Author Topic: Act of Perfect Contrition (Read 15871 times)

2Vermont · « **Reply #15 on:** December 16, 2014, 04:26:25 PM »

Quote from: Tridentine MT

Quote from: 2Vermont
I have another question.

Can one go to confession with an Orthodox priest? If so, are they done in a similar fashion and would they even hear the confession of a Catholic?

An Orthodox priest is the closest thing I have to going to a valid priest locally.

How about Novus Ordo priests?!? Are they considered to be priests with all the faculties expected of a Catholic priest?

I have positive doubt about the validity of all of the Novus Ordo priests in my state. I do not know of any ordained in the Old Rite and I know that the most recent bishop was consecrated in the New Rite.

Cantarella · « **Reply #16 on:** December 16, 2014, 04:38:46 PM »

Before going on ignorantly speculating about the validity of the post Vatican II sacraments, please consider these facts: Luther’s heresy was declared in 1521 and until today, the Catholic Church has not declared invalid the sacraments administered by most of the Protestant bishops. When the Church baptizes a convert from Protestantism, she uses a conditional formula, which means that in the time span of some five centuries, she still has not decided whether the Apostolic succession ceased in those heretical sects and the sacraments administrated in them are valid or not.

Only regarding the Anglican sect that separated from the Catholic Church in 1534 did the Catholic Church declare its orders invalid and null. However, more than 300 years passed before Pope Leo XIII in 1896 wrote his Encyclical Apostolicae curae clarifying this question regarding the Anglicans.

Thus, if the Holy Catholic Church, which is the source of all wisdom, took and is taking so long to declare orders and sacraments administrated by known heretics as invalid, this teaches us that heresy does not automatically bring about invalidity of orders and the sacraments, as many unwisely conclude.

Cantarella · « **Reply #17 on:** December 16, 2014, 04:55:13 PM »

Quote from: Nado

Quote from: Cantarella
Before going on ignorantly speculating about the validity of the post Vatican II sacraments, please consider these facts: Luther’s heresy was declared in 1521 and until today, the Catholic Church has not declared invalid the sacraments administered by most of the Protestant bishops. When the Church baptizes a convert from Protestantism, she uses a conditional formula, which means that in the time span of some five centuries, she still has not decided whether the Apostolic succession ceased in those heretical sects and the sacraments administrated in them are valid or not.

Only regarding the Anglican sect that separated from the Catholic Church in 1534 did the Catholic Church declare its orders invalid and null. However, more than 300 years passed before Pope Leo XIII in 1896 wrote his Encyclical Apostolicae curae clarifying this question regarding the Anglicans.

Thus, if the Holy Catholic Church, which is the source of all wisdom, took and is taking so long to declare orders and sacraments administrated by known heretics as invalid, this teaches us that heresy does not automatically bring about invalidity of orders and the sacraments, as many unwisely conclude.

You are grossly mistaken. Here is a quote from the Catholic Encyclopedia (1908) that shows the actual history of how Catholic clergy have handled Protestant converts:

"Practically, converts in the United States are almost invariably baptized either absolutely or conditionally, not because the baptism administered by heretics is held to be invalid, but because it is generally impossible to discover whether they had ever been properly baptized. Even in cases where a ceremony had certainly been performed, reasonable doubt of validity will generally remain, on account of either the intention of the administrator or the mode of administration. Still each case must be examined into (S. C. Inquis., 20 Nov., 1878) lest the sacrament be sacrilegiously repeated."

And this differs from what I said, how?

Cantarella · « **Reply #18 on:** December 16, 2014, 05:12:19 PM »

Quote from: Nado

Quote from: Cantarella
Quote from: Nado
Quote from: Cantarella
Before going on ignorantly speculating about the validity of the post Vatican II sacraments, please consider these facts: Luther’s heresy was declared in 1521 and until today, the Catholic Church has not declared invalid the sacraments administered by most of the Protestant bishops. When the Church baptizes a convert from Protestantism, she uses a conditional formula, which means that in the time span of some five centuries, she still has not decided whether the Apostolic succession ceased in those heretical sects and the sacraments administrated in them are valid or not.

Only regarding the Anglican sect that separated from the Catholic Church in 1534 did the Catholic Church declare its orders invalid and null. However, more than 300 years passed before Pope Leo XIII in 1896 wrote his Encyclical Apostolicae curae clarifying this question regarding the Anglicans.

Thus, if the Holy Catholic Church, which is the source of all wisdom, took and is taking so long to declare orders and sacraments administrated by known heretics as invalid, this teaches us that heresy does not automatically bring about invalidity of orders and the sacraments, as many unwisely conclude.

You are grossly mistaken. Here is a quote from the Catholic Encyclopedia (1908) that shows the actual history of how Catholic clergy have handled Protestant converts:

"Practically, converts in the United States are almost invariably baptized either absolutely or conditionally, not because the baptism administered by heretics is held to be invalid, but because it is generally impossible to discover whether they had ever been properly baptized. Even in cases where a ceremony had certainly been performed, reasonable doubt of validity will generally remain, on account of either the intention of the administrator or the mode of administration. Still each case must be examined into (S. C. Inquis., 20 Nov., 1878) lest the sacrament be sacrilegiously repeated."

And this differs from what I said, how?

It's really only to say that if most Protestants should be conditionally baptized, then even more so the people baptized with the new rite of the Novus Ordo.

The point was to demonstrate that the Church herself exercises extreme prudence in handling the validity of Sacraments by declared HERETICS five centuries ago. Even more so, Catholics in the pew should exercise extreme prudence in declaring invalid the Sacraments granted by the Novus Ordo hierarchy in later decades who to all formal purposes have not been declared as heretics. Evidently sedes as Nado have trouble with this since they do not even know what heresy in the Catholic Church actually means.

Emitte Lucem Tuam · « **Reply #19 on:** December 16, 2014, 06:16:57 PM »

Quote from: 2Vermont

Quote from: Tridentine MT
Quote from: 2Vermont
I have another question.

Can one go to confession with an Orthodox priest? If so, are they done in a similar fashion and would they even hear the confession of a Catholic?

An Orthodox priest is the closest thing I have to going to a valid priest locally.

How about Novus Ordo priests?!? Are they considered to be priests with all the faculties expected of a Catholic priest?

I have positive doubt about the validity of all of the Novus Ordo priests in my state. I do not know of any ordained in the Old Rite and I know that the most recent bishop was consecrated in the New Rite.

2Vermont,

I am assuming you live in the state of Vermont. You are within, at most, a 3 (perhaps 4) hour drive from Sacred Heart Church in Lawrence, MA. The parish is run by a Dominican Order of brothers and has a priest on hand 24/7. They are independent of any and all Novus Ordo nonsense. Rent a car, borrow a car, take a bus and drive the 3-4 hours to Lawrence, MA, at least for your Easter duty. The Brothers and the resident priest will receive you warmly and you will be able to receive VALID Sacraments at Sacred Heart. Call the rectory and see if they can set something up for a stay at Sacred Heart or help you with accommodations. The Brothers at Sacred Heart are a Godsend. You can google Sacred Heart Church to get directions, phone numbers, email addresses etc. If you are a sincere Catholic, they will help you.