Why is it that every single time someone comes on here inquiring about where to go to Mass it immediately goes off into 10 different tangents & the arguments get more heated as the pages pile up?

Neil, why are you so insistent that AgnesRoma go to OLHC??!!  They were already there & left for whatever reason.  And why are you pushing them to be confirmed RIGHT NOW?  Confirmation isn't necessary for salvation.  It would better for them to wait & be confirmed next year when they have  a better grounding in the faith.  What's the rush?

AngesRoma, just go to Arcadia at Our Lady of the Angels on the corner of Duarte Rd. & TempleCity Blvd.  It's not that far from Westminster & it should take you 45 minutes as there's little traffic on Sun.  Masses are 7:30 & 10. All the other churches are too far  and OLHC under Fr. Perez is controversial so don't bother.  You already left there.   Just from reading your posts I think you will find many like-minded people at Arcadia.  You write like you are possibly Vietnamese & there are MANY Vietnamese in Arcadia.   You'll like it.  Were you in the Vietnamese class while you were at Fr. Perez's OLHC?

illyricuмsacrum - I thank God that you found your way to these posts!  All of the docuмentation with pictures can be found in the first link below(there were three witnesses present who signed under oath, and multiple priests taking part in the ceremony as prescribed); it was held in Bp. Mendez's private chapel.  The online page 12 of 23 shows pictures of the consecration step by step with photocopies of all of the legal docuмentation  -

http://congregationofstpiusv.net/Consecration%20of%20Bishop%20Kelly.pdf

This is what I meant in my previous post to matto about the disinformation about Bp. Kelly and the breakup of the nine.

Please read Sacred and Profane, and read the rest of the articles found on their sites.

http://congregationofstpiusv.net/index.html
http://www.stpiusvchapel.org/

some reason, I can not watch this youtube video, can you post actual link in text for me ?

I am not an expert on this matter. Here is a defense of the Thuc ordinations and consecration. It is long but I am posting it for anyone who is interested. This address was given at a CMRI conference.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/embed/iLJIqLd5Gh8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen[/youtube]

Adult Confirmation Class is taught by Lay Person, not priest.
and he teach very liberal Catholicism. such as, gαy is OK, everybody go to Heaven, using Father Barron's video.

he also use that Pope said "who are there to judge gαy" as that he suggest now Catholic church tech ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ are no longer sin, so on.

That is a very incorrect description of Pope Francis. When he was Cardinal Bergoglio he was a thorn in the side of the Kirchner government over that very issue.  

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This is an interesting post:

thanks for many information and from other.
I will read docuмents carefully later.  
We are new to Latin Mass community.  we have been attending Latin mass since 2011.
we did not even know anything about SSPX, OLHC in Garden Grove, FSSP, Institute Christ King, so on.  matter fact, we did not know much about Catholicism.
my wife did not go Catholic church for over 30 years, I have not been attending Catholic church for close to 10 years.
then, we start to going regular church ( Novus Ordo ) , she immediately notice there is a big change in 30 years,  I also notice change in 10 years.  now church become much more social, and people greet each other chit chat before mass, and during "peace be with you" session, parishioner walk around greet people and chit chat.  
and after the mass, they all clap hands.  
some church during mass, they are all raising hand in the air, saying something.

You have received the grace of perception, having been away for a number of years and now you are shocked by the changes that you see all at one time.  This grace is something to be thankful for!

When they raise their arms and speak, it is during the Our Father, which normally comes after the Consecration.  Traditionally, only the celebrant prays the Pater Noster.  The Newmass has the whole congregation saying it, and the charismatics (started 1965 during Vat.II) make it into some kind of "experience" that they get excited over.  It is not unlike the seeking of mystical experience that "evangelical protestants" and Medjugorje groupies like to do.  We are not supposed to seek after being titillated and entertained by religion.  It is not about seeking such pleasures.

Traditionally, when we go to church we are supposed to be able to seek a quiet place to find communion with God on a personal level.  It is a God-centered orientation that we look for and take comfort in finding.  

we thought their behavior are very strange, we suspected, we may came to wrong church ( protestant church ) by mistake.
I think here in Southern California,  Novus Ordo Mass can be very different from other parts of US.

There is another thread with a video from a diocese parish (Good Shepherd) in the midwest where they do all these things and more, and they're proud of it!  They say "this is what makes our faith community unique!"  So now, being "different" is thought to be a GOOD thing.  That's the unclean spirit of Vat.II in action.  Before Vat.II, the Mass was the same everywhere in the world and all the restaurants and shops were different.  Today, all the Newchurch Newmasses are different all over the world, but McDonald's is the same.  IHOP is the same.  Macy's is the same.  Wal*Mart is the same.  You can get the same Coca-cola in France that you can in Australia or Canada or Tierra del Fuego or Okinawa.  But the Newmass will be different, perhaps unrecognizable one to the next.

even though , we have not been to church for long time,  may be because, we did not go to the church long time, those behavior look very strange to us.
I suppose, those changes are gradual, so many people do not notice it, but for us, it was shock.
I heard, somebody saying Pope Benedict 16th point at bottom of door, and said his authority end at line there.  

it is true that Dioceses Latin Mass do not teach much,  may be exception of  Fr. Michael Rodriguez in Texas.

I found Michael Voris had guest asking Pope to admit SSPX and other similar churches into communion.   hope, this will happen.

we probably plan to go to OLHC in Garden Grove, if she can get confirmed through them at Arcadia.  we have been switching churches about every 6 months, so it is about time to switch again.   OLHC is only 5 miles from us.

There are millions of people all over the world who would love to have a Mass center like OLHC, only 5 miles away from their home.  You don't know how blessed you are, AgnusRoma!


You have the grace of discernment and the grace of a nearby chapel.  Some would say you have the whole universe in the palm of your hand.  

(I embedded the video, below, for you)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/embed/6e9G5U4GFbk[/youtube]



http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/2014/02/pope-francis-and-sspx-opportunity.html

AgnusRoma, don't bother trying to understand poche's posts because you'll only get closer to being as confused as poche is.

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I tried to post this earlier but for whatever reason it would not go through......

Why is it that every single time someone comes on here inquiring about where to go to Mass it immediately goes off into 10 different tangents & the arguments get more heated as the pages pile up?

The reason posts pile up is because members like to push their personal agendas instead of just providing the facts so an inquisitive member can make up their own mind.  Like this post by Thorn, for example.

Neil, why are you so insistent that AgnesRoma go to OLHC??!!  They were already there & left for whatever reason.  And why are you pushing them to be confirmed RIGHT NOW?  Confirmation isn't necessary for salvation.  It would better for them to wait & be confirmed next year when they have  a better grounding in the faith.  What's the rush?

I'm not "pushing them," you are.  

I've been looking at what they're facing, what they're asking for, and what they need, and OLHC makes the most sense, obviously, all considered.  The only reason they'd be reluctant to go to OLHC is because they're confused by YOU and others like YOU.  I'm merely providing sensible balance for their decision.  

I'm not pushing for them to be confirmed RIGHT NOW.  They were asking where to be confirmed, and I'm telling them where and how.  They already called Arcadia and asked but Arcadia told them they "really should be coming to Mass here" to be confirmed there.  They took that at face value, and I'm saying they have to realize this has been this way for 30 years, that Arcadia has the same sales pitch they always have had.  The difficulty for AgnusRoma to travel to Arcadia is apparently of no concern to Arcadia's office spokesperson OR TO YOU, THORN, because it's not something that fits into your personal agenda.  If you were honest and could put aside your personal animosity for whatever, you'd leave it alone.  But obviously that's not what you're about, is it?  

So Confrimation isn't necessary for salvation?  HA!  What's not necessary for salvation is for them to read posts by THORN and "+PG+"  and others who are bent on puffing themselves up with pride.  A good traditional Confirmation is a grace that is available to anyone within reach, and we are at a time in history when it is available right now, but it might NOT be available before too long.  There have been other times when this has occurred.  Take Japan in the 17th century, for example.  Several generations went by with no confirmations.

If they qualify for Confirmation now, why should they wait?  After having that extra spiritual strength, they'll be all the more able to keep attending Mass and classes and learn about the Faith of Catholics.  

Most people who become strong Catholics know just the basics when they are confirmed and then they proceed to learn the bulk of their Faith AFTER Confirmation.  There's nothing unusual about that.

AngesRoma, just go to Arcadia at Our Lady of the Angels on the corner of Duarte Rd. & TempleCity Blvd.  It's not that far from Westminster & it should take you 45 minutes as there's little traffic on Sun.

Now who's being "pushy?"!  They already said it's out of their range.  And you know better??  What if you had to take a bus or get a ride from someone and had to listen to others giving advice?  

Or, are you going to drive to Orange County and pick them up, and give them a lift to Arcadia every week, and take them home again afterwards?

Masses are 7:30 & 10. All the other churches are too far

Too far, eh?   That's a lie.

and OLHC under Fr. Perez is controversial so don't bother.

Oh, "controversial" is it?  Now we're getting to the crux of the matter.  Thorn met up with something Thorn didn't like at OLHC and Thorn is practicing the sin of detraction by going on the Internet to spew hatred far and wide.  

Okay, now it makes sense.  Now I understand.  It took 55 posts for it to come out, but here it is, finally.  

One member asks one question about Confirmation and Thorn tries to turn the thread into a CALUMNY thread.  

Gotcha.

You already left there.   Just from reading your posts I think you will find many like-minded people at Arcadia.  You write like you are possibly Vietnamese & there are MANY Vietnamese in Arcadia.   You'll like it.  Were you in the Vietnamese class while you were at Fr. Perez's OLHC?

There are many Vietnamese at St. Boniface in Anaheim.  So what?  Should AgnusRoma go to Anaheim for classes to be among others who speak the same mother tongue?  

I learned something very important at St. Boniface in Anaheim.  I learned why there was a War in Vietnam in the first place.  The reason there was ever a Vietnam war is because the Devil cannot STAND to hear the Rosary chanted in the heavenly tones that they do.  It is a sound that is unforgettable.  It is a piece of heaven itself.  Our Lady has touched the hearts of the Vietnamese people, and this treasure of the Vietnamese chanted Rosary is the consequence.  And I don't think that a good recording exists anywhere, unfortunately.  One thing's for sure:  now that north and south Viet Nam are Communist, the public chanting of the Rosary (that's when it is mind-bogglingly beautiful) is no doubt a capital crime.  


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I believe many Catholic left the church because of changes.  at least they are confused.  many Catholic today like I was do not know what is Sin what is not.  long before in 1990's , when I only knew Novus Ordo,  I stop going to confession because priest kept telling me "that is Not Sin", "that is not sin", for many things I confess.   I heard several people telling same things, that they too stop going confession.  I suppose, one need to find a church or priest, who at least absolve you.  now, church I go confession do not say that.

reason, we start to going to Diocese Latin Mass  over OLHC.  because  OLHC church have different rule if person can take communion or not.   I understand, one must know Traditional Catholic teaching to take communion at OLHC.    required level of knowledge of Traditional Catholic is different of one priest to other.   it was all right at one mass that we take communion, but not from other mass from different priest.  so we start to going to Diocese mass.  because we met requirement to take communion at Diocese mass.  and later it  become difficult for us to find out which Mass is offered by which priest,   and Diocese Latin Mass is about same distance from OLHC,  Latin Mass at St Mary by the sea,  and Latin Mass at St John the baptist,  all 3 are about same distance and time take to drive from where we live.
so when we did not know or was not sure which priest offer mass, we just went to Diocese mass.  and going to OLHC become less frequent as time pass.
so if  we are to go to OLHC, first we must find out schedule.  OLHC is good church, teaching are very good,  classes are very informative,  just it become inconvenient over schedule issue for us.  as I stated in previous post, we are sort of new to Catholicism because of long break, and still learning.  

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This is an interesting post:

You have received the grace of perception, having been away for a number of years and now you are shocked by the changes that you see all at one time.  This grace is something to be thankful for!

When they raise their arms and speak, it is during the Our Father, which normally comes after the Consecration.  Traditionally, only the celebrant prays the Pater Noster.  The Newmass has the whole congregation saying it, and the charismatics (started 1965 during Vat.II) make it into some kind of "experience" that they get excited over.  It is not unlike the seeking of mystical experience that "evangelical protestants" and Medjugorje groupies like to do.  We are not supposed to seek after being titillated and entertained by religion.  It is not about seeking such pleasures.

Traditionally, when we go to church we are supposed to be able to seek a quiet place to find communion with God on a personal level.  It is a God-centered orientation that we look for and take comfort in finding.  

There is another thread with a video from a diocese parish (Good Shepherd) in the midwest where they do all these things and more, and they're proud of it!  They say "this is what makes our faith community unique!"  So now, being "different" is thought to be a GOOD thing.  That's the unclean spirit of Vat.II in action.  Before Vat.II, the Mass was the same everywhere in the world and all the restaurants and shops were different.  Today, all the Newchurch Newmasses are different all over the world, but McDonald's is the same.  IHOP is the same.  Macy's is the same.  Wal*Mart is the same.  You can get the same Coca-cola in France that you can in Australia or Canada or Tierra del Fuego or Okinawa.  But the Newmass will be different, perhaps unrecognizable one to the next.

I heard, somebody saying Pope Benedict 16th point at bottom of door, and said his authority end at line there.  

it is true that Dioceses Latin Mass do not teach much,  may be exception of  Fr. Michael Rodriguez in Texas.

I found Michael Voris had guest asking Pope to admit SSPX and other similar churches into communion.   hope, this will happen.

we probably plan to go to OLHC in Garden Grove, if she can get confirmed through them at Arcadia.  we have been switching churches about every 6 months, so it is about time to switch again.   OLHC is only 5 miles from us.

There are millions of people all over the world who would love to have a Mass center like OLHC, only 5 miles away from their home.  You don't know how blessed you are, AgnusRoma!


You have the grace of discernment and the grace of a nearby chapel.  Some would say you have the whole universe in the palm of your hand.  

(I embedded the video, below, for you)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/embed/6e9G5U4GFbk[/youtube]



http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/2014/02/pope-francis-and-sspx-opportunity.html

AgnusRoma, don't bother trying to understand poche's posts because you'll only get closer to being as confused as poche is.

.[/quote]

Frances, AgnesRoma's post was a bit confusing.   Yes, I think one priest at OLHC said one thing about communion & another said something else. That church,sadly, has problems.   But as far as the written test - that (I think) is in reference to the SSPX.  I think that you must pass a test to see if you know the material before you can be confirmed.  Whether that test is written or oral I don't know.  EVERYONE must be tested, not just AgnesRoma.  I do believe that's standard procedure, isn't it?  That's why I didn't think that they should be rushing into Confirmation, but to be better prepared.  After all, you're being asked to be soldiers of Christ!