Author Topic: Age of the Earth (Read 1601 times)

Vladimir · « **on:** April 11, 2012, 05:14:26 PM »

What is the age of the earth according to the pre-Vatican II church - how many thousands of years were recorded from the beginning of the Old Testament until the present day?

Telesphorus · « **Reply #1 on:** April 11, 2012, 05:16:15 PM »

Quote from: Vladimir

What is the age of the earth according to the pre-Vatican II church - how many thousands of years were recorded from the beginning of the Old Testament until the present day?

I'm sure there were varying opinions.

Vladimir · « **Reply #2 on:** April 11, 2012, 05:37:16 PM »

I ask because in a section of his writings, Pascal seems to pose the question of which is more trustworthy with calculating the age of the earth - Moses or Chinese historians. It's obviously posed as a rhetorical question aimed at making the reader feel guilty for even thinking about questioning Moses, so I thought that there would at least be a consensus on how old the earth is based on the Old testament.

Chinese history is definitely recorded since 2100 B.C., but it's mythological history (historians disagree how accurate these accounts may be, but I read on the Internet that some Jesuit missionaries proposed that some of the mythical rulers were actually people in the Old Testament) goes back to 2500 B.C.

Does this contradict the Sacred Scriptures?

It should also be added that the reigns of rulers during the so-called "semi-mythological" earliest part of Chinese history are remarkably well-docuмented.

Trinity · « **Reply #3 on:** April 12, 2012, 09:18:03 AM »

I've always understood it was 6,000----4,000 BC and 2, 000 AD

TKGS · « **Reply #4 on:** April 12, 2012, 11:39:10 AM »

Quote

Solemnity of the Nativity
From the Roman Martyrology

In the twenty-fourth day of the month of December;

In the year five-thousand one-hundred and ninety-nine from the creation of the world, when in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth;

In the year two-thousand nine-hundred and fifty-seven from the flood;

In the year two-thousand and fifty-one from the birth of Abraham;

In the year one-thousand five-hundred and ten from the going forth of the people of Israel out of Egypt under Moses;

In the year one-thousand and thirty-two from the anointing of David as king;

In the sixty-fifth week according to the prophecy of Daniel;

In the one-hundred and ninety-fourth Olympiad;

In the year seven-hundred and fifty-two from the foundation of the city of Rome;

In the forty-second year of the reign of the Emperor Octavian Augustus;

In the sixth age of the world, while the whole earth was at peace, JESUS CHRIST eternal God and the Son of the eternal Father, willing to consecrate the world by His gracious coming, having been conceived of the Holy Ghost, and the nine months of His conception being now accomplished, (all kneel) was born in Bethlehem of Judah of the Virgin Mary, made man. The birthday of our Lord Jesus Christ, according to the flesh.

Looks like the Church teaches, through her liturgy, that creation was in the year 5199 B.C. I've also read that creation was on 25 March of that year, which would have been the same day as the Annunciation. But I've also read that the traditional date of the creation is 25 April, so that the Resurrection is actually the anniversary of the creation. I don't know if there's a particular date that was actually taught by the Church, but the year is definitely a part of Catholic doctrine.

Vladimir · « **Reply #5 on:** April 12, 2012, 06:46:32 PM »

Thank you TKGS.

This is the pertinent part from the Pensees:

Quote

Histoire de la Chine

Je ne crois que les histoires dont les téniubs se feraient égorge.

(Lequel est le plus croyable des deux: Moise (2) ou la Chine (3)?

Il n'est pas question de voir cela en gros: je vous-dis qu'il y a de quoi aveugler et de quoi éclairer.

Par ce mot seul je ruine tous vos raisonnements.

- <<Mais la Chine obscurcit, dites-vous.>> Et le réponds: <<La Chine obscurit, mais il y a clarté à trouver (4). Cherchez-la.

Ainsi tout ce que vous dites fait à un des desseins, et rien contre l'autre. Ainsi cela sert et ne nuit pas. Il faut donc voir cela en détail, il faut mettre papiers sur table.>>

2. Le Pentateuque.

3. Alors que, selon l'interprétation haituelle au XVIIe siecle, la chronologie biblique situat la création environ quatre mille ans avant le Christ, on rapportait que les chronques chinoises remontaient nettement plus haut dans le temps. Pascal l'aviat etendu de la bouche du théologien Jacques Forton, sieur de Saint-Ange...qui au demeurant contestait la validté du calcul des exegets bibliques de son temps; il a pu le lire ensuite dans Les Préadamites (1655) d'Isaac de La Peyrère et dans l'Histoire toire de la Chine (Sinicae Historiae, 1658) du P. Martini, jésuite.

4. Les chronologies chinoises peuvent <<aveugler>>, mais par là même, au lieu de constituer une objection contre le christianism, elles entrent dans l'un des desseins divins, qui est d'<<aveugler les réprouvés>> (fr. 268) - l'autre étant d'<<éclairer les élus>>...

Telesphorus · « **Reply #6 on:** April 12, 2012, 06:49:42 PM »

Quote from: TKGS

I don't know if there's a particular date that was actually taught by the Church, but the year is definitely a part of Catholic doctrine.

Part of the doctrine? What about the date of the Nativity? Are we supposed to believe the Anno Domini calendar is infallible?

JohnGrey · « **Reply #7 on:** April 12, 2012, 08:44:27 PM »

Quote from: TKGS

Quote
Solemnity of the Nativity
From the Roman Martyrology

In the twenty-fourth day of the month of December;

In the year five-thousand one-hundred and ninety-nine from the creation of the world, when in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth;

In the year two-thousand nine-hundred and fifty-seven from the flood;

In the year two-thousand and fifty-one from the birth of Abraham;

In the year one-thousand five-hundred and ten from the going forth of the people of Israel out of Egypt under Moses;

In the year one-thousand and thirty-two from the anointing of David as king;

In the sixty-fifth week according to the prophecy of Daniel;

In the one-hundred and ninety-fourth Olympiad;

In the year seven-hundred and fifty-two from the foundation of the city of Rome;

In the forty-second year of the reign of the Emperor Octavian Augustus;

In the sixth age of the world, while the whole earth was at peace, JESUS CHRIST eternal God and the Son of the eternal Father, willing to consecrate the world by His gracious coming, having been conceived of the Holy Ghost, and the nine months of His conception being now accomplished, (all kneel) was born in Bethlehem of Judah of the Virgin Mary, made man. The birthday of our Lord Jesus Christ, according to the flesh.

Looks like the Church teaches, through her liturgy, that creation was in the year 5199 B.C. I've also read that creation was on 25 March of that year, which would have been the same day as the Annunciation. But I've also read that the traditional date of the creation is 25 April, so that the Resurrection is actually the anniversary of the creation. I don't know if there's a particular date that was actually taught by the Church, but the year is definitely a part of Catholic doctrine.

I find this quite dubious, if for no other reason that for the firm assignment of a date for the founding of Rome, which is a question still debated today. Even during the Republican period, only two and one-half centuries after that supposed event, the range for for founding was nearly thirty years wide. It wasn't even until roughly the rise of the Julio-Claudians that the date of 753 B.C. gained any widespread acceptance.