a grace from God that causes souls to convert.

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: alcoholic
    « Reply #44 on: September 13, 2017, 01:10:21 PM »
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  • This is all pretty academic as usually when a divorce occurs, one or both spouses eventually "remarry." The only reason that wouldn't happen is if one spouse was truly traditional Catholic or couldn't remarry because of children or poor physical appearance. The couple in the story was novus ordo so my prediction that if a divorce occurs, the wife will get bored and "remarry."  
    When Novus Ordo Catholic couples divorce, they are often recommended to seek an annulment. Sometimes with an annulment, the guilty party (the alcoholic, abuser, or adulterer) is not allowed to remarry, but at other times, they are permitted to remarry if they successfully seek counseling and/or spiritual help. However, some of these couples never seek an annulment because they have lost the faith due to their brokenness, financial ruin, etc.


    I have known couples who have sought an annulment in good faith following the advice of their priest, only to have mercy shown to both the guilty and the innocent party, but then the innocent spouse becomes upset over the mercy shown and loses the faith. However, in these cases, priests have said that there is no truly innocent party as we are all sinners in need of mercy.


    Sometimes separation is good as it might bring the alcoholic spouse to his senses, but divorce can lead to financial ruin.
    Perhaps if the lady would separate and pray for him that might bring her husband to his senses.


    In the Eastern Catholic Churches, there is a practice of praying to Our Lady the Theotokos of the Inexhaustible Cup.
    https://parma.org/events/akathist-to-the-theotokos-healer-of-alcoholics


    I used to have a small prayer pamphlet that is obtainable with these very prayers to the Theotokos.
    They are powerful. Many alcoholics have been cured when people pray for them.
    Lord have mercy.

     

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