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Author Topic: Acupuncture is Demonic  (Read 4407 times)

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Offline BTNYC

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Acupuncture is Demonic
« on: October 03, 2014, 08:34:25 AM »
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  • I can hardly believe I even need to start a thread like this on this forum, but having seen a poster here recommend it to another, I searched CI for posts referring to acupuncture and am stunned to see such a dearth of condemnations of the practice - indeed, there are more than a few recommendations of it!

    That acupuncture does nothing at all of any standard Western medical value is obvious - the idea that simply inserting needles into the skin should have any affect for good or ill on, say, a fatty liver, a migraine headache, or an addiction to cigarettes is an absurd affront to basic common sense.

    Yet, those who submit themselves to this bizarre procedure usually sheepishly reply along the lines of "but it makes me feel better." That it does, I have no doubt. Anyone willing to run to the arms of a Mongol sorcerer in order to aleviate his ailment is also desperate enough for a cure that a placebo effect is sure to manifest itself after receiving the "treatment."

    But there's an even graver reason to avoid acupuncture, beyond its being a superstitious sugar pill.

    What is acupuncture purported to do? How does the procedure claim to affect the human body? Well, it is claimed that the needles redirect one's "chi" or "life energy" though the body's various "meridians" in order to treat the afflicted site. How does one reconcile this nonsense with Catholic teaching? What is man? Man is a creature made in the Image and Likeness of God, comprised of the union of a physical body and a rational soul. What room is there in that dogmatic definition for "Chi," a "life energy" manpulable by needles (or heated cups) for the purpose of healing?

    What defense can a Catholic offer for acupuncture that cannot also be used to defend yoga, reiki, chakra, enneagrams, transcendental meditation or any other of the unholy host of demonic eastern pagan practices that have been stupidly embraced by ignorant westerners since the dawn of the damnable "New Age?"

    Perhaps these practice really have a substantive healing effect on the body... If they do that is all the more reason to avoid them, for the demons will be more than happy to grant health to the body of one who is willing to hand over control of his soul in return.

    Flee from this devilry as you would from the Devil himself.
         


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Acupuncture is Demonic
    « Reply #1 on: October 03, 2014, 09:30:14 AM »
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  • 1) Western Medicine is garbage.

    2) accupuncture and chi are not necessarily religious concepts.  Even Aristotle and St. Thomas referred to the concept of an animal soul that permeates and governs the body.  accupuncture has something to do with how the nervous system all ties together.  Whether or not it's effective, or how effective it might be, is a different story.


    Offline BTNYC

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    Acupuncture is Demonic
    « Reply #2 on: October 03, 2014, 10:32:37 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    1) Western Medicine is garbage.

    2) accupuncture and chi are not necessarily religious concepts.  Even Aristotle and St. Thomas referred to the concept of an animal soul that permeates and governs the body.  accupuncture has something to do with how the nervous system all ties together.  Whether or not it's effective, or how effective it might be, is a different story.


    1. Ok. So if diagnosed with Diabetes or Appendicitis, I would hope you'd put your money where your mouth is and shun insulin injections and appendectomy for the "garbage" they are. Presumably, you'd then get yourself to some Chinaman's voodoo hut to be stabbed with needles. Good luck with that.

    2. "Not necessarily religious concepts?" Well when it comes to something like the possibility of dabbling in false religion, that kind of hazy lack of distinction isn't going to cut it.

    Show me where St. Thomas advocates a manipulation of the animal soul for medicinal ends. The onus is on you to explain how such a practice does not constitute a magical attempt to control spiritual forces inherently beyond man's control.

    It is a spiritual practice born of pagan spirituality. How does a Catholic defend this? On what grounds do you oppose Yoga, or chakra, or enneagrams? Or do you oppose them at all?

    This discovery of a Trad subculture devoted to (or at least apologetic of) New Age practices is truly shocking and scandalous to me.

    Offline BTNYC

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    Acupuncture is Demonic
    « Reply #3 on: October 03, 2014, 11:58:07 AM »
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  • Quote from: The Catholic Encylopedia, in its article on Magic,


    Catholic theology defines magic as the art of performing actions beyond the power of man with the aid of powers other than the Divine, and condemns it and any attempt at it as a grievous sin against the virtue of religion, because all magical performances, if undertaken seriously, are based on the expectation of interference by demons or lost souls. Even if undertaken out of curiosity the performance of a magical ceremony is sinful as it either proves a lack of faith or is a vain superstition.


    Western Medicine, while it may indeed by corrupt by an exagerrated materialism, is at the very least, by virtue of its materialsm, a discipline that confines itself to performing actions within the power of man, like cutting out a diseased appendix, or injecting insulin into a person whose body can no longer produce its own.

    The manipulation of "life energies" to medicinal effect is something entirely "beyond the power of man," and something which, since it is a practice born of a culture whose cults are diabolical idolatry, to the extent that it is successful, is so due to "aid of powers other than the Divine."

    Acupuncture meets in every way the Catholic definition of magic. It was born in pagan darkness and arrived in the West on the tide of the satanic New Age Movement. Western Medicine, for all its faults, is a corruption of a science that was once wholesome, having been born in the far nobler culture that produced Aristotle and nutured (until the Enlightenment at least) within the Catholic cultures of Christendom. Spurning a corrupted (but once good) science in favor of an inherently wicked act of diabolism as an "alternative medicine" is no "alternative" at all for a Catholic. Evil trees cannot produce good fruit.

    Offline Matthew

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    Acupuncture is Demonic
    « Reply #4 on: October 03, 2014, 12:12:34 PM »
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  • It is said that the Chinese have preserved more of the Primitive Revelation (the storehouse of knowledge possessed by Adam) than any other people on earth.

    What other cultures speak about dragons? They did exist. The Chinese have been around for a very long time as a continuous culture.

    What about Martial Arts? These are similarly mysterious. I've seen things that it's hard to explain with a purely materialistic explanation. Striking a stack of bricks from the top and choosing which one will explode? It doesn't exactly sound as primitive as "I hit it, it breaks" nor is it necessarily the work of demonic power. Or touching someone in a certain spot and temporarily paralyzing them, or making them weak. There might be some kind of nerve or energy point that is being manipulated.

    Notice that you can't tickle yourself? Why is that? Maybe because your own energy short-circuits, or completes the circuit in some way? Or why does it feel better when you touch a spot on your body that hurts?

    Just with a bit of thought, I can see the basis for Acupuncture.

    Just because something is mysterious doesn't mean it's "the devil". That is the classic reaction of any primitive people to a medicine or technology they don't understand. Just watch any sci-fi film!

    Mystery doesn't equal demonic. That's what the enemies of our religion say about Catholics in the Middle Ages -- that the Church was against science or scientific truth.

    When it comes down to it, we Westerners who grew up with Western medicine find ANY alternative therapy to be "hokey". But that doesn't make it so.

    The United States has one of the worst Infant Mortality rates in the world! And something like 40% of full-term pregnancies result in C-Section -- the worst rate in the world. Think about it: western doctors (obstetricians) would have you believe that the whole system of giving birth just "doesn't work". Something with a 40% failure rate doesn't work! Well I'll tell you what doesn't work: modern (western) medicine.

    So we obviously have something to learn from "the dissenting opinion".

    As for acupuncture, I haven't used it myself, but I'd have to say I trust it more than Big Pharma any day.

    Also, you're exaggerating Our Lord's saying about trees and fruit.

    If that is to be taken in the literal sense in every case, then the Chinese wouldn't be able to produce a good tablet, phone or anything else. They're an evil (Communist) tree, right? And a good tablet is something "good". So obviously you're applying that saying too broadly.

    For that matter, an evil man (virulent anti-Catholic atheist) could do many good things, and could produce many good things -- machines, software, foods, medicines, he could perform life-saving operations, etc. -- all considered "good fruit". Maybe he can still produce good fruit in the material realm? But, again, it would seem that Our Lord's saying can't be applied so broadly.
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    Offline BTNYC

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    Acupuncture is Demonic
    « Reply #5 on: October 03, 2014, 12:24:58 PM »
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  • I think it's time for a break from posting here.

    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #6 on: October 03, 2014, 12:26:35 PM »
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  • Also, your distinction about "within the power of man" is a false one.

    Someone in the middle ages would have thought antibiotics to be "outside the power of man" as well, because they didn't understand germ theory.

    "within the power of man" is a moving target that changes with man's collective advances in medicine and technology.

    Right now Man even manipulates DNA (albeit in a crude, ham-fisted manner...).
    That certainly isn't the devil, even though it seems to be something we shouldn't be messing with. I'd have to admit it's within Man's power, since he's doing it.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Acupuncture is Demonic
    « Reply #7 on: October 03, 2014, 12:28:45 PM »
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  • Quote from: BTNYC
    I think it's time for a break from posting here.


    That might be, but I still must say OH PLEASE.

    Because you might be wrong about something? Because you've found an argument?

    Hey, this has happened to me too. I'm pretty sure it's happened to all of us at one point. You win some, you lose some.

    No point getting all bent out of shape about it.

    Besides, why not rebut my argument instead of "taking your toys and going home"?

    I'm being 100% reasonable and objective here. Giving rational reasons. I never called you a single name, nor did I raise my voice once.

    What excuse do you have for running off? That you might be wrong?
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    Offline ClarkSmith

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    Acupuncture is Demonic
    « Reply #8 on: October 03, 2014, 12:37:16 PM »
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  • Acupuncture doesn't work. No point in getting worked up over a silly topic.

    Offline BTNYC

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    Acupuncture is Demonic
    « Reply #9 on: October 03, 2014, 01:08:03 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew


    Besides, why not rebut my argument


    Fair enough. I owe you at least that, I suppose.

    Quote from: Matthew


    Someone in the middle ages would have thought antibiotics to be "outside the power of man" as well, because they didn't understand germ theory.

    "within the power of man" is a moving target that changes with man's collective advances in medicine and technology.




    So then the manner in which Acupuncture works is some technologically advanced art which we have yet to comprehend?

    Then can the same be said for Yoga? Chakras? Reiki?

    Or, perhaps the plainly self evident fact that these disciplines - like acupuncture and like Kung Fu, while we're at it - come from a pagan culture steeped in demon worship counts for something and we can infer with even just a modicuм of common sense that what we're dealing with are not advanced technologies beyond our understanding, but spiritual practices developed by pagan cultures?

    DNA manipulation, antibiotics, etc. are no different from simple tooth extractions and limb amputations in that they work with and on material matter. Acupuncture and the like claim to use material implements to affect spiritual matter - that has far more in common with the magician and his wand than it does with the surgeon and his scalpel.

    I honestly can't believe I have to argue this with anyone here. And despite your claims to being "100% reasonable and objective" about this (belied by your illogical comparisons of what is objectively a magical act of pagan mysticism to the old Arthur C Clarke "Science is magic to the ignorant" dictum), I wonder if you might have the intellectual honesty to admit that your ability to be "reasonable and objective" about this subject might be compromised by your own admitted personal affection for Oriental culture. with all due respect, I don't find your arguments much different than Roscoe's Beetles boosterism, or the many other attempts at rationalization regularly made by Trads in defense of their own pet attachments to the non-Catholic world.

    I mean, I liked Bruce Lee movies and Akira when I was a kid too. But at some point the man must put away (fan)boyish things.
     
    Do you oppose Yoga? Or Reiki? Or Chakra wands? If so, why? If not, what makes acupuncture and kung fu exceptions to whatever makes them objectionable?


    Offline Disputaciones

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    Acupuncture is Demonic
    « Reply #10 on: October 03, 2014, 01:37:45 PM »
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  • I always thought acupuncture relied on more scientific things like the needle exerting pressure on certain body parts which cause x effect, not on "redirecting energy" and stuff like that.

    I saw Jet Li in a movie put one on the neck of someone and the person instantly went to sleep. Don't know if that works though.


    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #11 on: October 03, 2014, 01:44:06 PM »
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  • Because I'm not a materialist, I believe there is more to the human body than a mere collection of cells. There has to be some kind of controlled energy there as well.

    Chiropractors manipulate the spine; perhaps there are some that can manipulate our energy flow?

    I'm just not going to knee-jerk dismiss something just because
    A) I don't understand it, and/or
    B) It's foreign compared to what I'm used to

    How do you explain phantom pain?

    The human body is so complex that modern man can only stare at it in awe. It heals itself, for example. All you have to do is stimulate healing. Get the body to release the right hormones and signals and the body does most of the work. You do realize there are hundreds of hormones and substances in the human body, right? Only a few of them have a common name (Testosterone, estrogen, progesterone, adrenaline, oxytocin, endorphins)

    When dealing with something as wonderful as the human body, I wouldn't dismiss anything out-of-hand that could have an effect on the human body. If they were sitting you in a chair and reading Tarot cards, that would obviously be magic. But if they're poking precise areas, perhaps that stimulates a given response in the human body. I certainly don't know everything.

    We know that massaging the feet can have effects throughout the body. The body is a very cohesive whole, and a *very* complex machine.

    Unless you claim to fully understand it, in its most intimate workings (which no man alive can truthfully claim), how can anyone boldly dismiss what "does something" or what "does nothing"?  That is to say, when at least some kind of actual physical contact (pressure, needles, substances) is involved?
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    Offline BTNYC

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    « Reply #12 on: October 03, 2014, 01:50:53 PM »
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  • Quote from: Disputaciones
    I always thought acupuncture relied on more scientific things like the needle exerting pressure on certain body parts which cause x effect, not on "redirecting energy" and stuff like that.

    I saw Jet Li in a movie put one on the neck of someone and the person instantly went to sleep. Don't know if that works though.


    The entire premise is that a misalignment of "chi" or "qi" energies is the root cause of all bodily and psychological infirmities (whoops, there goes the natural effects of Original sin out the window) and that procedures - like acupuncture or cupping - which "realign" this energy can restore health. Kung fu is also based on this theory of harnessing "chi" energy.

    Now if, in their desire to cling to their pet attachments, some Catholics wish to rationalize away said attachment by ascribing some other mechanism to the supposed "healing" or by simply chalking it up to some amorphous, morally indifferent "mystery," then that is their privilege. But the fact remains that when one travels down that road, he robs acupuncture of the very theory upon which it is based. And if a thing needs such a radical and violent redefinition to be made acceptable, then what good is it in the first place?  

    There is not one argument in favor of acupuncture that cannot also be applied to other kinds of sorcery.

    Offline ClarkSmith

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    Acupuncture is Demonic
    « Reply #13 on: October 03, 2014, 02:05:26 PM »
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  • Quote from: ClarkSmith
    Acupuncture doesn't work. No point in getting worked up over a silly topic.


    lol, it is funny I recieved so many thumbs down for this  post. Apparently this pseudoscience is very popular on Cathinfo. What's next? Crystal healing?  :facepalm:

    Offline BTNYC

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    Acupuncture is Demonic
    « Reply #14 on: October 03, 2014, 02:13:31 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Because I'm not a materialist, I believe there is more to the human body than a mere collection of cells. There has to be some kind of controlled energy there as well.




    Yes. The soul is the animating principle of the body. And physical illness and death are the physical results of Original Sin.

    By God's Grace we have a cure for Original Sin - Baptism. But the physical effects of Original Sin (illness and death) remain. What is the "spiritual" cause of a tooth abcess? Or a blocked cardiac artery? The same as every other infirmity - Original Sin. It certainly isn't the result of "misaligned qi."

    What is the spiritual solution to these ills? Well, prayer for healing, of course - and God has indeed wrought miraculous healings at the hands of saints... But God alone effected the healing. It certainly didn't come about due to the saint willfully manipulating occult "energies" within the body.

    And as miracles are by very definition extraordinary, the oridinary method for treating physical maladies (if there is to be any ordinary method) is with physical cures - extracting diseased teeth, unblocking clogged arteries, etc. All methods clearly and unambiguously within the power of man.

    I am well aware that Western Medicine has its faults and is as corrupted by materialism as every other science has been. But I will take it, warts and all, over any kind of "medicine" that is unabashedly rooted in a spirituality that is fundamentally in contradiction to the Catholic Faith, nor will I violently contort common sense in an attempt to force a reconciliation between the two.