Author Topic: About the SSPX and St. Mary's rules  (Read 2525 times)

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Offline Matthew

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About the SSPX and St. Mary's rules
« on: December 09, 2006, 01:41:01 PM »
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  • There was a discussion about St. Mary's telling a student to close his blog (because that is their policy now -- no personal websites for the students there)

    The discussion swerved into talking about the SSPX itself.

    I posted a pretty big post about this issue, so I thought I'd post it here too.
    ------------------------------------

    I agree that the SSPX isn't infallible, especially the individual priests and members. Like any legitimate branch of the Catholic Church, you have saints and sinners.

    However, I support the SSPX because their charter -- what they stand for -- is rock-solid. Again, I am following the wise advice to overlook particulars and stick to principles.

    The SSPX is a legitimate order of the Catholic Church, which is fighting for not only the defense of Tradition and the TLM, but the complete overthrow of Modernism and other modern errors. That is something I can believe in and fight for. I would be foolish to expect to meet only perfect people in the SSPX -- but I'll tell you what -- I can expect to meet more wise (and intelligent, pious, what have you) men and women there than in any other group. The odds are better, so I'll take those odds.

    I hope you understand what I mean. I also imply that there are good people who do not attend SSPX chapels. But I believe it is the best solution for a Catholic trying to get by today -- though it's a sloppy 2nd to "Catholic Church united under a traditional pope and cardinals -- i.e., a Catholic Church not in crisis".

    When that choice is denied to us, ALL OTHER solutions are going to be sloppy at best. When that is considered, I think the SSPX is doing quite well.

    I have met BOTH Fr. Angles and Fr. Post. I am not omniscient, but I can say that neither of them exhibited "bad behavior" -- so if you concede that you just want them to clean up their act, I can tell you that they did so, and years ago at that! So much for that issue.

    As for the "St. Mary's rules" issue, I would point out that they are a private school, and can set whatever rules they wish. If you look into most private schools, they have all kinds of seemingly illogical rules. Schools are meant to set rules and be strict. Remember, too, that you can't make an exception for ONE GUY who isn't letting his website interfere with his academic life. Schools can't be "nice" and make exceptions... a line must be drawn, and that usually is the rule itself.

    I heard a story about "evil nuns" in the 1960's slapping a boy for opening his milk before the blessing before meals. But it was justified -- if they allowed it, then would they allow a boy to take a bite? If they allowed that, would they allow a boy to sit down and begin eating? And so on. With a large group of kids, you pretty much have to be strict or you have chaos.

    I think the distaste for such rules comes from the liberalism which is all around us. And anyone who says they have none inside them is lying to themselves, or isn't very good at entering into themselves. I got that from Fr. Iscara -- he knows liberalism, and he told the seminarians that they almost certainly were somewhat tainted by it, and their job is to understand liberalism well, so they can root it out of themselves.

    As an interesting tidbit, there are VERY FEW works in English on Liberalism. There are many in French, Spanish, etc. (both of which Fr. Iscara speak) but about the only one in English is "Liberalism is a Sin", published by TAN.

    Rousseau's fingerprint is also to be found here. He was completely against "external laws" which attempted to control one's feelings and impulses. He considered such laws to be destructive of our freedom. Rousseau is another big "maker of the modern mind" who has highly influenced the modern world in which we live.

    In Christ,

    Matthew
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    Offline lefebvre_fan

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    About the SSPX and St. Mary's rules
    « Reply #1 on: December 10, 2006, 10:22:25 AM »
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  • I think that's very true about liberalism having deeply penetrated each of us. For instance, when my fellow students around me dress or behave in an indecent or offensive manner, I usually say to myself, "as long as it doesn't affect me, let them do what they will". But in essence, I'm thereby sanctioning and condoning this sort of behavior. It's pretty hard to avoid in our modern world, though, which is completely infested with liberalism.
    "The Catholic Church is the only thing which saves a man from the degrading slavery of being a child of his age."--G. K. Chesterton


    Offline Telesphorus

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    About the SSPX and St. Mary's rules
    « Reply #2 on: January 31, 2012, 03:27:07 PM »
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  • While St. Mary's can have the rules it wants, that doesn't mean that these SSPX schools are to be trusted.

    Max Krah was (or still is) on the board of an SSPX girls school.

    Should I trust SSPX schools?

    Decisions about blogs and such should be made in the bosom of the family.  

    I don't have a problem with the St. Mary's policy in this instance, but when there are not good social norms established about public behavior, as is the case in this modern society, then any outfit that purports to be "different" can quickly become rigorist.

    I think moving to St. Mary's is not a sound choice.

    Offline Matthew

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    About the SSPX and St. Mary's rules
    « Reply #3 on: January 31, 2012, 03:35:11 PM »
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  • I don't advocate everyone move to St. Mary's, but for a different reason.

    We can't all just move to St. Mary's and let the rest of the world go to hell.

    SOMEONE has to take care of Churches and hold the torch of the Faith in other places around the country. There is also something to be said for "If God put you there, maybe he wants you there."

    Is EVERYONE called to be a Kansan just because the SSPX started a college and community there?

    Let's face it -- if all good Catholics went to St. Mary's, we'd basically be letting the rest of the country go to hell. Who would convert the Californians, Texans, etc.?
    Who would set a good example, answer their questions?
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    Offline Elizabeth

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    About the SSPX and St. Mary's rules
    « Reply #4 on: January 31, 2012, 03:38:48 PM »
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  • That reminds me, the Society is building a new seminary in Virginia!!!



    Offline Matthew

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    About the SSPX and St. Mary's rules
    « Reply #5 on: January 31, 2012, 04:14:01 PM »
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  • Quote from: Elizabeth
    That reminds me, the Society is building a new seminary in Virginia!!!



    Yes, I heard.

    It's to replace the one in Winona, MN., which has grown too small.

    Great -- so when the poles shift (or the nukes start dropping -- mostly on the two coasts, since that's where most of the US population lives) the SSPX will lose its only American seminary.

    The one in Winona was high on "Stockton Hill" so it probably would survive any "pole shift" flooding. Likewise, it would probably survive WW3 since there aren't any good nuclear targets nearby. They had a nice basement everyone could hang out in, so even nuclear fallout from other areas wouldn't be a problem.

    The good Bishop even had a farm, orchard, garden, etc. which is all gone now.

    But Bishop Williamson was aware of such things -- I'm pretty sure that most SSPX priests are not like him (unfortunately).

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    Offline s2srea

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    About the SSPX and St. Mary's rules
    « Reply #6 on: January 31, 2012, 04:23:47 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    I don't advocate everyone move to St. Mary's, but for a different reason.

    We can't all just move to St. Mary's and let the rest of the world go to hell.

    SOMEONE has to take care of Churches and hold the torch of the Faith in other places around the country. There is also something to be said for "If God put you there, maybe he wants you there."



    I wonder if this has something to do with the good number of trads being from California on this forum :laugh1:

    Offline Elizabeth

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    About the SSPX and St. Mary's rules
    « Reply #7 on: January 31, 2012, 04:26:35 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew


    Great -- so when the poles shift (or the nukes start dropping -- mostly on the two coasts, since that's where most of the US population lives) the SSPX will lose its only American seminary.


      Don't forget about the Jesuits who survived Hiroshima. And they'll be on a mountainous area.  



    Offline s2srea

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    About the SSPX and St. Mary's rules
    « Reply #8 on: January 31, 2012, 05:01:33 PM »
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  • One of my aunts moved to St. Mary's a few years ago. They stayed there for about two but moved to She has 5 children, the youngest a girl. I haven't seen my cousins for about 3 years, but they flew back here for Christmas this past year. I was talking with one of my cousins, Michael, and asked him about his thoughts on his experiences in St. Mary's.

    I was actually surprised. He essentially hated the school, but loved the Church, people, and St. Mary's itself. I asked why he disliked the school so much. He said they were too controlling. "They would look through your backpack; they separated the boys and girls to the extreme; the wanted to control you." I think what surprised me most, was that Michael told me he actually wanted to move back to St. Mary's! His two brothers, not so much; they were more indifferent about going back.

    As I listened to him, I couldn't help but think that these things were not wrong, and actually Catholic, but that my cousin's had grown up in public schools all their life, and throwing them into a the SSPX school at St. Mary's was probably such a shock to them, it wasn't really a wonder that they had so much disdain for the practices there. They've been brought up with so much 'freedom', that when they got there, they were unable to recognize the Catholicity of the school's practices. If they were born and raised in St. Mary's, I'm certain it would have been a different story. They're good boys, and naturally good hearted. I hope they keep the faith.

    Offline s2srea

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    About the SSPX and St. Mary's rules
    « Reply #9 on: January 31, 2012, 05:04:01 PM »
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  • Quote from: Elizabeth
    Quote from: Matthew


    Great -- so when the poles shift (or the nukes start dropping -- mostly on the two coasts, since that's where most of the US population lives) the SSPX will lose its only American seminary.


      Don't forget about the Jesuits who survived Hiroshima. And they'll be on a mountainous area.  



    You mean they were in the mountainous area in Hiroshima? Nice! Hopefully the nukes hit when I'm at home! I'm about 80 miles outside LA, but am 5,500 feet up!

    If I'm at work, I'm toast!

    Please let it be my day off, please let it be my day off, please let it be my day off! :pray:

    Offline s2srea

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    About the SSPX and St. Mary's rules
    « Reply #10 on: January 31, 2012, 05:08:37 PM »
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  • Edited:

    Quote from: s2srea
    One of my aunts moved to St. Mary's a few years ago. They stayed there for about two but moved to Texas last year for my uncle's work. There was little work in St. Mary's. She has 5 children, the youngest a girl. I haven't seen my cousins for about 3 years, but they flew back here for Christmas this past year. I was talking with one of my cousins, Michael, and asked him about his thoughts on his experiences in St. Mary's.  


    Offline Elizabeth

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    About the SSPX and St. Mary's rules
    « Reply #11 on: January 31, 2012, 05:12:47 PM »
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  • Quote from: s2srea
    Quote from: Elizabeth
    Quote from: Matthew


    Great -- so when the poles shift (or the nukes start dropping -- mostly on the two coasts, since that's where most of the US population lives) the SSPX will lose its only American seminary.


      Don't forget about the Jesuits who survived Hiroshima. And they'll be on a mountainous area.  



    You mean they were in the mountainous area in Hiroshima? Nice! Hopefully the nukes hit when I'm at home! I'm about 80 miles outside LA, but am 5,500 feet up!

    If I'm at work, I'm toast!

    Please let it be my day off, please let it be my day off, please let it be my day off! :pray:


    They'll be in a mountainous area of Virginia for pole shifting, and they'll survive the nukes the way the Jesuits did at ground zero in Japan. :gandalf:

    Offline s2srea

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    About the SSPX and St. Mary's rules
    « Reply #12 on: January 31, 2012, 05:14:20 PM »
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  • Quote from: Elizabeth
    Quote from: s2srea
    Quote from: Elizabeth
    Quote from: Matthew


    Great -- so when the poles shift (or the nukes start dropping -- mostly on the two coasts, since that's where most of the US population lives) the SSPX will lose its only American seminary.


      Don't forget about the Jesuits who survived Hiroshima. And they'll be on a mountainous area.  



    You mean they were in the mountainous area in Hiroshima? Nice! Hopefully the nukes hit when I'm at home! I'm about 80 miles outside LA, but am 5,500 feet up!

    If I'm at work, I'm toast!

    Please let it be my day off, please let it be my day off, please let it be my day off! :pray:


    They'll be in a mountainous area of Virginia for pole shifting, and they'll survive the nukes the way the Jesuits did at ground zero in Japan. :gandalf:


     :pray: May I be in the state of grace and faithful to our lady for the latter.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    About the SSPX and St. Mary's rules
    « Reply #13 on: January 31, 2012, 05:25:00 PM »
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  • Quote
    As I listened to him, I couldn't help but think that these things were not wrong, and actually Catholic


    That's a dangerous attitude to have.

    What's actually Catholic and what's cultish and totalitarian is not something you can judge by your gut instincts.  There has to be principle and real tradition to back it up.  This is where traditionalism starts to be sort of like "Civil War re-enactment." - just without the authenticity.


    Offline InfiniteFaith

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    About the SSPX and St. Mary's rules
    « Reply #14 on: January 31, 2012, 05:36:37 PM »
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  • I don't believe that the Catholic Church should ever compromise for the sake of more modern times.

     

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