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Traditional Catholic Faith => General Discussion => Topic started by: AgnesRoma on February 28, 2014, 05:33:25 AM

Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: AgnesRoma on February 28, 2014, 05:33:25 AM
Hello, we live in Southern California , Orange County, CA
my wife signed up for Adult Confirmation Class at near by church ( Diocese church )
and we have been taking about 4 weeks of this class now.

here is the problem we have.

Adult Confirmation Class is taught by Lay Person, not priest.
and he teach very liberal Catholicism.  such as, gαy is OK, everybody go to Heaven, using Father Barron's video.  

he also use that Pope said "who are there to judge gαy" as that he suggest now Catholic church tech ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ are no longer sin, so on.

he says this at end of every class we had.

it is painful to listen to Father Barron's talk on Video, and as much painful to listen to Adult confirmation lay teacher's very liberal opinion.  

his class is questions and answer session, often we answer that apply to Latin Mass, but not Novus Ordo mass.

such as what is the first reading ? "Epistle ?"  "What is That ?"  
"what priest wear under vest during mass ?", "Alb" "No"  I did not know Novus ordo priest do not wear Alb.

so on.  and we often answer wrong because of our unfamiliarity with Novus Ordo Mass. and tradition.

my wife say , our teacher is start to get irritated with us.

we are not sure, if we should continue to attend this adult confirmation class or not at this point.

do you all have any suggestion.

we usually attend Latin Mass offered by Diocese in Orange County, CA
but, we are possibly thinking about get confirmation from SSPX, but nearest SSPX church is in Alahambra, more than 1 hour away.


Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: johnb104 on February 28, 2014, 05:54:04 AM
I went through this too, and what I would do is seek a Traditional Priest (FSSP, SSPX, etc) so that you can just meet with them once a week or so. He should catechize you one on one and after a period of time will bring you into the church. My RCIA class Priest and cetechist were good, but then again they are the most traditional Novus Ordo that I have ever seen.

There are some RCIA programs that are good, bu most are probably bad. I would go to the FSSP and SSPX websites and look for places to attend Mass.

Pray to Our Lady to help guide you into the Church Her way! If you have the means to travel an hour away if you have to, it will be worth it. You might even find that the Traditional Latin Mass is said very close to you!

I'll pray for you and hope that you are led to a Traditional Priest who will help you and your family. God bless you.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 28, 2014, 06:41:31 AM
.

IMHO you're wasting your time at this NovusOrdo confirmation class.

(I am very familiar with what has been going on in Southern California since Vat.II, with Roger Cardinal Mahony and Bishop Tod Brown (http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/bishop_tod_brown_of_orange_county_could_face_prison_time/), etc.  How Mahony snuck through without a conviction for any of his manifest crimes can only be explained by demonic influence.  He was a close corroborator with Joseph Cardinal Bernardin of Chicago (http://www.arcticbeacon.com/articles/5-May-2008.html), who was the principal promoter of the sin of Sodom in the American Catholic Church.)  

The only thing you could possibly hope to accomplish there is to find out what errors they are promoting now (as opposed to the plethora of errors they have been promoting in the past 40 years).  

You are NOT going to learn about the Catholic faith there AT ALL.  So forget that.  

Another thing you might be trying to do is to evangelize the instructor or the other students - the latter of which may sometimes be interested in the truth, but not usually.  It sounds like your instructor is too far gone for any hope of being interested in what you have to offer.  

Your going to the Indult usually is another part of the problem.  The Mass might be okay, but the sermons are going to be useless.  You might as well take a nap during Indultery sermons.  

Since you're in Orange County, you ought to know about Our Lady Help of Christians in Garden Grove.  It's on Bixby Ave., near Brookhurst and Chapman Ave.  Msgr. Patrick Perez and several assistants have the Canonized Traditional Latin Mass there just as it was everywhere in the world from Apostolic times through the Age of Faith, Pope St. Pius V, Pope St. Pius X, and through WWII and even the Korean War.  Things started to change in 1955.  

There are none of the post-1954 changes to be found at OLHC, but you'll find a lot of the changes in your Indultery Mass.

I'm saying "Indultery" instead of "Indult" because it is a matter of FIDELITY.  A husband or a wife who is FAITHFUL to their marriage vows doesn't fool around with someone else to whom they're not married, because if they do, it's the serious sin of adultery, which is infidelity.  Every Indult diocese Mass on planet earth presumes from the start that the Newmass of Paul VI is the ORDINARY Roman Rite, and that's a lie.  It is unfaithfulness to the Apostolic Faith that has been handed down to us from antiquity, and we are supposed to know better.  Rome is in apostasy and it is up to the few who are paying attention to not forget the truth, before it's too late.  If you keep going to the Indultery Mass you'll forget the truth.  


As for confirmations, the SSPX is having them in Arcadia this year, on May 25th, and Msgr. has announced that you need to register for that at OLHC if you want to be confirmed as a parishioner of OLHC.  You don't have to travel to Santa Anita Race Track area for your classes.  A group from OLHC will be going to Arcadia for confirmation in May, and it's only one trip for one event.  You can probably carpool with someone if you ask in advance.  All you have to do is go to Garden Grove.  And you really ought to be going there for Mass, anyway.  The sermons are excellent, and the people are very friendly.  There are lots of social events, daily Mass, Stations during Lent, special classes on Moral Theology and the Great Councils of the Church, etc.  The regular parishioners have numerous contacts with Catholics all over the world, in every continent on the planet.  If you have a family member in New Delhi or Frankfurt or Brisbane or Lima or Bohol, chances are they know someone who is a friend of one of the OLHC parishioners.  They are the little flock of Fr. Frederick Schell (R.I.P.), who passed away in A.D. 2002, 12 years ago.  He was a great priest, and he left a fine legacy.



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Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: TKGS on February 28, 2014, 06:45:00 AM
Contact a Catholic Church:

Fontana
Our Lady of Lourdes Chapel
 Fr. Gerard McKee, CMRI
 Web site:  http://www.ourladyoflourdescmri.blogspot.com/
 16010 Boyle St.
 Fontana, CA 92337
 Sunday Mass: 1:30 p.m.
 Call (909) 829-0997 or (909) 841-8052

or

Los Angeles
Queen of Angels Church
 Fr. Dominic Radecki (RevDominicRgmail.com)
 Web site: http://www.queenofangelscatholicchurch.org
 24244 Newhall Ave.
 Santa Clarita, CA 91321
 Phone:(661) 255-9849
 Rectory: (661) 269-4943
 Cell: (661) 618-0075
 Sunday Masses: 8:00 a.m., 11:00 a.m., 5:00 p.m.

These chapels are close to Orange County according the MapQuest.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 28, 2014, 07:00:05 AM
.

As of 30 years ago, confirmation classes in Los Angeles and later Orange County were transformed into social service organization activities, whereby the students logged time doing charity work for the community as if they were in the Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts (both of which are now infested with Sodomites and Liberals).  

Anyone attending those NovusOrdo confirmation classes only heard about being nice to people, sharing love, suspending judgment, using inclusive language, respecting other religions, recycling, caring for the environment, and being nice to 'gαys'.  They were told that you only have to think about being Catholic while you're inside the walls of the church, so when you leave church and go back into the world, you go back into your own erstwhile worldliness, you return to your formal ways, and you can forget all about what you were thinking about reading the Gospel, for example.  

But the Gospel probably had most of the good stuff removed anyway.  That was one of the many "accomplishments" of Mahony.

If you were to explain to the confirmation instructor that it has always been the teaching of Holy Mother Church that we share our faith with our neighbors, and let our light shine like a candle on a lampstand and not like one put under a bushel basket, would he (or she) know what you're talking about?  

In Scripture where it says "the first shall be last and the last shall be first," Mahony took that to mean that at Communion, the people in the back of the Church come forward to receive first, and so it proceeds, until the last to receive are those who sit in the front pews.  I'm not making this up.  

Whoever came up with "Truth is stranger than fiction," must have known Mahony.  


.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Frances on February 28, 2014, 07:01:36 AM
 :dancing-banana:
The church where you're going isn't One, Holy, Roman, Catholic.  Better to study alone and pray than stay.  
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 28, 2014, 07:13:56 AM
Quote from: TKGS


Fontana
Our Lady of Lourdes Chapel
 Fr. Gerard McKee, CMRI
 Web site:  http://www.ourladyoflourdescmri.blogspot.com/
 16010 Boyle St.
 Fontana, CA 92337
 Sunday Mass: 1:30 p.m.
 Call (909) 829-0997 or (909) 841-8052



I know Vince and Pat Balderrama very well.  She's very nice.  I'll tell her "hi" from you.  

Quote
or

Los Angeles


Actually, that's Santa Clarita ("Newhall" properly speaking), north of the San Fernando Valley, which is north of Los Angeles proper.  Q of A is about 50 miles north of downtown Los Angeles, and 10 miles outside the city limits.  Orange County is closer than Santa Clarita.

Quote
Queen of Angels Church
 Fr. Dominic Radecki (RevDominicRgmail.com)
 Web site: http://www.queenofangelscatholicchurch.org
 24244 Newhall Ave.
 Santa Clarita, CA 91321
 Phone:(661) 255-9849
 Rectory: (661) 269-4943
 Cell: (661) 618-0075
 Sunday Masses: 8:00 a.m., 11:00 a.m., 5:00 p.m.


I know Fr. Dominic very well.  He's very nice, too.  

Agnes Roma would be much more at home at OLHC, IMHO.  

Agnes Roma is concerned with traveling to Arcadia.  
Why would he want to go twice as far to Fontana or Santa Clarita????????

.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 28, 2014, 07:56:44 AM
.

Clarification:


Quote from: AgnesRoma

my wife say , our teacher is start to get irritated with us.

we are not sure, if we should continue to attend this adult confirmation class or not at this point.

do you all have any suggestion.

we usually attend Latin Mass offered by Diocese in Orange County, CA
but, we are possibly thinking about get confirmation from SSPX, but nearest SSPX church is in Alahambra, more than 1 hour away.



He says "nearest SSPX church is in Alahambra, more than 1 hour away."  

First of all, Alhambra (not Alahambra) is a city east of L.A. where it's the location of an Indult Mass with nice music and High Mass every week, but it's not the SSPX.  SSPX has no chapel in the city of Alhambra.  The only SSPX chapel within 30 miles of Alhambra is in the city of Arcadia, Our Lady of the Angels Catholic Church (not to be confused with Mahony's Our Lady of the Angels so-called cathedral (https://www.olacathedral.org/), in downtown L.A.).  Arcadia is another city in the greater Los Angeles area, located between the city of Pasadena and the city of San Gabriel (where there is a California Mission, built by Fray Junipero Serra*).  

Second of all,  Alhambra isn't "more than 1 hour away" from any part of Orange County, unless you're on a bicycle or taking public transportation.  

Perhaps AgnesRoma uses the city bus to get around, and if so, going to OLHC in Garden Grove would be the perfect solution for Mass and Confirmation and everything else, to boot.



*Why Fr. Serra is not a canonized saint, when the likes of Fr. Josemaría Escrivá de Balaguer (Opus Dei founder), or Sister Faustina Kowalska are, and John XXIII and JPII are about to be, is an insult to the truth.  Fr. Serra walked the length of California's coast several times, on foot, and he was halfway crippled.  He made thousands of converts.  Due to his virtue and fortitude and benevolence and apostolic spirit, California had the Mass before it had the Gold Rush, and more missions than the Church had had ecuмenical councils.  There have been many miracles attributed to Fr. Serra, so that's not the hold-up.  He spoke Spanish, so it's not a cultural obstacle.  It must have something to do with politics.


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Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: TKGS on February 28, 2014, 08:34:37 AM
Quote from: Neil Obstat
As of 30 years ago, confirmation classes in Los Angeles and later Orange County were transformed into social service organization activities, whereby the students logged time doing charity work for the community as if they were in the Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts (both of which are now infested with Sodomites and Liberals).  


The Archdiocese of Indianapolis also has a "community service" requirement to receive the Sacrament of Confirmation.  In the few months prior to the biennial Confirmation service (last time it was at Lucas Oil Stadium where the Indianapolis Colts play football) the state-wide homeschool email group has a large number of posts with the subject:  "Community Service Opportunity" and members are posting numerous opportunities for the high school students who are working towards Confirmation to log in "charity" (i.e., Community Service) hours for a variety of "social service organizations".

While I do not object to asking people to volunteer for many of these organizations (of course, I do object to those that promote immoral behavior), the requirement that individuals log in a certain number of Community Service hours in order to be Confirmed smacks of Simony, especially in view of the fact that the Archdiocese and the parishes actually promote "Community Services" for their activities.

Furthermore, it actually decreases the real spirit of "service" making it merely a cost of getting something desired rather than a true self-giving.  Teaching the confirmands the need for sacrifice and self-giving is one thing, making it a requirement to be Confirmed is something else entirely.

But, Neil Obstat, that is what the Conciliar church is.  It is merely another social service institution.  And even it says that it is only one of many such institutions that are good to be involved with.

It's not just a problem in Los Angeles.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Tiffany on February 28, 2014, 09:08:21 AM
Quote from: TKGS
Quote from: Neil Obstat
As of 30 years ago, confirmation classes in Los Angeles and later Orange County were transformed into social service organization activities, whereby the students logged time doing charity work for the community as if they were in the Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts (both of which are now infested with Sodomites and Liberals).  


The Archdiocese of Indianapolis also has a "community service" requirement to receive the Sacrament of Confirmation.  In the few months prior to the biennial Confirmation service (last time it was at Lucas Oil Stadium where the Indianapolis Colts play football) the state-wide homeschool email group has a large number of posts with the subject:  "Community Service Opportunity" and members are posting numerous opportunities for the high school students who are working towards Confirmation to log in "charity" (i.e., Community Service) hours for a variety of "social service organizations".

While I do not object to asking people to volunteer for many of these organizations (of course, I do object to those that promote immoral behavior), the requirement that individuals log in a certain number of Community Service hours in order to be Confirmed smacks of Simony, especially in view of the fact that the Archdiocese and the parishes actually promote "Community Services" for their activities.

Furthermore, it actually decreases the real spirit of "service" making it merely a cost of getting something desired rather than a true self-giving.  Teaching the confirmands the need for sacrifice and self-giving is one thing, making it a requirement to be Confirmed is something else entirely.

But, Neil Obstat, that is what the Conciliar church is.  It is merely another social service institution.  And even it says that it is only one of many such institutions that are good to be involved with.

It's not just a problem in Los Angeles.


Good point, it reminds me of the way judges order service instead of prison. So much of it is really silly and just for show, it doesn't help  the intended population, it makes for nice pics in the diocesan newspaper.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: PerEvangelicaDicta on February 28, 2014, 09:45:06 AM
Quote
*Why Fr. Serra is not a canonized saint, when the likes of Fr. Josemaría Escrivá de Balaguer (Opus Dei founder), or Sister Faustina Kowalska are, and John XXIII and JPII are about to be, is an insult to the truth.  Fr. Serra walked the length of California's coast several times, on foot, and he was halfway crippled.  He made thousands of converts.  Due to his virtue and fortitude and benevolence and apostolic spirit, California had the Mass before it had the Gold Rush, and more missions than the Church had had ecuмenical councils.  There have been many miracles attributed to Fr. Serra, so that's not the hold-up.  He spoke Spanish, so it's not a cultural obstacle.  It must have something to do with politics.


Bravo for this!  My very favorite part of living in SoCal was visiting various missions around the state.  I am now very devoted to Fr. Serra.
(side note: have you seen the masonic imaged mess they've made of the old chapel at Mission San Diego? )

Back to the orignal topic, since the OP is located in Orange County, and proximity seems to be an issue, wouldn't Our Lady Help of Christians be closer than any of the other suggestions?  
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Capt McQuigg on February 28, 2014, 12:19:46 PM
A novus ordo confirmation is a true spiritual disaster and a waste of precious time.  Like Neil said, the only reason to attend any novus ordo function is to see which abuses are being foisted on the novus ordites today (most of the abuses of the past were so well reported that some novus ordo parishes have actually changed the wording).

If you are in Orange County, go to one of those two churches TKGS highlighted.  The SSPX would be acceptable too.


Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: crossbro on February 28, 2014, 12:20:01 PM
Parish shop and leave that parish. A most likely scenario is the priest that allows this lay person to continue is gαy.

Before you leave, write a letter to the false heretic and send copies to the diocese and the priest.

A lot of lay people who "take charge" in these lay orgs get a superiority complex, knock bozo off her podium. How long has this lay person been in the position ? Probably for years and let me tell you right now, if you think you will be the first to bring up the issue, you are wrong.

Make your next Mass your last, write a check out for 1 penny to the priest retirement fund.

And don't let the fact that you invested time or are near Easter to bail, it will just send a louder message. Fire your sponsor while you are at it.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: AgnesRoma on February 28, 2014, 01:36:09 PM
thanks for many information.
what everybody said about Novus Ordo churches are very true.
we are familiar with OLHC ( Our Lady  )  in Garden Grove, CA   we used to go to Mass there and attended some of their catechism class by Mnsg. Perez.
Perhaps , best way to do is attend Mnsg. Perez class, hopefully, it may not be too late for May 25.
Many of the people who attend adult Catechism class does not seems to know much.  
for example most people thought  "Immaculate Conception" is conception of Jesus.
here in Southern California, we had some priest who are traditional, I have heard some  priests such as late Father Johnson at St. Mary by the sea, and late Father Frederick Schell  were not treated very well from their dioceses.
I heard, late Father Johnson were sent to St Mary by the sea, at that time, that church was just about to close down,  but Father Johnson build the church up increased membership, and even bought parking spaces next to the church. here in Orange County, CA, when priest retire, usually diocese place that priest some church and live there, but Father Johnson had to find his own place to live.
I also called
"Our Lady of the Angels Church" in  Arcadia, CA .  they have told me, we have to attend the Mass at their church and register, to get confirmed there.   it seems like there is no class, but person told me we have to take the test.  she did not mention , we can take class at OLHC.
my wife hs been listening to Michael Voris, and watched most of his class he offer in his web site "churchmilitant.tv"  and took some class from Mnsg Perez at OLHC ,  so hopefully she is prepared, and educated.

Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Zeitun on February 28, 2014, 01:49:02 PM
Quote from: TKGS
Contact a Catholic Church:

Fontana
Our Lady of Lourdes Chapel
 Fr. Gerard McKee, CMRI
 Web site:  http://www.ourladyoflourdescmri.blogspot.com/
 16010 Boyle St.
 Fontana, CA 92337
 Sunday Mass: 1:30 p.m.
 Call (909) 829-0997 or (909) 841-8052

or

Los Angeles
Queen of Angels Church
 Fr. Dominic Radecki (RevDominicRgmail.com)
 Web site: http://www.queenofangelscatholicchurch.org
 24244 Newhall Ave.
 Santa Clarita, CA 91321
 Phone:(661) 255-9849
 Rectory: (661) 269-4943
 Cell: (661) 618-0075
 Sunday Masses: 8:00 a.m., 11:00 a.m., 5:00 p.m.

These chapels are close to Orange County according the MapQuest.


Wish I had this info when I lived out there.  :facepalm:
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: AgnesRoma on February 28, 2014, 02:01:25 PM
my wife's  Adult Confirmation teacher, he say he is convert to Catholic church,  and he used to be protestant.  however, his idea is still more protestant than Catholic.  and he is head of Eucharistic Ministers.   His class is based on Question and Answer sessions.  he get irritated, when our answers are traditional, such as many people go to hell,  he rather seems to prefer nobody know the answer, so he can get to tell to the people. so us knowing the answer and our answer are traditional point of view,  that we are screwing up his class. his favorite priest is Father Barron.   in his you tube Video, Father Barron says , "there is reasonable chance to believe all of the people are saved" , he also said  "one must absolutely resist and reject heaven and God,  to order to go to hell"
one time , he was connecting about Papal infallibility, and Pope said being gαy is OK on the air plane, so on.  

so you all can see our pain listening and attending those class and get to listen to Father Barron for 40 minutes.

my wife is intended to write a email to our teacher perhaps to pastor of that church.  
Sad things is that many of those who attend the class do not know much about Catholic teaching,  and they start to believe what our teacher and father Barron teaches is THE teaching of Jesus and Catholic church.  

my wife says, "Fatima's third secret is coming to true. and Jesus coming is near" based on how the condition of Catholic church is today.  I understand Jesus said, things get bad before he come back again.



Quote from: crossbro
Parish shop and leave that parish. A most likely scenario is the priest that allows this lay person to continue is gαy.

Before you leave, write a letter to the false heretic and send copies to the diocese and the priest.

A lot of lay people who "take charge" in these lay orgs get a superiority complex, knock bozo off her podium. How long has this lay person been in the position ? Probably for years and let me tell you right now, if you think you will be the first to bring up the issue, you are wrong.

Make your next Mass your last, write a check out for 1 penny to the priest retirement fund.

And don't let the fact that you invested time or are near Easter to bail, it will just send a louder message. Fire your sponsor while you are at it.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: AgnesRoma on February 28, 2014, 02:05:20 PM
we used to go to OLHC,  however, I am not sure if they offer confirmation.  it seems church in Arcadia , CA  ( SSPX ) is the closest traditional place offer confirmation ?   since, many of those independent traditional church do not have bishop ?

Quote from: Neil Obstat
Quote from: TKGS


Fontana
Our Lady of Lourdes Chapel
 Fr. Gerard McKee, CMRI
 Web site:  http://www.ourladyoflourdescmri.blogspot.com/
 16010 Boyle St.
 Fontana, CA 92337
 Sunday Mass: 1:30 p.m.
 Call (909) 829-0997 or (909) 841-8052



I know Vince and Pat Balderrama very well.  She's very nice.  I'll tell her "hi" from you.  

Quote
or

Los Angeles


Actually, that's Santa Clarita ("Newhall" properly speaking), north of the San Fernando Valley, which is north of Los Angeles proper.  Q of A is about 50 miles north of downtown Los Angeles, and 10 miles outside the city limits.  Orange County is closer than Santa Clarita.

Quote
Queen of Angels Church
 Fr. Dominic Radecki (RevDominicRgmail.com)
 Web site: http://www.queenofangelscatholicchurch.org
 24244 Newhall Ave.
 Santa Clarita, CA 91321
 Phone:(661) 255-9849
 Rectory: (661) 269-4943
 Cell: (661) 618-0075
 Sunday Masses: 8:00 a.m., 11:00 a.m., 5:00 p.m.


I know Fr. Dominic very well.  He's very nice, too.  

Agnes Roma would be much more at home at OLHC, IMHO.  

Agnes Roma is concerned with traveling to Arcadia.  
Why would he want to go twice as far to Fontana or Santa Clarita????????

.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Matto on February 28, 2014, 02:06:58 PM
Never go back there again. :fryingpan: . Make a choice between any local independent chapel, CMRI chapl, or SSPX chapel and go there. If you go to one of those chapels there is a good chance you will learn the true faith and when you get confirmed the sacrament will be valid. Did you know that there are doubts about the validity of Novus Ordo confirmations? That is why the traditional Catholic organizations conditionally confirm people who come to them who were confirmed in the Novus Ordo.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: AgnesRoma on February 28, 2014, 02:12:36 PM
I was mistaken between Alahambra and Acadia
I meant SSPX church in Acadia

according to SSPX web site, one in Arcadia is closest and only place offer Traditional Confirmation in Los Angels and Orange Counties area.

we used to go to OLHC in Garden Grove, they have good Latin Mass and Catholicism class, but I am not sure, if they offer Confirmation.

when I called church in Arcadia, a person told me, I have to be attending mass at their church in Acadia and register there also to get confirm at Our Lady of the Angels in Arcadia, CA

anybody know more about it ?

Quote from: Neil Obstat
.

Clarification:


Quote from: AgnesRoma

my wife say , our teacher is start to get irritated with us.

we are not sure, if we should continue to attend this adult confirmation class or not at this point.

do you all have any suggestion.

we usually attend Latin Mass offered by Diocese in Orange County, CA
but, we are possibly thinking about get confirmation from SSPX, but nearest SSPX church is in Alahambra, more than 1 hour away.



He says "nearest SSPX church is in Alahambra, more than 1 hour away."  

First of all, Alhambra (not Alahambra) is a city east of L.A. where it's the location of an Indult Mass with nice music and High Mass every week, but it's not the SSPX.  SSPX has no chapel in the city of Alhambra.  The only SSPX chapel within 30 miles of Alhambra is in the city of Arcadia, Our Lady of the Angels Catholic Church (not to be confused with Mahony's Our Lady of the Angels so-called cathedral (https://www.olacathedral.org/), in downtown L.A.).  Arcadia is another city in the greater Los Angeles area, located between the city of Pasadena and the city of San Gabriel (where there is a California Mission, built by Fray Junipero Serra*).  

Second of all,  Alhambra isn't "more than 1 hour away" from any part of Orange County, unless you're on a bicycle or taking public transportation.  

Perhaps AgnesRoma uses the city bus to get around, and if so, going to OLHC in Garden Grove would be the perfect solution for Mass and Confirmation and everything else, to boot.



*Why Fr. Serra is not a canonized saint, when the likes of Fr. Josemaría Escrivá de Balaguer (Opus Dei founder), or Sister Faustina Kowalska are, and John XXIII and JPII are about to be, is an insult to the truth.  Fr. Serra walked the length of California's coast several times, on foot, and he was halfway crippled.  He made thousands of converts.  Due to his virtue and fortitude and benevolence and apostolic spirit, California had the Mass before it had the Gold Rush, and more missions than the Church had had ecuмenical councils.  There have been many miracles attributed to Fr. Serra, so that's not the hold-up.  He spoke Spanish, so it's not a cultural obstacle.  It must have something to do with politics.


.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: PG on February 28, 2014, 02:20:28 PM
Angesroma - Avoid the novus ordo!

In S. California, you are basically on your own(baptism is necessary, confirmation can wait)(Fr. Cooper sspx/arcadia is your option for confession)(Fr. Hawker sspx/arcadia came from novus ordo and may have doubtful sacraments)(Msgr. Perez and company along with CMRI have doubtful sacraments).  

You need to purchase the "catechism of the council of trent" by tan books, "open letter to confused catholics" by Abp. Lefebvre/sspx, "time bombs of 2nd vatican council" by Fr. Schmidberger/sspx, and "the sacred and the profane" by Bp. Kelly/sspv(presents the case against validity of Abp. Thus sacraments)(online download available for free).

Until you know what is going on in all of the traditional movement, apply the brakes!

Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: AgnesRoma on February 28, 2014, 02:21:07 PM
we have No FSSP church in Orange or Los Angels counties.
I myself is convert, when I took RCIA in 1992,  their teaching was not this bad as today in southern California. and RCIA class was taught by priest at that time, not liberal Lay person.  
Catholic church changes a lot in last 30 years.
30 years ago, there were people who did not follow teaching of the church, but they all know they are not following it.
today, not only they don't even know teaching of church, but, they know wrong teaching of church.  therefore, they do not follow it.  Their teaching is more like "Unitarian Universalism" , which pretty much teach, God is love, Loving God never send anyone to hell, therefore everybody  go to Heaven.

Quote from: johnb104
I went through this too, and what I would do is seek a Traditional Priest (FSSP, SSPX, etc) so that you can just meet with them once a week or so. He should catechize you one on one and after a period of time will bring you into the church. My RCIA class Priest and cetechist were good, but then again they are the most traditional Novus Ordo that I have ever seen.

There are some RCIA programs that are good, bu most are probably bad. I would go to the FSSP and SSPX websites and look for places to attend Mass.

Pray to Our Lady to help guide you into the Church Her way! If you have the means to travel an hour away if you have to, it will be worth it. You might even find that the Traditional Latin Mass is said very close to you!

I'll pray for you and hope that you are led to a Traditional Priest who will help you and your family. God bless you.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: PG on February 28, 2014, 02:47:33 PM
AgnusRoma - Fr. Clement Procopio is also a traditional validly ordained priest in the LA area, however, his chapel(owned by Mel Gibson)(pre-1955 rite) is private, and I am not sure that I recommend it(due to Gibson's public scandalous behavior).  But, it is useful information and worth sharing.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Matto on February 28, 2014, 02:59:27 PM
Quote from: + PG +
(Msgr. Perez and company along with CMRI have doubtful sacraments).

I just would like to say that I do not think the CMRI sacraments are doubtful. They are Thuc line, I believe and people sometimes say that the Thuc line priests and bishops are not valid because they accuse Thuc of being insane.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Frances on February 28, 2014, 03:11:30 PM
Quote from: Matto
... people sometimes say that the Thuc line priests and bishops are not valid because they accuse Thuc of being insane.


 :dancing-banana:  :roll-laugh1:
Never heard this one!  St. John Bosco was similarly accused by his bishop.  Several Resistance priests are also said to be insane.  
 :tinfoil:Uh-oh.  Maybe I'm insane!
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: AgnesRoma on February 28, 2014, 03:26:24 PM
I looked his chapel up in google , and I found following.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_Holy_Family_%28Agoura_Hills,_California%29
it seems like nice chapel.  but, it is too far away from where we live in Orange County, Westminster area.
I like to visit there one of these day, but I assume, I have to be invited ?

Quote from: + PG +
AgnusRoma - Fr. Clement Procopio is also a traditional validly ordained priest in the LA area, however, his chapel(owned by Mel Gibson)(pre-1955 rite) is private, and I am not sure that I recommend it(due to Gibson's public scandalous behavior).  But, it is useful information and worth sharing.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 28, 2014, 04:10:43 PM
Quote from: AgnesRoma
we used to go to OLHC,  however, I am not sure if they offer confirmation.  it seems church in Arcadia , CA  ( SSPX ) is the closest traditional place offer confirmation ?   since, many of those independent traditional church do not have bishop ?



If you used to go to OLHC then why did you go back to the diocese parish?  Don't you understand that the reason you have the correct answers to the stupid questions in these Novordien Feelgood Classes is BECAUSE you have learned about the True Faith and the Church Outside of which There Is No Salvation, and that's BECAUSE you learned about it at OLHC?  

If not for Monsignor Perez, you wouldn't be any better off than the rest of the ignorant students in this prep class.  

As for the bishop, how do you think Msgr. became a Msgr. -- by osmosis?  He has a bishop.  In fact, he has two bishops.  Maybe you didn't know that.

There could be a lot you don't know if you don't show up!!

If you were still going to OLHC you would have heard the announcement about the upcoming confirmations in Arcadia, and that you can take the classes, prepare for the test, register your Baptism Certificate, and be approved for the SSPX Confirmation in May without having to go to Arcadia but ONCE -- for the Confirmation.  You can do all of the preparations in Garden Grove.  

You're missing out by not continuing to go to OLHC.  


Why did you leave?


Quote
Quote from: Neil Obstat
Quote from: TKGS


Fontana
Our Lady of Lourdes Chapel
 Fr. Gerard McKee, CMRI
 Web site:  http://www.ourladyoflourdescmri.blogspot.com/
 16010 Boyle St.
 Fontana, CA 92337
 Sunday Mass: 1:30 p.m.
 Call (909) 829-0997 or (909) 841-8052



I know Vince and Pat Balderrama very well.  She's very nice (so is he).  I'll tell them "hi" from you............... unless you don't want me to, that is.

Quote
or

Los Angeles


Actually, that's Santa Clarita ("Newhall" properly speaking), north of the San Fernando Valley, which is north of Los Angeles proper.  Q of A is about 50 miles north of downtown Los Angeles, and 10 miles outside the city limits.  Orange County is closer than Santa Clarita.

Quote
Queen of Angels Church
 Fr. Dominic Radecki (RevDominicRgmail.com)
 Web site: http://www.queenofangelscatholicchurch.org
 24244 Newhall Ave.
 Santa Clarita, CA 91321
 Phone:(661) 255-9849
 Rectory: (661) 269-4943
 Cell: (661) 618-0075
 Sunday Masses: 8:00 a.m., 11:00 a.m., 5:00 p.m.


I know Fr. Dominic very well.  He's very nice, too.  

Agnes Roma would be much more at home at OLHC, IMHO.  

Agnes Roma is concerned with traveling to Arcadia.  
Why would he want to go twice as far to Fontana or Santa Clarita????????

.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 28, 2014, 04:45:22 PM
Quote from: AgnesRoma
thanks for many information.
what everybody said about Novus Ordo churches are very true.
we are familiar with OLHC ( Our Lady  )  in Garden Grove, CA   we used to go to Mass there and attended some of their catechism class by Mnsg. Perez.
Perhaps , best way to do is attend Mnsg. Perez class, hopefully, it may not be too late for May 25.


This is Friday, Feb. 28th, and Sunday is March 2nd.  It's not too late.  
Go to Mass at OLHC this Sunday and read the bulletin, listen to the sermon and announcements, and ask any questions after Mass that you may have.  

You can still register and qualify at OLHC to be Confirmed this May in Arcadia.  But if you put it off and procrastinate, you might show up there for Mass during Lent, for example, to find that you just missed the deadline.  Don't wait.  Go to Mass at OLHC.  It's a great place for everything.  There are people all over the world who wished they had a chapel like that nearby.

 You don't know how fortunate you are!!!


Quote
Many of the people who attend adult Catechism class does not seems to know much.  
for example most people thought  "Immaculate Conception" is conception of Jesus.


This error that the I.C. was regarding Our Lord in the womb of Our Lady was an error taught as early as 1960 at Jefferson Bellarmine High School in Burbank.  So if it was taught there, it was probably making the rounds contemporaneously with Vat.II all over the world.  Why not?  Our Lady said that in 1960 the Third Secret would be clearer.  Looks like She was right....... as usual!  (I'd like to say "infallible," but I don't want to upset the sedes.)

Quote
here in Southern California, we had some priest who are traditional, I have heard some  priests such as late Father Johnson at St. Mary by the sea, and late Father Frederick Schell  were not treated very well from their dioceses.


Two fine priests.  The world is much poorer without them.  One of Fr. Schell's greatest virtues was his ability and willingness to take individuals under his care to tutor them in the faith.  He was all business and not a moment to waste.  He had zero time for anything unimportant. But he MADE time for everything important.  I can testify to this by personal experience.  He put up with a lot and never gave any scandal to anyone.  His life is a living witness to what holiness is and what it can be for each and every one of us.  He made many converts and baptized many adults and children.  He traveled the world.  In eternity he will have a small army of faithful who owe to him their very salvation.  God Bless Father Schell.

Quote
I heard, late Father Johnson were sent to St Mary by the sea, at that time, that church was just about to close down,  but Father Johnson build the church up increased membership, and even bought parking spaces next to the church. here in Orange County, CA, when priest retire, usually diocese place that priest some church and live there, but Father Johnson had to find his own place to live.

I also called "Our Lady of the Angels Church" in  Arcadia, CA .  they have told me, we have to attend the Mass at their church and register, to get confirmed there.   it seems like there is no class, but person told me we have to take the test.  she did not mention , we can take class at OLHC.


I'm not surprised that the office didn't mention that you can take the prep classes and register at OLHC.  That has happened in the previous many years that this cooperation has been going on.  Nor should you pester the SSPX office with questions about OLHC.  Just go to Garden Grove and register and take the test and then you can go to Arcadia on the appointed day, with the other candidates and sponsors from OLHC, under Msgr. Perez,  and be confirmed along with all the candidates from OLA, Arcadia, under Fr. Cooper, SSPX.

Quote
my wife hs been listening to Michael Voris, and watched most of his class he offer in his web site "churchmilitant.tv"  and took some class from Mnsg Perez at OLHC,  so hopefully she is prepared, and educated.



Your wife became educated at OLHC by paying attention.  If you keep going there you will keep learning.  If you stop going there you could stop learning.

Just go there.

.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 28, 2014, 05:10:10 PM
Quote from: AgnesRoma
I was mistaken between Alahambra and Acadia
I meant SSPX church in Acadia


You meant to say, "Arcadia" not Acadia, I'm sure.

Quote
according to SSPX web site, one in Arcadia is closest and only place offer Traditional Confirmation in Los Angels and Orange Counties area.


Yes, that's correct.  But there is information MISSING.  They're not telling you on the website about OLHC (maybe they should!), but if you go to OLHC you can find out.  I'm telling you this so you can know about it, or anyone else who wants to know about it.  This is a public forum.

Quote
we used to go to OLHC in Garden Grove, they have good Latin Mass and Catholicism class, but I am not sure, if they offer Confirmation.


What they offer is the service of preparation for the Arcadia SSPX Confirmations.  Fr. Schell had this arrangement with the SSPX and Fr. Prerez continues it.  This has been going on for about 30 years already.  It's nothing new.  Sometimes the confirmations were in Colton SSPX.  This year there are none in Colton but the Colton chapel and the Burbank Archangel Gabriel Chapel and the GG OLHC Chapel will all send their candidates to Arcadia for one event there on May 25th.  

It could turn out to be a rather crowded church on that day.

Quote
when I called church in Arcadia, a person told me, I have to be attending mass at their church in Acadia and register there also to get confirm at Our Lady of the Angels in Arcadia, CA

anybody know more about it ?



Do Not Call Arcadia asking about OLHC.  Just go to OLHC -- you know the way there because you already have been there.  Do you want a ride or something?  You can probably carpool to Mass if you show up.  There are people coming from 30 miles in every direction for DAILY MASS there.  If all the Catholics would show up, there wouldn't be standing room for a mile for everyone (there are 2 million Catholics in Orange County).  The SWAT team might show up, though, for crowd control.

(S.W.A.T. was developed in Los Angeles under "The Chief," Daryl Gates.)


Quote
Quote from: Neil Obstat
.

Clarification:


Quote from: AgnesRoma

my wife say , our teacher is start to get irritated with us.

we are not sure, if we should continue to attend this adult confirmation class or not at this point.

do you all have any suggestion.

we usually attend Latin Mass offered by Diocese in Orange County, CA
but, we are possibly thinking about get confirmation from SSPX, but nearest SSPX church is in Alahambra, more than 1 hour away.



AgnesRoma says, "nearest SSPX church is in Alahambra, more than 1 hour away."  

First of all, Alhambra (not Alahambra) is a city east of L.A. where it's the location of an Indult Mass with nice music and High Mass every week, but it's not the SSPX.  SSPX has no chapel in the city of Alhambra.  The only SSPX chapel within 30 miles of Alhambra is in the city of Arcadia, Our Lady of the Angels Catholic Church (not to be confused with Mahony's Our Lady of the Angels so-called cathedral (https://www.olacathedral.org/), in downtown L.A.).  Arcadia is another city in the greater Los Angeles area, located between the city of Pasadena and the city of San Gabriel (where there is a California Mission, built by Fray Junipero Serra*).  

Second of all,  Alhambra isn't "more than 1 hour away" from any part of Orange County, unless you're on a bicycle or taking public transportation.  

Perhaps AgnesRoma uses the city bus to get around, and if so, going to OLHC in Garden Grove would be the perfect solution for Mass and Confirmation and everything else, to boot.



*Why Fr. Serra is not a canonized saint, when the likes of Fr. Josemaría Escrivá de Balaguer (Opus Dei founder), or Sister Faustina Kowalska are, and John XXIII and JPII are about to be, is an insult to the truth.  Fr. Serra walked the length of California's coast several times, on foot, and he was halfway crippled.  He made thousands of converts.  Due to his virtue and fortitude and benevolence and apostolic spirit, California had the Mass before it had the Gold Rush, and more missions than the Church had had ecuмenical councils.  There have been many miracles attributed to Fr. Serra, so that's not the hold-up.  He spoke Spanish, so it's not a cultural obstacle.  It must have something to do with politics.


.




As for posts like the following, do not pay any attention to them because there is a lot of disinformation going around.  It should look like this:

Quote from: + PG +
Angesroma - Avoid the novus ordo!

In S. California, you are basically on your own(baptism is necessary, confirmation can wait)(Fr. Cooper sspx/arcadia is your option for confession)(Fr. Hawker sspx/arcadia came from novus ordo and may have doubtful sacraments)(Msgr. Perez and company along with CMRI have doubtful sacraments).  

You need to purchase the "catechism of the council of trent" by tan books, "open letter to confused catholics" by Abp. Lefebvre/sspx, "time bombs of 2nd vatican council" by Fr. Schmidberger/sspx, and "the sacred and the profane" by Bp. Kelly/sspv(presents the case against validity of Abp. Thus sacraments)(online download available for free).

Until you know what is going on in all of the traditional movement, apply the brakes!



Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 28, 2014, 05:25:40 PM
Quote from: crossbro
Parish shop and leave that parish.


AgnesRoma already knows where to go:  OLHC.  He's already been there.

Quote
A most likely scenario is the priest that allows this lay person to continue is gαy.

Before you leave, write a letter to the false heretic and send copies to the diocese and the priest.


Unfortunately, such letters often accomplish the OPPOSITE effect.  I have known several people who wrote letters to the bishop or to Rome, complaining about a layman or a priest abusing his office, and the only thing that came of it was the layman or priest was then given MORE POWER to practice MORE ABUSE, almost as if the complaint letters were viewed as PROOF that the agenda was WORKING and that the liberalism was spreading as it "should."

Quote
A lot of lay people who "take charge" in these lay orgs get a superiority complex, knock bozo off her podium. How long has this lay person been in the position ?  Probably for years, and let me tell you right now, if you think you will be the first to bring up the issue, you are wrong.


In MANY cases, not just 'some cases', such 'BOZOS' are given more power and continue in their position BECAUSE of the complaint letters.  

Quote
Make your next Mass your last, write a check out for 1 penny to the priest retirement fund.


Why waste a good check?  Why waste a good penny?  

Just write a NOTE.  Put it inside the donation envelope and SEAL IT.  Write on the note inside the envelope the reason you're leaving and give some examples of the lies and heresies you have seen in practice there.  Tell them how they're wrong and where their sin is.  Don't mince your words.  A good note will be far more effective than even one penny.  They'll read the note.  They'll just spend the penny.  

Quote
And don't let the fact that you invested time or are near Easter to bail, it will just send a louder message. Fire your sponsor while you are at it.


.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: PG on February 28, 2014, 05:35:00 PM
Matto - yes, you have basically heard correctly.  But, I will rephrase it. Trad catholics reject his consecrations because they do not believe that he(post v2) was mentally competent.  His actions lead one to believe that he was not in possession of his faculties.  It is the sspv clergy and laity as a whole to be specific who hold to this.

"The nine" split over the issue of the validity of consecrations by Abp. Thuc.  The split was not(as you may have been led to believe by Fr. Dolan and Fr. Sanborn) because Fr. Kelly(as the superior) "lorded" over them.  They split because after a serious investigation into the consecrations(where they all agreed the consecrations were doubtful - which required them to be treated as invalid in the practical order), Fr. Sanborn flip flopped and decided to accept them despite what canon lawyers had taught concerning the relationship between mental state and validity.

The life of and consecrations by Thuc, the investigation of the consecrations by "the nine", and the events that followed are all thoroughly docuмented in this book(online copy) that you will not hear about on restoration radio(Bp. Kelly provides names and dates, and the gloves are off) -

http://congregationofstpiusv.net/SacredandProfane.pdf
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Matto on February 28, 2014, 05:41:27 PM
I am not an expert on this matter. Here is a defense of the Thuc ordinations and consecration. It is long but I am posting it for anyone who is interested. This address was given at a CMRI conference.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/embed/iLJIqLd5Gh8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen[/youtube]
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: AgnesRoma on February 28, 2014, 05:44:38 PM
if we can go to take class and attend Mass at "Our Lady Help of Christian" in Garden Grove , that is best for us.   we have attended Mngr Perez Wednesday night class for a while, may be half year.  I am contacted OLHC, and they said they will get back with me.
we have not really left OLHC , however, we are church hopper.  we just go to different churches, time to time,  OLHC is one of our church.  thanks for information.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: PG on February 28, 2014, 05:53:33 PM
Francis - For the longest time I too hadn't heard about this.  I had to become my own church historian and canon lawyer.  I relied on the word of those who point the finger at the idea of judging the pope and not at the idea of committing potential sacrilege for about a year before stumbling upon this docuмent.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: PG on February 28, 2014, 06:03:33 PM
Matto - cmon, this isn't fair  :laugh1: - videos are so much easier than books.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Matto on February 28, 2014, 06:05:00 PM
Quote from: + PG +
Matto - cmon, this isn't fair  :laugh1: - videos are so much easier than books.


Sorry for taking this thread off course.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: PG on February 28, 2014, 06:14:25 PM
Matto - I sense no dirty tactics with you.

Neil Obstat - you are the only one looking suspicious of disinformation by posting an entire page's worth of quotes and opinion in order to leave my post in the past. And, nobody wants to have to click through 20 pages of discussion in order to learn something.  Surely, we don't all have high speed internet.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: TKGS on February 28, 2014, 06:28:52 PM
Quote from: + PG +
(Msgr. Perez and company along with CMRI have doubtful sacraments).  


There is no doubt of the validity of CMRI sacraments.  However, if you have evidence that they are not, please share it, otherwise your comments are pure calumny.  Sacraments are presumed to be valid unless there is positive evidence that they may be invalid, not the other way round.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: PG on February 28, 2014, 06:31:44 PM
Neil Obstat - Concerning the Fr. Perez Msgr. title(made a Msgr. specifically in order to be chaplain to o.s.j.), Fr. Cekada has this to say -

http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=56&catname=1
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: PG on February 28, 2014, 06:37:08 PM
TKGS - you are wrong concerning the seven sacraments.  You have it backwards.  And, I did provide a link with evidence defending my position.  Please review!  
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: PG on February 28, 2014, 06:50:52 PM
TKGS - I think what happened was that when you saw all of Neil Obstats copy and pasted posts, you had to speed up so as not to fall asleep, and you accidentally missed seeing my comment to matto(which had the link to the docuмent).  But, it can also be found here -

 http://congregationofstpiusv.net/SacredandProfane.pdf
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: TKGS on February 28, 2014, 06:51:02 PM
Quote from: + PG +
TKGS - you are wrong concerning the seven sacraments.  You have it backwards.  And, I did provide a link with evidence defending my position.  Please review!  


You are the first person I have ever heard claim that all sacraments are presumed to be invalid unless there is positive evidence that the sacraments are valid.

Your claim is interesting.  I guess you must fully accept the Novus Ordo Annulment machine since it also seems to operate under the premise that marriages are invalid unless proven to be valid.

From which theologian did you discover this gem or did you make it up?

On Bishop Kelly's book:  I have read it and there are numerous refutations available in many places, including the video posted above.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: PG on February 28, 2014, 06:54:47 PM
TGKS - correction - with the exception of baptism and holy matrimony.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: PG on February 28, 2014, 07:05:53 PM
TKGS - actually I may have been wrong about saying baptism in my last post as well.  Don't chew at me for that one.  I did all of my research quite a while ago, but it is useful even if it doesn't come out eloquently the first time.  It eventually will.

And, I have every right to post what I posted concerning CMRI and Perez sacraments, it was not calumny in any way to post as I did.  I presented it in a respectful manner, and I provided my list of docuмents for reference.  Don't be wrongfully accusing me.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: PG on February 28, 2014, 08:03:15 PM
TKGS - why would you play dumb if you had already read Bp. Kelly's book?  Did you not read the entirety of my post before you chose to accuse me of calumny(if you did, than the fault is on you)?  

CMRI have Thuc sacraments.  Can you not do the math, resulting therefore in there being trads that reject them?  As for Fr. Perez, he was ordained(yes, in the old rite) by Cardinal Stickler(who was consecrated in the new rite).  

AgnusRoma is clearly new to tradition(so new that he or she doesn't yet know to avoid the NO).  So I will indeed share what I believe is important from the start, even if it is controversial.  
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: IllyricumSacrum on February 28, 2014, 08:16:08 PM
Quote from: + PG +
Matto - yes, you have basically heard correctly.  But, I will rephrase it. Trad catholics reject his consecrations because they do not believe that he(post v2) was mentally competent.  His actions lead one to believe that he was not in possession of his faculties.  It is the sspv clergy and laity as a whole to be specific who hold to this.

"The nine" split over the issue of the validity of consecrations by Abp. Thuc.  The split was not(as you may have been led to believe by Fr. Dolan and Fr. Sanborn) because Fr. Kelly(as the superior) "lorded" over them.  They split because after a serious investigation into the consecrations(where they all agreed the consecrations were doubtful - which required them to be treated as invalid in the practical order), Fr. Sanborn flip flopped and decided to accept them despite what canon lawyers had taught concerning the relationship between mental state and validity.

The life of and consecrations by Thuc, the investigation of the consecrations by "the nine", and the events that followed are all thoroughly docuмented in this book(online copy) that you will not hear about on restoration radio(Bp. Kelly provides names and dates, and the gloves are off) -

http://congregationofstpiusv.net/SacredandProfane.pdf


Its still Fr. Kelly, not bishop. Kelly (a veteran of military intelligence and all the baggage that comes with it) only claimed to have been consecrated some time after the physically and mentally ailing +Mendez had passed away. No photographic evidence exists of the ceremony which was said to have been done in private, in a small room with only one witness. It seems the cultish SSPV suffers from projection.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Thorn on February 28, 2014, 08:41:20 PM
Why is it that every single time someone comes on here inquiring about where to go to Mass it immediately goes off into 10 different tangents & the arguments get more heated as the pages pile up?

Neil, why are you so insistent that AgnesRoma go to OLHC??!!  They were already there & left for whatever reason.  And why are you pushing them to be confirmed RIGHT NOW?  Confirmation isn't necessary for salvation.  It would better for them to wait & be confirmed next year when they have  a better grounding in the faith.  What's the rush?

AngesRoma, just go to Arcadia at Our Lady of the Angels on the corner of Duarte Rd. & TempleCity Blvd.  It's not that far from Westminster & it should take you 45 minutes as there's little traffic on Sun.  Masses are 7:30 & 10. All the other churches are too far  and OLHC under Fr. Perez is controversial so don't bother.  You already left there.   Just from reading your posts I think you will find many like-minded people at Arcadia.  You write like you are possibly Vietnamese & there are MANY Vietnamese in Arcadia.   You'll like it.  Were you in the Vietnamese class while you were at Fr. Perez's OLHC?
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Thorn on February 28, 2014, 08:47:27 PM
Fr. Perez has TWO bishops??!!!!   Are you serious, Neil?  Is this for real?  He needs 2 bishops?  Why?
What are these Bishops' names, please.  Where are their dioceses?  One's in India, where's the other?
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: PG on February 28, 2014, 09:14:54 PM
illyricuмsacrum - I thank God that you found your way to these posts!  All of the docuмentation with pictures can be found in the first link below(there were three witnesses present who signed under oath, and multiple priests taking part in the ceremony as prescribed); it was held in Bp. Mendez's private chapel.  The online page 12 of 23 shows pictures of the consecration step by step with photocopies of all of the legal docuмentation  -

http://congregationofstpiusv.net/Consecration%20of%20Bishop%20Kelly.pdf

This is what I meant in my previous post to matto about the disinformation about Bp. Kelly and the breakup of the nine.

Please read Sacred and Profane, and read the rest of the articles found on their sites.

http://congregationofstpiusv.net/index.html
http://www.stpiusvchapel.org/
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: crossbro on February 28, 2014, 09:46:15 PM
Quote from: AgnesRoma
my wife's  Adult Confirmation teacher, he say he is convert to Catholic church,  and he used to be protestant.  however, his idea is still more protestant than Catholic.  and he is head of Eucharistic Ministers.   His class is based on Question and Answer sessions.  he get irritated, when our answers are traditional, such as many people go to hell,  he rather seems to prefer nobody know the answer, so he can get to tell to the people. so us knowing the answer and our answer are traditional point of view,  that we are screwing up his class. his favorite priest is Father Barron.   in his you tube Video, Father Barron says , "there is reasonable chance to believe all of the people are saved" , he also said  "one must absolutely resist and reject heaven and God,  to order to go to hell"
one time , he was connecting about Papal infallibility, and Pope said being gαy is OK on the air plane, so on.  

so you all can see our pain listening and attending those class and get to listen to Father Barron for 40 minutes.

my wife is intended to write a email to our teacher perhaps to pastor of that church.  
Sad things is that many of those who attend the class do not know much about Catholic teaching,  and they start to believe what our teacher and father Barron teaches is THE teaching of Jesus and Catholic church.  

my wife says, "Fatima's third secret is coming to true. and Jesus coming is near" based on how the condition of Catholic church is today.  I understand Jesus said, things get bad before he come back again.



Quote from: crossbro
Parish shop and leave that parish. A most likely scenario is the priest that allows this lay person to continue is gαy.

Before you leave, write a letter to the false heretic and send copies to the diocese and the priest.

A lot of lay people who "take charge" in these lay orgs get a superiority complex, knock bozo off her podium. How long has this lay person been in the position ? Probably for years and let me tell you right now, if you think you will be the first to bring up the issue, you are wrong.

Make your next Mass your last, write a check out for 1 penny to the priest retirement fund.

And don't let the fact that you invested time or are near Easter to bail, it will just send a louder message. Fire your sponsor while you are at it.


Ask the confirmation teacher about Jesus saying hell is a lake of fire...

Then defend Jesus.

Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: AgnesRoma on February 28, 2014, 10:01:40 PM
some reason, I can not watch this youtube video, can you post actual link in text for me ?

Quote from: Matto
I am not an expert on this matter. Here is a defense of the Thuc ordinations and consecration. It is long but I am posting it for anyone who is interested. This address was given at a CMRI conference.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/embed/iLJIqLd5Gh8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen[/youtube]
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: AgnesRoma on February 28, 2014, 10:40:59 PM
thanks for many information and from other.
I will read docuмents carefully later.  
We are new to Latin Mass community.  we have been attending Latin mass since 2011.
we did not even know anything about SSPX, OLHC in Garden Grove, FSSP, Institute Christ King, so on.  matter fact, we did not know much about Catholicism.
my wife did not go Catholic church for over 30 years, I have not been attending Catholic church for close to 10 years.
then, we start to going regular church ( Novus Ordo ) , she immediately notice there is a big change in 30 years,  I also notice change in 10 years.  now church become much more social, and people greet each other chit chat before mass, and during "peace be with you" session, parishioner walk around greet people and chit chat.  
and after the mass, they all clap hands.  
some church during mass, they are all raising hand in the air, saying something.
we thought their behavior are very strange, we suspected, we may came to wrong church ( protestant church ) by mistake.
I think here in Southern California,  Novus Ordo Mass can be very different from other parts of US.
even though , we have not been to church for long time,  may be because, we did not go to the church long time, those behavior look very strange to us.
I suppose, those changes are gradual, so many people do not notice it, but for us, it was shock.
I heard, somebody saying Pope Benedict 16th point at bottom of door, and said his authority end at line there.  

it is true that Dioceses Latin Mass do not teach much,  may be exception of  Fr. Michael Rodriguez in Texas.

I found Michael Voris had guest asking Pope to admit SSPX and other similar churches into communion.   hope, this will happen.

we probably plan to go to OLHC in Garden Grove, if she can get confirmed through them at Arcadia.  we have been switching churches about every 6 months, so it is about time to switch again.   OLHC is only 5 miles from us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e9G5U4GFbk&feature=share&list=UUX17igkZ9JhU64JoTBVSWeQ&index=2

http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/2014/02/pope-francis-and-sspx-opportunity.html


Quote from: + PG +
illyricuмsacrum - I thank God that you found your way to these posts!  All of the docuмentation with pictures can be found in the first link below(there were three witnesses present who signed under oath, and multiple priests taking part in the ceremony as prescribed); it was held in Bp. Mendez's private chapel.  The online page 12 of 23 shows pictures of the consecration step by step with photocopies of all of the legal docuмentation  -

http://congregationofstpiusv.net/Consecration%20of%20Bishop%20Kelly.pdf

This is what I meant in my previous post to matto about the disinformation about Bp. Kelly and the breakup of the nine.

Please read Sacred and Profane, and read the rest of the articles found on their sites.

http://congregationofstpiusv.net/index.html
http://www.stpiusvchapel.org/
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: poche on February 28, 2014, 10:52:27 PM
Adult Confirmation Class is taught by Lay Person, not priest.
and he teach very liberal Catholicism. such as, gαy is OK, everybody go to Heaven, using Father Barron's video.

he also use that Pope said "who are there to judge gαy" as that he suggest now Catholic church tech ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ are no longer sin, so on.

That is a very incorrect description of Pope Francis. When he was Cardinal Bergoglio he was a thorn in the side of the Kirchner government over that very issue.  
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: poche on February 28, 2014, 10:54:22 PM
such as what is the first reading ? "Epistle ?" "What is That ?"
"what priest wear under vest during mass ?", "Alb" "No" I did not know Novus ordo priest do not wear Alb.

The priests who say the mass according to the Novus Ordo are supposed to wear an alb.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 28, 2014, 11:30:32 PM
.

This is an interesting post:


Quote from: AgnesRoma
thanks for many information and from other.
I will read docuмents carefully later.  
We are new to Latin Mass community.  we have been attending Latin mass since 2011.
we did not even know anything about SSPX, OLHC in Garden Grove, FSSP, Institute Christ King, so on.  matter fact, we did not know much about Catholicism.
my wife did not go Catholic church for over 30 years, I have not been attending Catholic church for close to 10 years.
then, we start to going regular church ( Novus Ordo ) , she immediately notice there is a big change in 30 years,  I also notice change in 10 years.  now church become much more social, and people greet each other chit chat before mass, and during "peace be with you" session, parishioner walk around greet people and chit chat.  
and after the mass, they all clap hands.  
some church during mass, they are all raising hand in the air, saying something.


You have received the grace of perception, having been away for a number of years and now you are shocked by the changes that you see all at one time.  This grace is something to be thankful for!

When they raise their arms and speak, it is during the Our Father, which normally comes after the Consecration.  Traditionally, only the celebrant prays the Pater Noster.  The Newmass has the whole congregation saying it, and the charismatics (started 1965 during Vat.II) make it into some kind of "experience" that they get excited over.  It is not unlike the seeking of mystical experience that "evangelical protestants" and Medjugorje groupies like to do.  We are not supposed to seek after being titillated and entertained by religion.  It is not about seeking such pleasures.

Traditionally, when we go to church we are supposed to be able to seek a quiet place to find communion with God on a personal level.  It is a God-centered orientation that we look for and take comfort in finding.  

Quote
we thought their behavior are very strange, we suspected, we may came to wrong church ( protestant church ) by mistake.
I think here in Southern California,  Novus Ordo Mass can be very different from other parts of US.


There is another thread with a video from a diocese parish (Good Shepherd) in the midwest where they do all these things and more, and they're proud of it!  They say "this is what makes our faith community unique!"  So now, being "different" is thought to be a GOOD thing.  That's the unclean spirit of Vat.II in action.  Before Vat.II, the Mass was the same everywhere in the world and all the restaurants and shops were different.  Today, all the Newchurch Newmasses are different all over the world, but McDonald's is the same.  IHOP is the same.  Macy's is the same.  Wal*Mart is the same.  You can get the same Coca-cola in France that you can in Australia or Canada or Tierra del Fuego or Okinawa.  But the Newmass will be different, perhaps unrecognizable one to the next.


Quote
even though , we have not been to church for long time,  may be because, we did not go to the church long time, those behavior look very strange to us.
I suppose, those changes are gradual, so many people do not notice it, but for us, it was shock.
I heard, somebody saying Pope Benedict 16th point at bottom of door, and said his authority end at line there.  

it is true that Dioceses Latin Mass do not teach much,  may be exception of  Fr. Michael Rodriguez in Texas.

I found Michael Voris had guest asking Pope to admit SSPX and other similar churches into communion.   hope, this will happen.

we probably plan to go to OLHC in Garden Grove, if she can get confirmed through them at Arcadia.  we have been switching churches about every 6 months, so it is about time to switch again.   OLHC is only 5 miles from us.




There are millions of people all over the world who would love to have a Mass center like OLHC, only 5 miles away from their home.  You don't know how blessed you are, AgnusRoma!


You have the grace of discernment and the grace of a nearby chapel.  Some would say you have the whole universe in the palm of your hand.  

(I embedded the video, below, for you)

Quote


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/embed/6e9G5U4GFbk[/youtube]



http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/2014/02/pope-francis-and-sspx-opportunity.html



AgnusRoma, don't bother trying to understand poche's posts because you'll only get closer to being as confused as poche is.

.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Neil Obstat on March 01, 2014, 12:01:38 AM
.

This video (church militant TV, linked above) is rampant with disinformation, mistakes, ignorance, falsehood and innuendo.  

There are so many objective errors it would take three times the duration of the film to write them all down.  

Voris congratulates Patrick Archbold on a "great article" when it's a nonstop list of blunders.  

This is two uninformed lemmings pumping each other up without any basis in reality.  It's all subjective gobbledegook.  The SSPX is not "outside the Church" and the SSPX is not "too far gone" -- that is, unless they are all-too-eager for a 'practical agreement' with modernist Rome, so much so that they're willing to set doctrine aside and "work out our differences," like both GREC and now Michael Voris are gung-ho about.  

But according to these loonies:

The SSPX is juridically separated from the Church, not in full communion, outside the family, too far gone, far off the reservation, outside the Church, has kicked themselves out by their illicit consecration of bishops.  These people have hardened their position with pride that WILL NOT ALLOW reconciliation -- we all know about that from our personal lives....

This is all so transparent, and pathetic.  


.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Neil Obstat on March 01, 2014, 12:11:11 AM
.

I tried to post this earlier but for whatever reason it would not go through......


Quote from: Thorn
Why is it that every single time someone comes on here inquiring about where to go to Mass it immediately goes off into 10 different tangents & the arguments get more heated as the pages pile up?



The reason posts pile up is because members like to push their personal agendas instead of just providing the facts so an inquisitive member can make up their own mind.  Like this post by Thorn, for example.


Quote
Neil, why are you so insistent that AgnesRoma go to OLHC??!!  They were already there & left for whatever reason.  And why are you pushing them to be confirmed RIGHT NOW?  Confirmation isn't necessary for salvation.  It would better for them to wait & be confirmed next year when they have  a better grounding in the faith.  What's the rush?



I'm not "pushing them," you are.  

I've been looking at what they're facing, what they're asking for, and what they need, and OLHC makes the most sense, obviously, all considered.  The only reason they'd be reluctant to go to OLHC is because they're confused by YOU and others like YOU.  I'm merely providing sensible balance for their decision.  

I'm not pushing for them to be confirmed RIGHT NOW.  They were asking where to be confirmed, and I'm telling them where and how.  They already called Arcadia and asked but Arcadia told them they "really should be coming to Mass here" to be confirmed there.  They took that at face value, and I'm saying they have to realize this has been this way for 30 years, that Arcadia has the same sales pitch they always have had.  The difficulty for AgnusRoma to travel to Arcadia is apparently of no concern to Arcadia's office spokesperson OR TO YOU, THORN, because it's not something that fits into your personal agenda.  If you were honest and could put aside your personal animosity for whatever, you'd leave it alone.  But obviously that's not what you're about, is it?  

So Confrimation isn't necessary for salvation?  HA!  What's not necessary for salvation is for them to read posts by THORN and "+PG+"  and others who are bent on puffing themselves up with pride.  A good traditional Confirmation is a grace that is available to anyone within reach, and we are at a time in history when it is available right now, but it might NOT be available before too long.  There have been other times when this has occurred.  Take Japan in the 17th century, for example.  Several generations went by with no confirmations.

If they qualify for Confirmation now, why should they wait?  After having that extra spiritual strength, they'll be all the more able to keep attending Mass and classes and learn about the Faith of Catholics.  

Most people who become strong Catholics know just the basics when they are confirmed and then they proceed to learn the bulk of their Faith AFTER Confirmation.  There's nothing unusual about that.


Quote
AngesRoma, just go to Arcadia at Our Lady of the Angels on the corner of Duarte Rd. & TempleCity Blvd.  It's not that far from Westminster & it should take you 45 minutes as there's little traffic on Sun.


Now who's being "pushy?"!  They already said it's out of their range.  And you know better??  What if you had to take a bus or get a ride from someone and had to listen to others giving advice?  

Or, are you going to drive to Orange County and pick them up, and give them a lift to Arcadia every week, and take them home again afterwards?

Quote
Masses are 7:30 & 10. All the other churches are too far


Too far, eh?   That's a lie.

Quote
and OLHC under Fr. Perez is controversial so don't bother.


Oh, "controversial" is it?  Now we're getting to the crux of the matter.  Thorn met up with something Thorn didn't like at OLHC and Thorn is practicing the sin of detraction by going on the Internet to spew hatred far and wide.  

Okay, now it makes sense.  Now I understand.  It took 55 posts for it to come out, but here it is, finally.  

One member asks one question about Confirmation and Thorn tries to turn the thread into a CALUMNY thread.  

Gotcha.

Quote
You already left there.   Just from reading your posts I think you will find many like-minded people at Arcadia.  You write like you are possibly Vietnamese & there are MANY Vietnamese in Arcadia.   You'll like it.  Were you in the Vietnamese class while you were at Fr. Perez's OLHC?



There are many Vietnamese at St. Boniface in Anaheim.  So what?  Should AgnusRoma go to Anaheim for classes to be among others who speak the same mother tongue?  

I learned something very important at St. Boniface in Anaheim.  I learned why there was a War in Vietnam in the first place.  The reason there was ever a Vietnam war is because the Devil cannot STAND to hear the Rosary chanted in the heavenly tones that they do.  It is a sound that is unforgettable.  It is a piece of heaven itself.  Our Lady has touched the hearts of the Vietnamese people, and this treasure of the Vietnamese chanted Rosary is the consequence.  And I don't think that a good recording exists anywhere, unfortunately.  One thing's for sure:  now that north and south Viet Nam are Communist, the public chanting of the Rosary (that's when it is mind-bogglingly beautiful) is no doubt a capital crime.  


.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Thorn on March 01, 2014, 10:54:04 AM
Are you OK, Neil?
You call me a LIAR simply because I said that all the other churches were too far??!!  All the other churches ARE farther than Arcadia EXCEPT for OLHC which IS controversial, NOT because I say so & my personal reservations, BUT because MANY OTHERS have a problem with him not having a bishop & other reasons  - which means that he's controversial - right?  Jorge the Humble is controversial as well because so many Catholics find problems with him too.  All I did was suggest that Arcadia would be a better match for them since they HAD ALREADY LEFT OLHC FOR WHATEVER REASON & 45 minutes on the freeway isn't that bad. So how does that make me an awful person & a LIAR?   Talk about calumny, detraction, pride run amuck  & generally bad manners!!!  What's up with you that you got so agitated over my respectful post?   Thou protesteth too much methinks.

Meanwhile I await your explanation about his TWO bishops.  Care to help the confused on that?

Not to agitate you further by daring to correct your majesty, but the poster's name is AgnEsRoma.

 
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: AgnesRoma on March 01, 2014, 04:27:00 PM
I believe many Catholic left the church because of changes.  at least they are confused.  many Catholic today like I was do not know what is Sin what is not.  long before in 1990's , when I only knew Novus Ordo,  I stop going to confession because priest kept telling me "that is Not Sin", "that is not sin", for many things I confess.   I heard several people telling same things, that they too stop going confession.  I suppose, one need to find a church or priest, who at least absolve you.  now, church I go confession do not say that.

reason, we start to going to Diocese Latin Mass  over OLHC.  because  OLHC church have different rule if person can take communion or not.   I understand, one must know Traditional Catholic teaching to take communion at OLHC.    required level of knowledge of Traditional Catholic is different of one priest to other.   it was all right at one mass that we take communion, but not from other mass from different priest.  so we start to going to Diocese mass.  because we met requirement to take communion at Diocese mass.  and later it  become difficult for us to find out which Mass is offered by which priest,   and Diocese Latin Mass is about same distance from OLHC,  Latin Mass at St Mary by the sea,  and Latin Mass at St John the baptist,  all 3 are about same distance and time take to drive from where we live.
so when we did not know or was not sure which priest offer mass, we just went to Diocese mass.  and going to OLHC become less frequent as time pass.
so if  we are to go to OLHC, first we must find out schedule.  OLHC is good church, teaching are very good,  classes are very informative,  just it become inconvenient over schedule issue for us.  as I stated in previous post, we are sort of new to Catholicism because of long break, and still learning.  


Quote from: Neil Obstat
.

This is an interesting post:

You have received the grace of perception, having been away for a number of years and now you are shocked by the changes that you see all at one time.  This grace is something to be thankful for!

When they raise their arms and speak, it is during the Our Father, which normally comes after the Consecration.  Traditionally, only the celebrant prays the Pater Noster.  The Newmass has the whole congregation saying it, and the charismatics (started 1965 during Vat.II) make it into some kind of "experience" that they get excited over.  It is not unlike the seeking of mystical experience that "evangelical protestants" and Medjugorje groupies like to do.  We are not supposed to seek after being titillated and entertained by religion.  It is not about seeking such pleasures.

Traditionally, when we go to church we are supposed to be able to seek a quiet place to find communion with God on a personal level.  It is a God-centered orientation that we look for and take comfort in finding.  

There is another thread with a video from a diocese parish (Good Shepherd) in the midwest where they do all these things and more, and they're proud of it!  They say "this is what makes our faith community unique!"  So now, being "different" is thought to be a GOOD thing.  That's the unclean spirit of Vat.II in action.  Before Vat.II, the Mass was the same everywhere in the world and all the restaurants and shops were different.  Today, all the Newchurch Newmasses are different all over the world, but McDonald's is the same.  IHOP is the same.  Macy's is the same.  Wal*Mart is the same.  You can get the same Coca-cola in France that you can in Australia or Canada or Tierra del Fuego or Okinawa.  But the Newmass will be different, perhaps unrecognizable one to the next.

I heard, somebody saying Pope Benedict 16th point at bottom of door, and said his authority end at line there.  

it is true that Dioceses Latin Mass do not teach much,  may be exception of  Fr. Michael Rodriguez in Texas.

I found Michael Voris had guest asking Pope to admit SSPX and other similar churches into communion.   hope, this will happen.

we probably plan to go to OLHC in Garden Grove, if she can get confirmed through them at Arcadia.  we have been switching churches about every 6 months, so it is about time to switch again.   OLHC is only 5 miles from us.




There are millions of people all over the world who would love to have a Mass center like OLHC, only 5 miles away from their home.  You don't know how blessed you are, AgnusRoma!


You have the grace of discernment and the grace of a nearby chapel.  Some would say you have the whole universe in the palm of your hand.  

(I embedded the video, below, for you)

Quote


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/embed/6e9G5U4GFbk[/youtube]



http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/2014/02/pope-francis-and-sspx-opportunity.html



AgnusRoma, don't bother trying to understand poche's posts because you'll only get closer to being as confused as poche is.

.[/quote]
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Frances on March 01, 2014, 09:08:18 PM
 :dancing-banana:
Can't go to a certain mass because Fr. X doesn't allow certain people??????  Can't go to another because you have to pass a written test????   Yet another demands mental assent to error.  None of these is  "catholic!"  It is the essence of protestantism!  Each autonomous church makes its own faith.  Those who don't measure up are rejected.  
If you wouldn't go to a protestant church, why go to a supposedly catholic church under these conditions?  Obviously, these poor posters are cast off sheep, put out of the sheepfold and left to fend for themselves by evil shepherds.  
Are these not the present-day versions of those faithful described in the epistle to the Hebrews, as ill-clad,  wandering about in mountains, dessert, and in caves?  
A very small number of faithful Catholics have the true Mass and the Sacraments.  We are incredibly blessed and privileged.  We run risk of losing what we have by infighting, sniping, and worst of all, by scandalising those who would come to the faith from approaching Our Lord.  
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Thorn on March 01, 2014, 10:57:20 PM
Frances, AgnesRoma's post was a bit confusing.   Yes, I think one priest at OLHC said one thing about communion & another said something else. That church,sadly, has problems.   But as far as the written test - that (I think) is in reference to the SSPX.  I think that you must pass a test to see if you know the material before you can be confirmed.  Whether that test is written or oral I don't know.  EVERYONE must be tested, not just AgnesRoma.  I do believe that's standard procedure, isn't it?  That's why I didn't think that they should be rushing into Confirmation, but to be better prepared.  After all, you're being asked to be soldiers of Christ!  
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Luker on March 02, 2014, 12:02:29 AM
Hello AgnesRoma

I just went through what you are going through a couple of years ago.  I did the 'RCIA' in a novus ordo diocese but converted promptly to Tradition and now attend a SSPX chapel.  I would recommend you follow the advice received here and find a good traditional chapel either SSPX, CMRI, or FSSP whichever offers orthodox teaching and the true sacraments.  

I was already reading about tradition and the Tridentine Mass while I was converting, but I thought "oh well, I am almost done this RCIA thing, I'll just sort it out after"  My honest opinion is to RUN, not walk to the nearest traditional chapel! It will be much better for you and your wife in the long run! GET the Traditional and orthodox teaching and traditional rite of confirmation! You will be happy you did!

Luke
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: AgnesRoma on March 02, 2014, 02:37:28 AM
test is refer to SSPX at Arcadia ,  to get confirmed.  a  woman at SSPX Arcadia told me one of the condition is to pass the test for adult confirmation.

at OLHC what I understand each priest can set and decide what rule that who can take communion or not.  some priest allow us to take communion, some wanted us to learn more about traditional teaching, before we take communion at his mass.    I do agree we do not know everything about traditional teaching.  

so , we were going to OLHC on the Sunday,if Mass offered by the priest allow us to take communion. And went to Diocese Mass, on the Sunday when the mass is  offered by the priest do not allow us to take communion.
however, we got out of sync after a while, and did not know who is offering the mass on that Sunday, so we start to go to Diocese Mass more often.  and now, we found out Church in Irvine ( St. Thomas More ) offer Latin Mass on every second Sunday, so we start to go there every second Sunday.

Quote from: Thorn
Frances, AgnesRoma's post was a bit confusing.   Yes, I think one priest at OLHC said one thing about communion & another said something else. That church,sadly, has problems.   But as far as the written test - that (I think) is in reference to the SSPX.  I think that you must pass a test to see if you know the material before you can be confirmed.  Whether that test is written or oral I don't know.  EVERYONE must be tested, not just AgnesRoma.  I do believe that's standard procedure, isn't it?  That's why I didn't think that they should be rushing into Confirmation, but to be better prepared.  After all, you're being asked to be soldiers of Christ!  
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: AgnesRoma on March 02, 2014, 02:59:42 AM
that is very Good.   I am also convert in 1993.  my wife is born and baptized  Catholic as infant, but stop going to church in her 20's ( 1980's )

when I was taking RICA class.  our teacher was theology professor from Notre Dame University,  his catechism was much more  traditional compare to today's Catechism taught by liberal lay person.  and the Priest had knowledge , while lay person does not have as much knowledge as priest and often Lay person teach wrong which are  actual against Catholic teaching.   my RCIA priest  always explained difference before and after Vatican 2.  
it seems like , today's RCIA is more of social club, they like to discuss what we think and feel about it.  problem that we are attending such liberal class is that our opinion of Catholic teaching are very different and often exactly opposite from what lay teacher is teaching , so we becoming sort of outcast. and my wife says our teacher is getting irritated from us.  I think our lay teacher was not expected people like us show up in his class.  my wife did not know much about Catholicism at until 2011, but between class offered at OLHC in Garden Grove, and Michael Voris , she learned a lot in relatively short time of 3 years.  now she read book like Anne Katherine Emmerich, St Augustine, so on.  light bulb turned on several years ago for her.  because, before that time she never care much about religion or Church.
now, she is concern about her eternal soul.

we never had opportunity to attend Latin Mass until 2011.
Internet is great things, I can learn so much from Internet.  I can read Papal encyclicals, Canon Laws 1983, 1917 or even older.  we learn a lot from Michael Voris video, we signed up for $10 a month membership , and have been watching for 3 years now.

unfortunately, we don't have SSPX or FSSP in within 1 hour drive.  we have OLHC near , and rest of Latin Mass are all Diocese.
most other parts of US 60 miles is a short trip, but here in Southern CA, 60 miles can take more than 2 hours because of traffic congestion, and it is unpredictable.

thanks for reply.

Quote from: Luker
Hello AgnesRoma

I just went through what you are going through a couple of years ago.  I did the 'RCIA' in a novus ordo diocese but converted promptly to Tradition and now attend a SSPX chapel.  I would recommend you follow the advice received here and find a good traditional chapel either SSPX, CMRI, or FSSP whichever offers orthodox teaching and the true sacraments.  

I was already reading about tradition and the Tridentine Mass while I was converting, but I thought "oh well, I am almost done this RCIA thing, I'll just sort it out after"  My honest opinion is to RUN, not walk to the nearest traditional chapel! It will be much better for you and your wife in the long run! GET the Traditional and orthodox teaching and traditional rite of confirmation! You will be happy you did!

Luke
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: PG on March 03, 2014, 12:49:18 PM
Neil Obstat - I am sorry for taking a swipe at you.  I just hate reading from computer screens, and some of your posts are way too long/repetitive for what material is actually there.  It pushes me over the edge.  It is still however no excuse.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Thorn on March 23, 2014, 01:53:18 PM
Well, Neil, it's been almost a month now since you posted that Fr. Perez has TWO BISHOPS & I asked for an explanation.  Instead of an answer you posted some nasty things about me.

Trust me, there's more than just little ol' me wondering about this TWO bishops thing.  Care to clarify?  The silence is deafening and rather strange.  You usually post at the drop of a hat.  Did you regret posting about 2 bishops?  Did Fr. tell you to leave it alone?   Is it true?  Who are these 2 bishops and why does he have 2?  I think we deserve to know what's up with that.  AgnesRoma deserves to know what kind of church you're pushing them to join.
Thanks
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: InfiniteFaith on March 23, 2014, 03:30:20 PM
Quote from: AgnesRoma
Hello, we live in Southern California , Orange County, CA
my wife signed up for Adult Confirmation Class at near by church ( Diocese church )
and we have been taking about 4 weeks of this class now.

here is the problem we have.

Adult Confirmation Class is taught by Lay Person, not priest.
and he teach very liberal Catholicism.  such as, gαy is OK, everybody go to Heaven, using Father Barron's video.  

he also use that Pope said "who are there to judge gαy" as that he suggest now Catholic church tech ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ are no longer sin, so on.

he says this at end of every class we had.

it is painful to listen to Father Barron's talk on Video, and as much painful to listen to Adult confirmation lay teacher's very liberal opinion.  

his class is questions and answer session, often we answer that apply to Latin Mass, but not Novus Ordo mass.

such as what is the first reading ? "Epistle ?"  "What is That ?"  
"what priest wear under vest during mass ?", "Alb" "No"  I did not know Novus ordo priest do not wear Alb.

so on.  and we often answer wrong because of our unfamiliarity with Novus Ordo Mass. and tradition.

my wife say , our teacher is start to get irritated with us.

we are not sure, if we should continue to attend this adult confirmation class or not at this point.

do you all have any suggestion.

we usually attend Latin Mass offered by Diocese in Orange County, CA
but, we are possibly thinking about get confirmation from SSPX, but nearest SSPX church is in Alahambra, more than 1 hour away.




I personally believe that people who say ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity is genetic and OK should be lined up on the firing squad. I have also had a priest tell me that before too. He was trying to say that in the case that ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity is genetic (which it is not) then ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity is ok. There is absolutely nothing that says that it is genetic other than gαys who want to be accepted for their lifestyle. And then for some strange reason non-ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs say the same thing even though they have no idea what its like to have ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ feelings and thoughts.
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Thorn on March 23, 2014, 04:57:38 PM
The burning question still is:  What 2 bishops is Fr. Perez under & who are they???
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Thorn on March 24, 2014, 01:35:21 AM
Calling Neil Obstat!   CALLING NEIL OBSTAT!!  Are you here or did you disappear?  HELLO!
Can you answer the question so we can put it to rest?  What's the problem?
Title: Adult Confirmation Class in Novus Ordo Church
Post by: Thorn on March 30, 2014, 05:51:37 PM
Keep silent, Neil.  That gives me & others the answer to the questions about Fr. Perez.