Author Topic: After Paris attacks, Pope speaks out against insulting religions (Read 1868 times)

Emitte Lucem Tuam · « **on:** January 15, 2015, 08:03:24 PM »

"You can't provoke, you can't insult the faith of others, you can't make fun of faith," says, 'Francis - "pope" of Rome.

"I think both freedom of religion and freedom of expression are both fundamental human rights," Francis, "pope" of Rome.

http://news.yahoo.com/paris-attacks-pope-speaks-against-insulting-religions-121551202--sector.html

Read it and weep

B from A · « **Reply #1 on:** January 15, 2015, 08:31:10 PM »

Quote from: Emitte Lucem Tuam

"I think both freedom of religion and freedom of expression are both fundamental human rights," Francis, "pope" of Rome.

http://news.yahoo.com/paris-attacks-pope-speaks-against-insulting-religions-121551202--sector.html

Read it and weep

Quote

From this poisoned source of indifferentism flows that false and absurd, or rather extravagant, maxim that liberty of conscience should be established and guaranteed to each man - a most contagious error, to which leads that absolute and unbridled liberty of opinion which for the ruin of Church and State spreads over the world, and which some men, by unbridled impudence, fear not to represent as advantageous to the Church. 'And what more certain death for souls,' says Saint Augustine, 'than the liberty of error!' On beholding them thus, indeed, take away from men every rein able to restrain them in the paths of truth, hurried as they already are to ruin by a nature inclined to evil, we may say in truth that there yawns that pit of the abyss, from which Saint John beheld ascending a smoke that obscured the sun, and locusts to lay waste the earth. Thence, in fact, the instability of minds; thence the ever increasing corruption of the young; thence, in the people, the contempt of sacred rights and the holiest laws and things; thence, in a word, the saddest scourge that can ravage States, since experience attests, and the remotest antiquity teaches, that cities powerful in wealth, dominion, and glory perished by this sole evil " the unbridled liberty of opinions, the license of public discourse, the passion for changes.

"With this is blended the liberty of the press - the most fatal liberty, an execrable liberty, for which there never can be sufficient horror, and which certain men dare so loudly and earnestly to demand and extend everywhere. We shudder, venerable brethren, when we consider the monstrous doctrines, or rather prodigies of error, with which we are overwhelmed; errors disseminated far and wide by an immense multitude of books, pamphlets, and other publications, small indeed in bulk, but enormous in perversity, giving rise to the malediction which covers the face of earth and causes our incessant tears.

from:
MIRARI VOS
ON LIBERALISM AND RELIGIOUS INDIFFERENTISM
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE GREGORY XVI

JezusDeKoning · « **Reply #2 on:** January 15, 2015, 09:05:32 PM »

I'm of the opinion that people shouldn't satirize or insult in puerile ways the religion of others. It's simply too controversial. I would get fired or possibly even physically accosted if I posted some silly, infantile, primary-school-level drawing of a Jєωιѕн man with stereotypical Jєωιѕн figures emblazoned with the words "Kikes Ruined This Country" or something. Maybe worse should I decide to portray our dear friend, Mahomet the Conflict-Starter, in similar ways.

That being said, Francis is dead wrong on everything here.

poche · « **Reply #3 on:** January 15, 2015, 10:24:19 PM »

The problem is that even if you just tell the truth some people will get mad.

Geremia · « **Reply #4 on:** January 15, 2015, 10:32:26 PM »

France imprisons for 5+ years for blaspheming "the h0Ɩ0cαųst", yet all other blasphemy is protected?:
http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2015/01/ʝʊdɛօfascism-lays-siege-to-france.html?m=1

Bergoglio speaks out about the Paris attack, yet says nothing about "Palestinian victims of Israeli state-sponsored terror":
http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2015/01/may-god-change-cruel-heart-of-pope.html?m=1

poche · « **Reply #5 on:** January 15, 2015, 10:40:35 PM »

Quote from: Geremia

France imprisons for 5+ years for blaspheming "the h0Ɩ0cαųst", yet all other blasphemy is protected?:
http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2015/01/ʝʊdɛօfascism-lays-siege-to-france.html?m=1

Bergoglio speaks out about the Paris attack, yet says nothing about "Palestinian victims of Israeli state-sponsored terror":
http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2015/01/may-god-change-cruel-heart-of-pope.html?m=1

When Pope Francis went to the Holy Land he said quite a lot against the mistreatment of the Palistinians.

Geremia · « **Reply #6 on:** January 16, 2015, 12:23:41 AM »

The Pope speaks on freedom to blaspheme: "If a close friend insulted your mother, you might punch him, right?"

In his airplane interview in the flight taking him from Sri Lanka to the Philippines, Pope Francis commented on the limits of freedom of speech:

Quote

[Question] Yesterday morning, during mass, you spoke of religious liberty as a fundamental human right. With respect to the different religions, up to what point can we go in terms of freedom of speech, that also is a fundamental human right?

[Pope:] Thank you for this intelligent question! I believe that they are both fundamental human rights: religious freedom and freedom of speech. We cannot...you are French, right? Well, then, let's go Paris, let's speak clearly. We cannot hide a truth today: each one has the right to practice his religion, without causing offense, freely, and we all wish to do this.

Secondly, we cannot offend, make war, kill, in the name of religion, that is, in the name of God.

That which is happening today surprises us, but let us always think of our history: how many wars of religion have we known! Think only of the Night of Saint Bartholomew [St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre]! How can we understand that. We also have had our sinners regarding this, but we cannot murder in the name of God, it's an aberration. To murder in the name of God is an aberration. I believe that is the main thing on religious liberty: we must practice it in liberty, without causing offense, but without imposing or murdering.

Freedom of speech...Each person has not only the freedom, the right but also the obligation to say what he thinks to aid the common good: the obligation! If we think that what a member of parliament or a Senator says - and not only they, but so many others - is not the good path, that he does not collaborate wirh the common good, we have the obligation of saying it openly. This freedom is necessary, but without offending. Because it is true that one should not react violently, but if Mr. Gasbarri [note: voyage planner, standing beside the pope], who is a great friend, says a swear word about my mother, he can expect to receive a punch! It's normal... We cannot provoke, we cannot insult the faith of others, we cannot mock faith.

Pope Benedict, in an address I cannot recall well [note: the Regensburg address] had spoken of this post-positivist mindset, of this post-positivist metaphysics that led, in the end, to believe that all religions, or all religious expressions, are a kind of sub-culture: they are tolerated, but they are irrelevant, they are not in the culture of the Enlightenment. This is a legacy of the Enlightenment.

There are so many people who speak ill of religions, who mock them, who play with the religion of others. They provoke...and it can happen that which could happen to Mr. Gasbarri if he said anything about my mother. There is a limit! Each religion has dignity, each religion that respects human life and man, and I cannot mock it...it's a limit. I take the example of the limit to say that, in the matter of the freedom of speech, there are limits, as in the case of my mother.

[I-média, the French language religious news agency, made this part of the papal interview available now, before the official Vatican text - our translation. / Tip: FC-Ennemond.]

ProtectorofOrder · « **Reply #7 on:** January 16, 2015, 03:11:34 AM »

Islam should be banned altogether. There is no such thing as a moderate Muslim. Russia has already banned Quran translations years ago.

Anyway here's a satirical image of one of their ridiculous practices:

http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/2/2/9/8/8/2/1/burqa-king-86035709735.jpeg

poche · « **Reply #8 on:** January 16, 2015, 10:32:42 PM »

France doesn't have the same freedom of speech rights as the United States. For example;

The justice ministry has revealed that a number of fast-track custodial sentences have been handed down in cities across France in the past few days for expressions of support for the gunmen.

In Toulouse alone, three men in their early twenties have been jailed, two of them for 10 months, for shouting obscenities at police.

One threatened to attack police with a Kalashnikov while another said the Kouachi brothers were "just the start".

It was in Toulouse that Islamist gunman Mohamed Merah killed seven people in a series of attacks in 2012, including one on a Jєωιѕн school.

In Nanterre, east of Paris, a man was sent to prison for a year for posting a video on Facebook that mocked policeman Ahmed Merabet, who was shot at point-blank range by one of the Kouachis.

However;

Directly provoking or publicly condoning terrorism in France now commands a five-year jail term and a fine of €75,000. And if it is done online, the penalty can be extended to seven years and €100,000 (£76,000; $116,000).

What I would like to know is how the Charlie Hebdo people have been able to escape the fast track prison like some of the other people?

Eternal Peace · « **Reply #9 on:** January 17, 2015, 03:50:43 AM »

francis is not the Pope ... obvious. how can people not admit this ?

he is the last pope before time ends in several years .... just ask saint malachy : )

poche · « **Reply #10 on:** January 18, 2015, 12:33:57 AM »

Quote from: Geremia

The Pope speaks on freedom to blaspheme: "If a close friend insulted your mother, you might punch him, right?"

In his airplane interview in the flight taking him from Sri Lanka to the Philippines, Pope Francis commented on the limits of freedom of speech:
Quote
[Question] Yesterday morning, during mass, you spoke of religious liberty as a fundamental human right. With respect to the different religions, up to what point can we go in terms of freedom of speech, that also is a fundamental human right?

[Pope:] Thank you for this intelligent question! I believe that they are both fundamental human rights: religious freedom and freedom of speech. We cannot...you are French, right? Well, then, let's go Paris, let's speak clearly. We cannot hide a truth today: each one has the right to practice his religion, without causing offense, freely, and we all wish to do this.

Secondly, we cannot offend, make war, kill, in the name of religion, that is, in the name of God.

That which is happening today surprises us, but let us always think of our history: how many wars of religion have we known! Think only of the Night of Saint Bartholomew [St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre]! How can we understand that. We also have had our sinners regarding this, but we cannot murder in the name of God, it's an aberration. To murder in the name of God is an aberration. I believe that is the main thing on religious liberty: we must practice it in liberty, without causing offense, but without imposing or murdering.

Freedom of speech...Each person has not only the freedom, the right but also the obligation to say what he thinks to aid the common good: the obligation! If we think that what a member of parliament or a Senator says - and not only they, but so many others - is not the good path, that he does not collaborate wirh the common good, we have the obligation of saying it openly. This freedom is necessary, but without offending. Because it is true that one should not react violently, but if Mr. Gasbarri [note: voyage planner, standing beside the pope], who is a great friend, says a swear word about my mother, he can expect to receive a punch! It's normal... We cannot provoke, we cannot insult the faith of others, we cannot mock faith.

Pope Benedict, in an address I cannot recall well [note: the Regensburg address] had spoken of this post-positivist mindset, of this post-positivist metaphysics that led, in the end, to believe that all religions, or all religious expressions, are a kind of sub-culture: they are tolerated, but they are irrelevant, they are not in the culture of the Enlightenment. This is a legacy of the Enlightenment.

There are so many people who speak ill of religions, who mock them, who play with the religion of others. They provoke...and it can happen that which could happen to Mr. Gasbarri if he said anything about my mother. There is a limit! Each religion has dignity, each religion that respects human life and man, and I cannot mock it...it's a limit. I take the example of the limit to say that, in the matter of the freedom of speech, there are limits, as in the case of my mother.
[I-média, the French language religious news agency, made this part of the papal interview available now, before the official Vatican text - our translation. / Tip: FC-Ennemond.]

It sounds like he is sympathizing with the muslim attackers who are attacking Charlie Hedbo. This also has applications for Cathoics because Charlie Hebdo has also insulted Catholics.

Viva Cristo Rey · « **Reply #11 on:** January 18, 2015, 05:15:26 AM »

Quote from: Geremia

France imprisons for 5+ years for blaspheming "the h0Ɩ0cαųst", yet all other blasphemy is protected?:
http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2015/01/ʝʊdɛօfascism-lays-siege-to-france.html?m=1

Bergoglio speaks out about the Paris attack, yet says nothing about "Palestinian victims of Israeli state-sponsored terror":
http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2015/01/may-god-change-cruel-heart-of-pope.html?m=1

France heavily fined Archbishop Lefebvre...

2008 a cartoonist who worked for Charlie was fired because of anti Semitic cartoon. And most of the cartoons were anti Catholic.

Geremia · « **Reply #12 on:** January 18, 2015, 07:13:44 PM »

Quote from: Viva Cristo Rey

Quote from: Geremia
France imprisons for 5+ years for blaspheming "the h0Ɩ0cαųst", yet all other blasphemy is protected?:
http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2015/01/ʝʊdɛօfascism-lays-siege-to-france.html?m=1

Bergoglio speaks out about the Paris attack, yet says nothing about "Palestinian victims of Israeli state-sponsored terror":
http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2015/01/may-god-change-cruel-heart-of-pope.html?m=1

France heavily fined Archbishop Lefebvre...

2008 a cartoonist who worked for Charlie was fired because of anti Semitic cartoon. And most of the cartoons were anti Catholic.

France does have the largest Jєωιѕн community of Europe…

poche · « **Reply #13 on:** January 20, 2015, 12:14:07 AM »

Valentina Alazraki: On the flight from Sri Lanka you used the image of the gesture that this poor man (Gasbarri) might have merited if he insulted your mother would have merited a punch. Your words were not well understood by everyone in the world and seemed to justify the use of violence in the face of provocation. Could you explain a little better what you meant to say?

Pope Francis: In theory we can say that a violent reaction in the face of an offense or a provocation, in theory yes, it is not a good thing, one shouldn’t do it. In theory we can say what the Gospel says, that we should turn the other cheek. In theory we can say that we have freedom of expression, and that’s important. But in theory we all agree. But we are human and there’s prudence, which is a virtue of human coexistence. I cannot constantly insult, provoke a person continuously, because I risk making him angry, and I risk receiving an unjust reaction, one that is not just. But that’s human. For this reason I say that freedom of expression must take into account the human reality and for this reason it must be prudent. It’s a way of saying that one must be educated, prudent. Prudence is the human virtue that regulates our relations. I can go up to here, I can go up to there, and there, beyond that no. What I wanted to say is that in theory we all agree: there is freedom of expression, a violent aggression is not good, it’s always bad. We all agree, but in practice, let us stop a little because we are human and we risk provoking the other. For this reason freedom must be accompanied by prudence. That’s what I wanted to say.

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/full-text-of-popes-in-flight-interview-from-manila-to-rome-84716/

It appears that the Pope said the opposite of what your title implied.

Eternal Peace · « **Reply #14 on:** January 20, 2015, 05:38:58 AM »

francis is a b-otch